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Old September 21st, 2012, 11:16 AM   #21
Yotabalt
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Exacty,Your perfect path is up to a higher being, I'm not doubting god, just the crap that comes with the preaching and what not, just doesn't add up.

But yes wheather it be god, or any other higher being should control, just for the sake of if he created us he must have a place for us somewhere(aside from 6' under)
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Old September 21st, 2012, 11:21 AM   #22
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Maybe prayer is a form of meditation that allows us a clear head to manage our lives better. I don't know.

^^^^^Bingo. Well said White Rhino.
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Old September 21st, 2012, 12:10 PM   #23
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I agree with the deja vu thing to an extent... Seems like a lot more things seemed like they have happened before. I've had dreams that told me about my own future. Almost to the point of being extremely wierd. That being said, I was raised christian reformed in a private christian school through 8th grade.

Then I went to high school and my life vastly improved (those kids in my private school were and still most are a bunch of jerks, constant fights and everything was judged that you did or what you wore)

I haven't been going to the christian reformed church, just bouncing around. I have feelings of being watched, I have had occurrences with spirits or ghosts, I pray when I want/remember to.

Like started before I just try to do the right thing. I don't really believe in karma 100%, in the fact that people openly want bad things to happen to them, but that what you do effects your life positive ly or negatively. One should worry about his or her actions, not call out others for their actions (obviously it never hurts to reinforce or appreciate someones good deeds)


Just another dude trying to earn his keep and pay his dues.

Take it for what it's worth.

I also have a lot of interesting theories and concepts, not that I necessarily believe them all.

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Old September 21st, 2012, 12:23 PM   #24
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Maybe prayer is a form of meditation that allows us a clear head to manage our lives better. I don't know.

^^^^^Bingo. Well said White Rhino.
That's also the conclusion I'm coming to.

Pretty much every religion has some form of "prayer" and rituals. Most pray to some deity, and attribute any positive results from it to that deity. The zen practice I've been learning about doesn't focus on any deity, the meditation and other rituals and practices are all about allowing "a clear head to manage our lives better". It's about practices to help maintain better brain functioning. The effect it has had on my in the few short weeks I've been doing it have been profound. I'm much happier, less depressed, better about to cope with stress, better able to deal with others.

If I had been praying to a deity I would probably attribute these results to that deity, but I don't because I was not praying.

Then again, amc78cj7 could claim it's just all part of Gods "grand design".
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Old September 21st, 2012, 01:00 PM   #25
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Hey Kerryann. You believe then that you are possibly judged based on your actions and that may determine your outcome when you pass? If so, is it the sum of your actions? The mean of your actions? The final actions you make rather than the earlier life decisions? Do some weigh heavier than others? And how do we know what rules to play by? For instance, let's look at abortion. The doctor performing an abortion may be viewed by some as "good" by saving the mother, but viewed by others as "bad" by killing the unborn child. How would we know how this decision by the doctor may impact his/her fate?

Just curious on your thoughts.
All societies have rules for what is considered "good" or "bad". Many attribute these rules, and the judgment of compliance to them, to a deity. But if they worship a false deity, where have these rules actually come from.
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Old September 21st, 2012, 01:38 PM   #26
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That's also the conclusion I'm coming to.

Pretty much every religion has some form of "prayer" and rituals. Most pray to some deity, and attribute any positive results from it to that deity. The zen practice I've been learning about doesn't focus on any deity, the meditation and other rituals and practices are all about allowing "a clear head to manage our lives better". It's about practices to help maintain better brain functioning. The effect it has had on my in the few short weeks I've been doing it have been profound. I'm much happier, less depressed, better about to cope with stress, better able to deal with others.

If I had been praying to a deity I would probably attribute these results to that deity, but I don't because I was not praying.

