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Old September 12th, 2012, 08:46 AM   #1
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Default Small pole barn... where to put the doors, and lift?

For those who have barms/shops already, I'm looking for input on a few details. I've put down a deposit, and will have my barn put up in about 2 months.

As of right now, its a 30x40x12ft walls. 1 man door, two 10x10 overhead doors.

For auto-shop type use, do you guys like/hate where your doors are placed? I can fit the barn in either orientaion, so I can put the doors on the short or long side.

It will not get a lift initially, but I plan for one when my bank account recovers. Where would you put it, based on the door locations? Like how far from the center of the lift to the door and to the back wall, etc.

Eventually will put heat into it, although not necessarily full time heating. Does insulation under the slab make a big difference?

Has anyone around here used (or found a source) for door cutouts? Seems like they are cheap and work well for under slabs, if you can find a source for them.
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Old September 12th, 2012, 09:03 AM   #2
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My door is on the end, I wish I had 2 on the side. I also suggest positioning the building so you can add on in the future.
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Old September 12th, 2012, 09:12 AM   #3
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My shop is 30x40 and I was planning on having two doors on the long side, but ended up doing a 16' door on the short side. The issue that I kept running into is with having the doors on the long side did not leave me with much room after pulling a vehicle in, and having areas for work benches, etc.

The nice part about having the door on the short side I am able to pull my dually long bed truck in and still have lots of room to work around it, or have my flatbed parked in front of the jeep with room to pull another vehicle in next to it.

I would recommend drawing out where you plan on having work benches, tool chests, etc (plan enough room to work around them) and see what layout you like the best. My shop also houses the snow blower and zero turn mower so those were taken into consideration when I built it as well.
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Old September 12th, 2012, 09:16 AM   #4
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Quote:
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My shop is 30x40 and I was planning on having two doors on the long side, but ended up doing a 16' door on the short side. The issue that I kept running into is with having the doors on the long side did not leave me with much room after pulling a vehicle in, and having areas for work benches, etc.

The nice part about having the door on the short side I am able to pull my dually long bed truck in and still have lots of room to work around it, or have my flatbed parked in front of the jeep with room to pull another vehicle in next to it.

I would recommend drawing out where you plan on having work benches, tool chests, etc (plan enough room to work around them) and see what layout you like the best. My shop also houses the snow blower and zero turn mower so those were taken into consideration when I built it as well.
This is another option I was thinking of, a man door plus a single 16ft x 10ft door on the short side.

If I put the doors on the short side, it is easier in the future to run a 10x40 ft lean-to style addition down the length of the building (could do one on either side, actually, as I can go up to 2400 sq ft). I am starting with just the 30x40 for budget reasons, and a few sub rules/cranky neighbors, to keep it on the smaller side to start.
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Old September 12th, 2012, 09:22 AM   #5
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Are you wanting to be able to drive thru the barn? If so I would put the doors off to one side on the ends so your lift can be one the other side.

I have a friend who has a 30 x 70 with end doors offset to the left side... his lift is inline with his doors and it makes it a pain to work around. He did it that way so he could work on his trailers. It is not ideal for his set up but it is what he chose to do.
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Old September 12th, 2012, 09:26 AM   #6
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i have a 36x54 i have a slider on one end aroll up straight across from that on the other end and then another roll up on the side....wish i woulda made the trditonal rollup doors a foot wider i have 8 ft wish it was 9...
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Old September 12th, 2012, 09:35 AM   #7
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I cant really to a drive-thru setup with my lot, so likely will have all doors on the same side. I could put the man door on a different side if it made sense.
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Old September 12th, 2012, 09:40 AM   #8
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My barn is 28 x 32, with 12'-4 walls. It is stick built.

It has two 10x10 overheads and one 3ft utility door.
I opted for engineered trusses so that I could get a cathedral ceiling over the hoist. The inside peak measures in at 14'-4".
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Old September 12th, 2012, 09:51 AM   #9
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put the doors on the long side and maybe one on the opposing side so you could drive through one spot if you wanted or open both up and get a good cross breaze. I have mine on the long side (30x40) and I love it I can move all my stuff in and out of the barn at anytime with out having to jockey shit around.
Your more than welcome to come over and have a beer and check out my set up to get ideas

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Old September 12th, 2012, 10:07 AM   #10
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What do you guys think about floor insulation? I don't see it having a heated slab, its something that I only work out there on sporatic weekends. THinknig a gas furnace and a wood stove maybe.

