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Old September 22nd, 2012, 12:18 PM   #1
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Default Proposal 12-1, The Emergency Manager Law

Okay, so this is the only one that I am stuck on which way to vote.

I see why it is needed, you have all of these cities that were run very poorly, and are now up the creek without a paddle about how to get out of their money problems. One person is appointed, and fixes things, to the best of their abilities and gets the city turned around, at least financially. They are appointed by the governor, who was elected by the people to run the state and do all the duties that come along with the position.

On the other hand, the Emergency Manager was never elected by the people of that city. The city council, and the mayor, who the people of that city elected, are stripped of their power, and in some cases, stripped of any pay that went along with their duties. The Emergency manager can sell just about anything that they feel is necessary to balance the budget. The Emergency Manager can void a union contract, which I am not sure should be right.

Thought and arguments for and against are welcome.
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Old September 24th, 2012, 03:49 PM   #2
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That one is a tough call for me as well.

I guess the perspective I try to take is a person living in that city. For an emergency manager to take over obviously the local government has failed me for quite some time, repeatedly. If someone can come in and make things right, I think I would be all for it.

But I do hate the idea of the state having that much power over my local government. That's where I have my hang-up on this.

I'm still on the fence about this one. I think the intentions are good, but just like anything else this can be abused and this law would be in effect for any future governors. If Granholm had started assigning emergency managers with her agenda I would not like that.
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Old September 24th, 2012, 05:45 PM   #3
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Ask Allen Park how putting all their eggs in the Movie Business turned out . . . I'm all for taking away power from idiots. I'm not sure who has enough sense in this age that can actually use the power for good instead of financial gain. . .
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Old September 24th, 2012, 06:22 PM   #4
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Ask Allen Park how putting all their eggs in the Movie Business turned out . . . I'm all for taking away power from idiots. I'm not sure who has enough sense in this age that can actually use the power for good instead of financial gain. . .
The same could be said about the State, as they allowed a loan from the teacher's retirement to build the movie building in Pontiac. That has missed one payment already.
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Old September 24th, 2012, 06:50 PM   #5
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I'm going to have to get one of my friends on these gigs, then we can loot a city like Detroit of all of the gems. I'd say if your not sure, vote no, nothing will change.
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Old September 24th, 2012, 07:02 PM   #6
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I was up in the Two Hearted area shortly after the fire. Aside from logging all the burned timber, want to know what I saw?

New life. Sometimes you gotta let shit burn.
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Old September 24th, 2012, 09:06 PM   #7
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I live in a town with an emergency manager. I think it is democracy at its finest. Its a social responsibility issue. As citizens of the state, we have a responsibility to the state at large so when the local government screws up, the state should take over the running of a city temporarily. Its just like raising children.

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Old September 24th, 2012, 09:34 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by InTeRnEt_RyAn View Post
I'm going to have to get one of my friends on these gigs, then we can loot a city like Detroit of all of the gems. I'd say if your not sure, vote no, nothing will change.
Voting no reverts things back to the old law. Voting yes keeps things as they are now.
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Old September 25th, 2012, 09:32 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Tie Dyed View Post
Okay, so this is the only one that I am stuck on which way to vote.

I see why it is needed, you have all of these cities that were run very poorly, and are now up the creek without a paddle about how to get out of their money problems. One person is appointed, and fixes things, to the best of their abilities and gets the city turned around, at least financially. They are appointed by the governor, who was elected by the people to run the state and do all the duties that come along with the position.

On the other hand, the Emergency Manager was never elected by the people of that city. The city council, and the mayor, who the people of that city elected, are stripped of their power, and in some cases, stripped of any pay that went along with their duties. The Emergency manager can sell just about anything that they feel is necessary to balance the budget. The Emergency Manager can void a union contract, which I am not sure should be right.

Thought and arguments for and against are welcome.
If you aren't doing the job you got hired for what happens? Generally, you get stripped of your pay and duties and someone else gets brought in to do the job. If the local governments want to retain control then they should manage their funds appropriately. As for the contracts, if you work for a company that is going bankrupt then the contracts would also be subject to the same type of action. This is just responsibility on a larger scale.
For the people who say no, then what is the remedy? Should the state bail the locals out and just let them continue being irresponsible so we can bail them out again in another short period of time?
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Old September 25th, 2012, 09:50 AM   #10
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I'm a fan of local government without big brother. If the locals screw it up, they need to fix it. However with that, if they can't get it right and are bleeding the state dry, something needs to change. IMO, stop giving them money and let them figure it out.