Then again, amc78cj7 could claim it's just all part of Gods "grand design".
I have my cabin for just this purpose. I like to go up there, sit on the porch and listen to the earth. I don't like people and work and city living gets me strung out. I have to have outdoors time, hunting fishing and hiking. About the closest thing I have to prayer is my little ritual honoring the animal I have killed. I always say thank you.
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Old September 21st, 2012, 01:55 PM   #27
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All societies have rules for what is considered "good" or "bad". Many attribute these rules, and the judgment of compliance to them, to a deity. But if they worship a false deity, where have these rules actually come from.
Societal and cultural means are subject to change over time. What is considered acceptable today may have landed you in prison 60 years ago. To take it one step further, Hitler's actions were not necessarily considered evil if you were a starving unemployed German. And the Islam's killing people in Lybia today feel that it is the right thing to do. So, who decides which of these actions will create "good" or "bad" kharma, or will land you in heaven or hell? Without a defined moral compass, man can justify that any action is "good". Strictly speaking, if someone truly believes that our only purpose on earth is to procreate, then that person could justify rape and incest as a means of continuing his genes. I personally don't ascribe to that undefined set of morals.
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Old September 21st, 2012, 02:08 PM   #28
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Societal and cultural means are subject to change over time. What is considered acceptable today may have landed you in prison 60 years ago. To take it one step further, Hitler's actions were not necessarily considered evil if you were a starving unemployed German. And the Islam's killing people in Lybia today feel that it is the right thing to do. So, who decides which of these actions will create "good" or "bad" kharma, or will land you in heaven or hell? Without a defined moral compass, man can justify that any action is "good". Strictly speaking, if someone truly believes that our only purpose on earth is to procreate, then that person could justify rape and incest as a means of continuing his genes. I personally don't ascribe to that undefined set of morals.
I believe the difference is we as sentient beings can understand the difference between right and wrong. Its the one thing that separates us from animals. Your idea of right and mine may differ but we still have them. Look at the animal kingdom. Many animals basically rape each other. For a long time women had little choice in their husband. Father's would trade off their young teenage daughters to men older than them. Can you imagine being that girl? The church was OK with it though. IMO that's wrong.

BTW your Germany anecdote is poorly chosen. The people that were doing those things knew they were wrong but they did them anyway. Those starving unemployed Germans willingly did evil.
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Old September 21st, 2012, 02:26 PM   #29
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I believe the difference is we as sentient beings can understand the difference between right and wrong.
Per my examples and your examples, Man can decide (and truly believe) that something is "right" today, and 100 years later when social norms change the same action would be "wrong". So would the person committing the action 100 years ago have "good" kharma or "go to heaven" while the person 100 years later would have "bad" kharma or "go to hell"?
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Old September 21st, 2012, 02:26 PM   #30
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I grew up in a Catholic household. I've been around a lot of other religions. Pretty much feel they are all corrupt in one way or another due to the humans that run them, since humans aren't perfect. Letting one human judge other humans never seems to work out well.

My personal philosphy is to treat others as I want to be treated. It seemed to be the underlying message of what I learned as a Catholic, and what I've gathered from the better writings about most other religions. If that means I rot in hell when I die, so be it. It seems to go against what some of the Bible says, but other parts support. Same with many other religious documents.

I, too, take time to pray, or maybe like others, to meditate. Whatever you want to call it. Generally I try and look at how I act, and try to adjust my life so that my actions are inline with if I am treating others as I'd like to be treated.

Christians have shed as much blood over the years as many other religions. (Besides maybe the Budhists, I guess I've never read much about militant Budhists... seems against their fundamentals from what I've read, but maybe they've had a twisted Budhist monk go off the deep end at some point in history. but I digress...)

A Christian calling out Muslims is just another divisive tactic to try and show that one group has somehow become "more perfect" than another. As a whole, the human race is a bunch of morons that do things in the name of something, that has nothing to do with what we define as that something. I love Christians who spout something about "let he who is perfect cast thy first stone" then in the next breath condemn a whole group of people to hell for picking the wrong religion.

