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Old September 12th, 2012, 09:55 AM   #1
TJJEEP
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Dick Morris on Obama's tax plan

I received this email with a link to this video. I do not know how to verify any information he says in the video since he does not cite any references. I have no idea who Dick Morris is, but a google image search tells me it is him in the video and a quick bio on wikipedia does say he was a Clinton adviser.

"This is the man that helped get Clinton elected President twice, and Governor of AR three times. You should watch this video...this is NOT a "phony."
This is Dick Morris who used to work for the Clinton administration, he is a respected news contributor and author. He knows what he is talking about. He investigates before reporting etc.
This is going to affect everyone!"


http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=-wIfI2whjiM
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Old September 12th, 2012, 04:38 PM   #2
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Here comes the Tax man
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Old September 12th, 2012, 09:09 PM   #3
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He's either an idiot or a liar. His math is wrong.
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Old September 13th, 2012, 10:08 AM   #4
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How do you NOT know who Dick Morris is?

I am not watching the video because I could care less what Dick has to say, but you can disregard whatever he said as the rantings of a typical political hack trying to stay in the spot light.
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Old September 13th, 2012, 05:53 PM   #5
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It's funny how nowadays most people view someone who has the exact opposite views as they do as idiots, liars and hacks (among other things). There's just no way on earth any of them could actually be right about anything ever, because they they think like the "other side". If they were to tell you 100 different things, they are called wrong and/or lying on all 100 things, regardless of the proof they put forth or the knowledge they have in the area they are talking about.

Maybe, just maybe, if people would actually listen to what these people have to say once in a while we might not have half the messes going on in this country that we have these days.
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Old September 13th, 2012, 06:19 PM   #6
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That is the way debateing is done these days. They can't come back and counter the claims made so it's time for name calling.
They can't debate the facts at hand, so it's the old bate and switch, change the subject as a diversion then resort to calling names.
Its getting real old, the same old tricks.
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Old September 13th, 2012, 07:18 PM   #7
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We were all devalued today by the federal reserve. Qe3. The largest un stated tax. Unfortunately i belive what dick is saying. The people who do not pay taxes dont care to follow along or care if any portion is true. They just want there portion of the redistribution.
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Old September 13th, 2012, 07:52 PM   #8
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Injecting money into the economy and hopes it helps. There is something wrong here. It has not worked for the past 3.5 years, why do they continue to think it will help by dumping more money in a poor and unstable economy?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...stimulus-move/
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Old September 13th, 2012, 08:59 PM   #9
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I have no idea if the claims are real or not I wish he would have cited sources. Claiming that it's already in some legislature and proposed in other legislature should easily be backed up by facts.

If it were typical left v right rhetoric I would just dismiss it but he seems to be a democrat speaking against a democrat.
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Old September 13th, 2012, 09:27 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aber61 View Post
That is the way debateing is done these days. They can't come back and counter the claims made so it's time for name calling.
They can't debate the facts at hand, so it's the old bate and switch, change the subject as a diversion then resort to calling names.
Its getting real old, the same old tricks.
When I said he was either an idiot or a liar I was not "name calling", I was making a statement of fact. He either A) does not understand Obama's tax proposals and how tax brackets work and is thus an idiot or B) does understand these things but is intentionally miss stating and miss figuring the effect to deceive and scare people, and is thus a liar. No other possibility exists.

See my next post for examples.
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Old September 13th, 2012, 10:22 PM   #11
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Claim #1.

Obama will raise income tax rates from 35% to 40%, which will cause the tax on a couple making $250,000 to go up $12,500.

Sounds right... 250,000 x 5% (.05) = 12,500.

Why that's wrong:

First, I believe what Obama is planning is to let the top rate, which is now 35%, climb back up to the "pre Bush tax cut rate", which was not quite at, but near 40%. So he's close then right?

Well no.

The way tax rates work is that when you go into a higher tax bracket you only pay the higher rate on the amount that is over whatever threshold you past. So it's not 5% more on the entire amount, it's 5% more on whatever exceeds the next lower bracket.

It works like this:

MARRIED FILING JOINTLY
2012 FEDERAL TAX BRACKETS
Taxable Income:
Income Tax:
$0 - $17,040
10% of the amount over $0
$17,041 - $70,700
$1,740 plus 15% of the amount over $17,040
$70,701 - $142,700
$9,735 plus 25% of the amount over $70,700
$ 142,701 - $217,450
$27,735 plus 28% of the amount over $142,700
$ 217,451 - $388,350
$48,665 plus 33% of the amount over $ 217,450
$388,350 +
$105,062 plus 35% of the amount over $388,350

Source: http://tax.laws.com/tax-brackets , but I had to fix their chart. I guess even tax.laws.com can't get it right.