Debating if its better to take the insulation money and put it towards making the barn a little longer. Or if its better to insulate, and expand later.
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Old September 12th, 2012, 10:12 AM   #11
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I wish I would have put insulation under the concrete. On days with high humidity my floor sweats like crazy.
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Old September 12th, 2012, 10:19 AM   #12
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midwest weather, doors are ideal on the east end. I'd prefer 8' apart so 2 things could be worked on simultaneously, or I could work on a vehicle and not scratch my boat.

plan your shop and do the plugs in the work area every 6', or a quad box every 8'. plenty of circuits, #12 wire. welder/220 outlet(s) between the doors with a 50' extension cord. being able to weld on a trailer or something outside is great.

concrete pad, minumum 4", 6" is ideal with a plenty of steel mesh and some rebar. taper the floor to run to an exit point. sooo nice in the winter.

insulation in the floor isn't critical unless you're going with in floor heat. There was that guy on here selling 20 sheets or whatever for dirt cheap...
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Old September 12th, 2012, 10:47 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deerebowtie View Post
midwest weather, doors are ideal on the east end. I'd prefer 8' apart so 2 things could be worked on simultaneously, or I could work on a vehicle and not scratch my boat.

plan your shop and do the plugs in the work area every 6', or a quad box every 8'. plenty of circuits, #12 wire. welder/220 outlet(s) between the doors with a 50' extension cord. being able to weld on a trailer or something outside is great.

concrete pad, minumum 4", 6" is ideal with a plenty of steel mesh and some rebar. taper the floor to run to an exit point. sooo nice in the winter.

insulation in the floor isn't critical unless you're going with in floor heat. There was that guy on here selling 20 sheets or whatever for dirt cheap...
I agree and disagree with having the doors on the east side. My polebarn out back has the doors on the east side and it gets hot with no breeze in the summer since the wind generally blows from west to east. The barn I usually work in has doors on the north, east and west. When I leave the north door open I can catch a little breeze and the sun isn't beating in.
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Old September 12th, 2012, 11:19 AM   #14
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good friend has this:

2/6" construction on a 6" slab - even though he put in a scratch+dent furnace, he hasn't used it. In the coldest day in January, the insulation still keeps the interior in the low to mid 40s, which isn't exactly balmy but carhart's on while the minimal winter wrenching takes place and he's good.

perimeter has 110 and 220 outlets, as well as air something absurd like every 6' or 8'

the hoist placement for him makes it good for access from the rear large overhead door, he can still store his exmark, boat, kids mini bikes, etc on the left hand side of the hoist, park his truck just inside the double door - and allows him options for summer cross ventilation - especially with the 4 hunter ceiling fans running.

it was a 10 year project, with him hunting down clearance items, scratch and dent, trading labor for things like getting the plumbing for the Air done, the mountain of sheetrock, painting etc.

floor is done in sherwin williams commercial grade epoxy after mechanically scarified.




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Old September 12th, 2012, 12:08 PM   #15
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I don't possibly see how having the doors at the short end and having a hoist would work well in a shop that size (unless we are talking about a drive-through style). A typical hoist is going to be around 11' wide once you mount the hydro tank, etc. Lets say you leave 6' between one long wall and the hoist (enough room for a 2' workbench and walking space) then you only have 13' on the other side of the hoist. You are going to have 2' or 4' storage shelves on the opposite wall, so that leaves you with only 9' of space to park a vehicle (barely enough) or a 9' work area (barely enough again). So you're really only created a 30' wide, single lane shop. Then you have to deal with moving everything to get a vehicle on/off the hoist.

Move the doors to the long end, create one bay for a hoist, create another bay for an active work area/parking, and then you still have easy access to a storage area.
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Old September 12th, 2012, 12:26 PM   #16
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Why not put one door in the middle on the short side and put another door at the other end but on the long side and put your hoist at that door. Then you can put a lean to and a man door on the opposite long side.
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Old September 12th, 2012, 12:49 PM   #17
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I've come to the conclusion you could build a square barn and still be unhappy with what wall to put the doors on.
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Old September 12th, 2012, 12:52 PM   #18
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I've come to the conclusion you could build a square barn and still be unhappy with what wall to put the doors on.
one barn for storage, one barn for a shop!
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Old September 12th, 2012, 12:59 PM   #19
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one barn for storage, one barn for a shop!
X2 I have a 30x40 with a loft and I am planning to do 15'x40' off the back for parking vehicles in. than I can have the front section for shop space.
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Old September 12th, 2012, 01:54 PM   #20
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I don't possibly see how having the doors at the short end and having a hoist would work well in a shop that size (unless we are talking about a drive-through style). A typical hoist is going to be around 11' wide once you mount the hydro tank, etc. Lets say you leave 6' between one long wall and the hoist (enough room for a 2' workbench and walking space) then you only have 13' on the other side of the hoist. You are going to have 2' or 4' storage shelves on the opposite wall, so that leaves you with only 9' of space to park a vehicle (barely enough) or a 9' work area (barely enough again). So you're really only created a 30' wide, single lane shop. Then you have to deal with moving everything to get a vehicle on/off the hoist.

Move the doors to the long end, create one bay for a hoist, create another bay for an active work area/parking, and then you still have easy access to a storage area.
That was my main thought, too, and why I'm asking, since I don't have anything but an attached garage to work in right now.

I had been thinking to push the barn as close to the side yard setback as possible, but that would limit me from adding onto the back of it. I'm thinking now that I'd move it forward 10 ft to leave room for a 10x40 lean-to type addition out the back in the future.

Here's a pic of the location on the property. Behind the barn is woods, so there's no pass-thru possibilities. The doors will be facing north-west. I could maybe rotate them to due north, but thats about it. It cannot pass the front line of the house, and needs to be 15ft from the edges. It can't fit anywhere else on the property. I could fit 30x50, if I can afford it. This is where I could look at taking money from slab insulation and put it towards making it longer.



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