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Old September 21st, 2012, 03:56 PM   #41
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As my pops would say,not every animal and living being is going to go to heaven, heaven is a spiritual place, the Original Indians were said to be the closest to their faith because they seen it at such a different view than most others, it's such a hard thing to put your finger on, I am a Christian, and I will stand behind my religion, but I do see things from a different perspective, and I believe everyone is entitled to this, because when you really look at it the base structure for most religions stem from, being generous, going the extra mile when you can sometimes barely get by yourself, and there is a higher being with a purpose for you on this planet, it's all about how your notion is conceived in your heart and mind.

I'm glad this has been brought up, it's not often you can have a conversation about religion without someone flipping their lid...feels good to get it out I'm the open.

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Old September 21st, 2012, 03:58 PM   #42
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Aber61's last sentence screams a thousand words. Nicely put!
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Old September 21st, 2012, 04:04 PM   #43
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Actually he is following the ones set out by Christ, so he knows without a doubt when he gets there he will be accepted with open arms.
If you don't follow those same set of defined morals you'll be the one sent packin'
The Word is very clear in its meaning.
The acceptance of Jesus Christ is first, then the rest will be reveiled to you.
Lol.
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Old September 21st, 2012, 04:27 PM   #44
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Lol.
Play nice now, put your Christian hat on.
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Old September 21st, 2012, 04:28 PM   #45
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Societal and cultural means are subject to change over time. What is considered acceptable today may have landed you in prison 60 years ago. To take it one step further, Hitler's actions were not necessarily considered evil if you were a starving unemployed German. And the Islam's killing people in Lybia today feel that it is the right thing to do. So, who decides which of these actions will create "good" or "bad" kharma, or will land you in heaven or hell? Without a defined moral compass, man can justify that any action is "good". Strictly speaking, if someone truly believes that our only purpose on earth is to procreate, then that person could justify rape and incest as a means of continuing his genes. I personally don't ascribe to that undefined set of morals.
Is your sense of "right and wrong" purely dictated by what you believe to be Gods rules? Is you adherence to those rules base purely on your fear of Gods punishment? If it were proven tomorrow that there is no God would your "moral compass" lose direct?

I find my main moral driver is to not cause suffering in others.(another zen concept) While in practice what this means may change over time, the principle remains the same.
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Old September 21st, 2012, 04:39 PM   #46
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Actually he is following the ones set out by Christ, so he knows without a doubt when he gets there he will be accepted with open arms.
If you don't follow those same set of defined morals you'll be the one sent packin'
The Word is very clear in its meaning.
The acceptance of Jesus Christ is first, then the rest will be reveiled to you.
What if I don't accept Jesus Christ but I accept God? I've been told Jesus is God in a different form so if I believe in God, I'm also believing in Jesus by default because God is Jesus and Jesus is God.
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Old September 21st, 2012, 04:52 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by aber61 View Post
Actually he is following the ones set out by Christ, so he knows without a doubt when he gets there he will be accepted with open arms.
If you don't follow those same set of defined morals you'll be the one sent packin'
The Word is very clear in its meaning.
The acceptance of Jesus Christ is first, then the rest will be reveiled to you.
You're assuming that Jesus rules are the ones that will be used, because of course you cannot conceive of anything different. But what if it's Mohammad, or Buddha, or Zeus' rules that mattered?
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Old September 21st, 2012, 04:53 PM   #48
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Play nice now, put your Christian hat on.
I am not a Christian so fukc off.
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Old September 21st, 2012, 04:54 PM   #49
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Play nice now, put your Christian hat on.
I don't think he has such a hat. And besides, in my OP I said he didn't have to, but that you have to put on your nomex undies.
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Old September 21st, 2012, 04:54 PM   #50
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You're assuming that Jesus rules are the ones that will be used, because of course you cannot conceive of anything different. But what if it's Mohammad, or Buddha, or Zeus' rules that mattered?
I like the Roman Greek and Norse Pantheon of gods. IMO anyone who made humans has to be one sick fucker.
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Old September 21st, 2012, 04:56 PM   #51
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I am glad to see that many more Christians here being bold in thier faith.
Many of you guys here know that I do profess my faith In Jesus Christ and have done so since joining this site.
I do belong to a Pentecostal Church, at our church we believe in the bible from cover to cover and everything in between.
There are some here that do have different thoughts and ideas as to what you think things should be, but God's word is very clear what He asks from us. It is not about us and what we think because our ways and thoughts are not His ways and thoughts. Scripture is clear in reguards to us not leaning on our own understanding.
He does give us freewill to accept or deny Him, but we need to remember that there are always consquences for our actions.
amc78cj7- I do not remember you being so bold in your faith. It is really good to see. Keep up the great job
Here's where I struggle with this. Every church seems to think that they are the only ones who are interpreting God's word correctly. For example, I believe in God, Jesus, communion, heaven, hell, etc. However, when I go to the Catholic church, they don't allow me to take communion because I was not baptized in their church. WTF? Why? Because my baptism didn't include the specifics of theirs? Well, I go anyway. To me, it doesn't matter when you kneel, bow, sing, say "praise God", etc. In my heart, it's all the same.
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Old September 21st, 2012, 05:02 PM   #52
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I don't think he has such a hat. And besides, in my OP I said he didn't have to, but that you have to put on your nomex undies.
Does the fact that I am not a Christian mean I am not a good person?
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Old September 21st, 2012, 05:12 PM   #53
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Does the fact that I am not a Christian mean I am not a good person?
Not at all.