So they still have to pay more on whatever amount of their income lands in the top tax rate, right?

Well, no.

If you look at the numbers, the 35% tax rate that is going up starts at $388,350. So for a couple that makes $250,000 None of their income is even in the 35% tax bracket, so regardless of how high the rate for that bracket goes, their income tax will not go up at all, just as Obama promised.
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Old September 13th, 2012, 10:39 PM   #12
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What about 2013 taxes? I think he was referencing those.
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Old September 13th, 2012, 11:29 PM   #13
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Claim #2.

A couple making $250,000 will pay about $8000 more a year because Obama wants to make social security tax apply to all of their income rather than just the first $106,000*.

The math: $250,000 - $106,000 = $144,000 x 4.2% (.042)= $6048

Well, not $8000 but it is more right?

Not really.

If where talking about a couple, and they both make around the same amount, then they are both already paying the social security tax on the first $106,000 of their income. so the math look like this:

$250,000 -$106,000-$106,000= $38,000 x 4.2% (.042) = $1596.

Well not as much as he said, but still more right?

No.

Obama's actual plan calls for a "donut hole", where the first $106,000 would be taxed as now, but the amount from there to $250,000 would not be taxed, and any amount more than that would be taxed. (looking for source)


So the effect on a couple making under $250,000? Nothing, just as promised.

(* actually, $110,100 for 2012)

Last edited by brewmenn; September 13th, 2012 at 11:36 PM.
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Old September 13th, 2012, 11:33 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJJEEP View Post
What about 2013 taxes? I think he was referencing those.
Yes, he was talking about the change from 35% in 2012 to 40% in 2013. Tax brackets, while maybe adjusted for inflation other reasons, will still work the same way they have for about the last 100 years.
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Old September 13th, 2012, 11:52 PM   #15
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as for the rest of his claims about deductions he claims Obama will eliminate:

I can find no documentation as to which deductions Obama plans to reduce or eliminate, but likewise Romney says he will pay for his other cuts by reducing or eliminating some deductions, but refuses to list which ones.
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Old September 14th, 2012, 07:24 AM   #16
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@Brewmenn, I was by no way saying that you resort to name calling. You do conduct yourself for the most part quite level headed.
I do see that more and more liberals become hotheaded and resort to name calling when they can'y use facts to back thier position.
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Old September 14th, 2012, 07:48 AM   #17
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Bruce,
Thank you for spelling it out clearly.
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Old September 15th, 2012, 06:29 AM   #18
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My job, and the jobs of many others at the company I work for, depends on the super rich greedy people and corporations wanting to blow their extra cash on stuff that goes fast. Every tax hike they get affects me more than them. I am sure we could diversify to stay afloat if they stop spending but my hours/income would be cut drastically and the company would no longer be growing. The boss would have to sell his jet, thus making him grumpy. Then I would have to fly commercial the few times a year that I have to go somewhere for work. That would make me grumpy, on top of being broke and having to deal with a grumpy boss. Cut taxes for big business and the rich people who run them. Save me from being grumpy.
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Old September 15th, 2012, 06:34 AM   #19
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thanks brewmenn for spelling it out clearly. still don't do much to motivate me to keep busting my ass. i think we should have no income tax at all.
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Old September 15th, 2012, 07:18 AM   #20
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Quote:
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My job, and the jobs of many others at the company I work for, depends on the super rich greedy people and corporations wanting to blow their extra cash on stuff that goes fast. Every tax hike they get affects me more than them. I am sure we could diversify to stay afloat if they stop spending but my hours/income would be cut drastically and the company would no longer be growing. The boss would have to sell his jet, thus making him grumpy. Then I would have to fly commercial the few times a year that I have to go somewhere for work. That would make me grumpy, on top of being broke and having to deal with a grumpy boss. Cut taxes for big business and the rich people who run them. Save me from being grumpy.
I and my coworkers are in a similar boat. The owners of the company expect to take a certain amount of money out of THEIR COMPANY THAT THEY STARTED. We have a pretty nice bonus program which is based on "when we make more, you make more, when we make less, you make less". This has proven to be beneficial to the employees over the past several years. If the tax base changes and the owners have to pay more in taxes, it just means that the bonus pool for all of us will shrink. Yes, we will all still earn our standard wage, but our end of year income will decrease. This will impact every employee, top to bottom. In addition, it will possibly effect the growth of our company.

I don't understand how people don't realize that the trickle down effect is important.
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