Kinda like the day a college roomate (Weselyn Methodist) asked me in passing "You grew up Catholic right?" and when I said yes told me I was going to hell because of it. Seemed a bit misguided to me.....
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Old September 21st, 2012, 02:41 PM   #31
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Per my examples and your examples, Man can decide (and truly believe) that something is "right" today, and 100 years later when social norms change the same action would be "wrong". So would the person committing the action 100 years ago have "good" kharma or "go to heaven" while the person 100 years later would have "bad" kharma or "go to hell"?
I do not believe in either so any repercussions would be societal. The evolution of our societies moral beliefs has been dependant on our economic and environmental situation. 100 years ago most people were subsistence farmers. In small tightly knit communities in order to maintain peace you need different values than our current situation.

Last edited by steveo; September 21st, 2012 at 02:46 PM.
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Old September 21st, 2012, 03:14 PM   #32
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I am glad to see that many more Christians here being bold in thier faith.
Many of you guys here know that I do profess my faith In Jesus Christ and have done so since joining this site.
I do belong to a Pentecostal Church, at our church we believe in the bible from cover to cover and everything in between.
There are some here that do have different thoughts and ideas as to what you think things should be, but God's word is very clear what He asks from us. It is not about us and what we think because our ways and thoughts are not His ways and thoughts. Scripture is clear in reguards to us not leaning on our own understanding.
He does give us freewill to accept or deny Him, but we need to remember that there are always consquences for our actions.
amc78cj7- I do not remember you being so bold in your faith. It is really good to see. Keep up the great job
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Old September 21st, 2012, 03:16 PM   #33
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Per my examples and your examples, Man can decide (and truly believe) that something is "right" today, and 100 years later when social norms change the same action would be "wrong". So would the person committing the action 100 years ago have "good" kharma or "go to heaven" while the person 100 years later would have "bad" kharma or "go to hell"?
The same happens with morals based on religion. Most Jews today don't live by the same rules as those of the time of Moses.
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Old September 21st, 2012, 03:20 PM   #34
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I have my cabin for just this purpose. I like to go up there, sit on the porch and listen to the earth. I don't like people and work and city living gets me strung out. I have to have outdoors time, hunting fishing and hiking. About the closest thing I have to prayer is my little ritual honoring the animal I have killed. I always say thank you.
Sounds like a nice place. So far my understanding of Zen is learning to have that same peace when you are around those people, at work, in the city.
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Old September 21st, 2012, 03:23 PM   #35
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Sounds like a nice place. So far my understanding of Zen is learning to have that same peace when you are around those people, at work, in the city.
Marijuana helps.
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Old September 21st, 2012, 03:24 PM   #36
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I personally don't ascribe to that undefined set of morals.
Who say's your set of defined morals is the right one? Wouldn't it suck if you got to the pearly gates, and got sent back to try again because you picked the wrong subset?
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Old September 21st, 2012, 03:28 PM   #37
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Marijuana helps.
...without drugs.
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Old September 21st, 2012, 03:39 PM   #38
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...without drugs.
I prefer the term herbal relaxer.
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Old September 21st, 2012, 03:39 PM   #39
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I bet we go to the same church.

Faith is believing with out proof. If you were able to prove or dis-prove the bible / Jesus / God then there would be no such thing as faith. Religion is and will always be a challenge. Besides that, God has control beyond what any human can comprehend. If he wants to put physical "proof" on earth that challenges the bible, then he can / will. Everything is put on this earth for a bigger reason than anyone can comprehend. Quit trying.
The Rock, or the River? (bet you thought I was going to say the Freedom Center eh?)

I come from a family full of engineers - it's in our nature to want to understand so it's against my nature to quit trying.
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Old September 21st, 2012, 03:53 PM   #40
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Who say's your set of defined morals is the right one? Wouldn't it suck if you got to the pearly gates, and got sent back to try again because you picked the wrong subset?
Actually he is following the ones set out by Christ, so he knows without a doubt when he gets there he will be accepted with open arms.
If you don't follow those same set of defined morals you'll be the one sent packin'
The Word is very clear in its meaning.
The acceptance of Jesus Christ is first, then the rest will be reveiled to you.
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