Sadly, I have met many a Christian that I found not to be, in my opinion, a "good person".

And have met many non-Christian that I would consider a "good person".

And on the subject of morals, who is the "better person", someone who does the right thing because they believe in doing the right thing, or someone who does the right thing because they fear Gods punishment for doing the wrong thing?
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Old September 21st, 2012, 05:34 PM   #54
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Does the fact that I am not a Christian mean I am not a good person?
a good Christian would say, "God still loves you" - and also still pray for you despite you spitting in their face.

a judgmental (and thus "non-good Christian" in the eyes of most) will talk the talk, but not walk the walk. they won't invite you into their Church because you're not like them, or you don't dress like them, or you don't talk like them, or you don't bathe frequently enough, or well you get the idea.

the head pastor of the Church we attend is a self-described misfit - a co-founder of H.I.M. (Hogs in Ministry) - and is happier sharing the word/stories or just entertaining convicted felons in a maximum security prison than preaching to so called "church folks".

yes, you read that right. he and an outreach group of HIM members have toured a few Ohio prisons ministering to folks that the world has forgotten and turned their backs on.

in my humble opinion that man is a good man, and one that walks the talk. he would tell you with tears streaming down his face that he is a sinner, and a broken man and no better than any of those felons he ministers to.

I don't have that level of belief - but when I see people like that, or officer O'Rourke's wife speaking it makes me pause and reflect.

and yeah, I know that level of belief makes some people sneer, laugh, jeer and shake their heads
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Old September 21st, 2012, 05:44 PM   #55
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What if I don't accept Jesus Christ but I accept God? I've been told Jesus is God in a different form so if I believe in God, I'm also believing in Jesus by default because God is Jesus and Jesus is God.
John 3:16 come to mind, the only way to God is through His son Jesus

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You're assuming that Jesus rules are the ones that will be used, because of course you cannot conceive of anything different. But what if it's Mohammad, or Buddha, or Zeus' rules that mattered?

The other religions are false according to the one and only God, the one that created it all. There is no other book that we can learn from that was written over 2000 years ago and still applies today.
If a person does not have God in their life it is very difficult to explain how God works when He touches your life in a very real way. It is unexplainable to people who do not understand. All I can say is you need to ask Jesus to show you who He is and how He works.

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I am not a Christian so fukc off.
You did say you were in the other thread, but I guess you were not being truthful.