I know that sounds overly simplistic but at the end of the day our founding fathers set up our society to be governed locally.
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Old September 25th, 2012, 04:20 PM   #11
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I know that sounds overly simplistic but at the end of the day our founding fathers set up our society to be governed locally.
This.

who does this manager answer too??? what makes anyone believe that a state appointed manager is going to be better than a locally elected official?? who is the person who decides if he/she IS doing a good job??

My city had "managers" for a long time in lieu of a mayor that actually had power. These managers were appointed by the local city council so at least the local interest was considered, but we started voting for strong mayors sometime during the 90's.


I'm also thinking it only takes exactly 1 "wack job radical" governor to start destroying a whole bunch of communities in record time by appointing a couple dozen of his buddies all across a state.
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Old September 25th, 2012, 04:34 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by kerryann View Post
If you aren't doing the job you got hired for what happens? Generally, you get stripped of your pay and duties and someone else gets brought in to do the job. If the local governments want to retain control then they should manage their funds appropriately. As for the contracts, if you work for a company that is going bankrupt then the contracts would also be subject to the same type of action. This is just responsibility on a larger scale.
For the people who say no, then what is the remedy? Should the state bail the locals out and just let them continue being irresponsible so we can bail them out again in another short period of time?
Amen.

At least something like this gives the power to fix a continually failing situation to an entity that may actually do something about it.

The irritating thing is the people that liver in and run these failed cities want to have their cake and eat it too. They don't want "our" influence in their policies and practices, but the do want to continue to throw "our" good money after bad.

However like Jim said bigger government control isn't a good thing but unfortunately we live in the age of zero personal responsibility and simply expecting these cities to do the right things will never happen.

I like the idea of cutting their life lines but how well had that worked for welfare and unemployment? This may well be the best chance we have at moving towards being able to hit the disconnect for these cities.
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Old September 26th, 2012, 06:56 PM   #13
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No one has mentioned the motivational effect of this law. Speak softly, and carry a big stick. Make the EM law (or whatever the alternative) a huge stick. The more painful the EM law, the more incentive the local communities have to fix their own problems.

1. Is the current EM law working as an incentive for localities to solve their own problems?

2. Is there a better alternative? (Not just general statements or ideas from armchair quarterbacks, we are talking fully thought out, detailed plans that could be implemented and executed with a minimum of confusion.)

3. Do the current EM rules work better as an incentive for localities to fix their own problems than reverting back?

4. If an EM has to be appointed, do the existing rules make resolving the situation easier, quicker and/or more efficient than with the old rules?
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Old September 26th, 2012, 06:59 PM   #14
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Cutting off aid to an individual works most of the time. Cutting aid off to a city just doesn't work. Police, fire, and emt services still need money let alone all the other city services like water and stuff. Financial managers work great because they are a temporary manager and they don't have any ties to the community so they can make the hard calls.

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Old September 27th, 2012, 09:43 AM   #15
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Cutting off aid to an individual works most of the time. Cutting aid off to a city just doesn't work. Police, fire, and emt services still need money let alone all the other city services like water and stuff. Financial managers work great because they are a temporary manager and they don't have any ties to the community so they can make the hard calls.

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Flint is in my opinion an example where the EM law is showing mixed results.

The city has less than 60 officers patrolling the shithole. The state's answer is to bring in more MSP.

MSP costs more than even the County Sheriff, and consists predominately of officers that have no real stake in the matter as they don't live in the area.

While some level of complacency and laziness has developed in all too many city governments with big union contracts, 20 and out pension plans and the like - a semi-local officer has a lot more incentive to protect and serve the local community than a ramp rooster forced to relocate from another area of the State.

Added bonus, you can get more officers on the street by hiring local than dealing with the elitism of the MSP. Some MSP Desk Jockey was recently quoted as referring to MSP as a Cadillac and local Sheriff as a Chevy.

Sorry, this is Flint. They don't need Cadillac they need a SHITON of Chevy's - and the elitism representative of all too many in MSP is just another example of how out of touch they often are.

So, here we have a State EM... that will probably appoint funds to bring in more MSP... all the while using the local funds.
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