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Here's where I struggle with this. Every church seems to think that they are the only ones who are interpreting God's word correctly. For example, I believe in God, Jesus, communion, heaven, hell, etc. However, when I go to the Catholic church, they don't allow me to take communion because I was not baptized in their church. WTF? Why? Because my baptism didn't include the specifics of theirs? Well, I go anyway. To me, it doesn't matter when you kneel, bow, sing, say "praise God", etc. In my heart, it's all the same.
I can see where people have a huge problem with that. It can be and is very frustrating, i'm sure.
Maybe it is time to take a step back from the Catholic Church and look at different options.
Communion is important but if they do not allow you to take it there, what is stopping you and your family from taking communion at home? Jesus would still see it as being obedient, just not under the roof of a building. See the church is your body not the building. Once you accept Christ He resides in you, (you know this I am saying it for the ones that don't)
You are correct in saying that you do not need them to tell you when to sit, sing, knee etc. It is in your heart where it counts. Only God knows truly what is in a man's heart.



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Does the fact that I am not a Christian mean I am not a good person?
Not at all, you can be a great person and I'm sure you have a tender heart. You put up a wall made of all things and persons that have let you down and caused you pain over your life time and the only way you deal with it is to not let anybody in, to know the real man.
Ever hear of the term poser? When posing for a picture.
I do not mean this in a mean or insulting way, but you are posing as somebody you are not. I don't buy your hard calloused outlook for a minute. But that is how you deal with your demons(so to speak)by putting up a wall and not letting anybody know the real you.
Jesus knows who you are and knows your pain. He is the only one that can help you through your valley.
I do pray that He will touch you in such a profound way that your life will never be the same.
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Old September 21st, 2012, 06:03 PM   #56
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a good Christian would say, "God still loves you" - and also still pray for you despite you spitting in their face.

a judgmental (and thus "non-good Christian" in the eyes of most) will talk the talk, but not walk the walk. they won't invite you into their Church because you're not like them, or you don't dress like them, or you don't talk like them, or you don't bathe frequently enough, or well you get the idea.

the head pastor of the Church we attend is a self-described misfit - a co-founder of H.I.M. (Hogs in Ministry) - and is happier sharing the word/stories or just entertaining convicted felons in a maximum security prison than preaching to so called "church folks".

yes, you read that right. he and an outreach group of HIM members have toured a few Ohio prisons ministering to folks that the world has forgotten and turned their backs on.

in my humble opinion that man is a good man, and one that walks the talk. he would tell you with tears streaming down his face that he is a sinner, and a broken man and no better than any of those felons he ministers to.

I don't have that level of belief - but when I see people like that, or officer O'Rourke's wife speaking it makes me pause and reflect.

and yeah, I know that level of belief makes some people sneer, laugh, jeer and shake their heads
My mom prays for my well-being every day. Before I left the other day I let her say a prayer over me. Its not my way but it makes her feel good.
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Old September 21st, 2012, 06:19 PM   #57
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You did say you were in the other thread, but I guess you were not being truthful.
according to your own dogma I am still a Christian, just a fallen one. I don't consider myself one.




Not at all, you can be a great person and I'm sure you have a tender heart. You put up a wall made of all things and persons that have let you down and caused you pain over your life time and the only way you deal with it is to not let anybody in, to know the real man.
Ever hear of the term poser? When posing for a picture.
I do not mean this in a mean or insulting way, but you are posing as somebody you are not. I don't buy your hard calloused outlook for a minute. But that is how you deal with your demons(so to speak)by putting up a wall and not letting anybody know the real you.
Jesus knows who you are and knows your pain. He is the only one that can help you through your valley.
I do pray that He will touch you in such a profound way that your life will never be the same.
LOL. I would pee on you.
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Old September 21st, 2012, 07:15 PM   #58
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LOL. I would pee on you.
real mature Steveo
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Old September 21st, 2012, 07:18 PM   #59
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John 3:16 come to mind, the only way to God is through His son Jesus
So says your version of the book, but what if Vol III came out and said something different, but because you don't subscribe to it, you didn't get message?

I mean, he wrote the "old" and "new" testament. Who says he doesn't decide we need another book to figure it out?
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Old September 21st, 2012, 07:28 PM   #60
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So says your version of the book, but what if Vol III came out and said something different, but because you don't subscribe to it, you didn't get message?

I mean, he wrote the "old" and "new" testament. Who says he doesn't decide we need another book to figure it out?
Mohammad thought we did.
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