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Old July 15th, 2012, 03:59 PM   #21
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Kinda like the guy I saw not too long ago with a long barrel pistol with the holster tied down like Wyatt Earp. It just made me want to chuckle.
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Old July 15th, 2012, 07:55 PM   #22
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Exactly. Many of those that do open carry aren't the problem. However, it's very common at these gatherings to have some douchers that push their luck.

Then there is the issue with the post above about "dumb cops." Sure, their are some that are ignorant to the right to open carry. However, they have a job to do to protect all of society and when something is out of the ordinary they have a duty to react and find out what the hell is going on. Does that bother some of those that are open carrying? Most likely, but isn't that what they are out doing in the first place? Aren't they trying to spread awareness? Why make it a them against you battle? Why try to make the police look bad? Remember that most cops are very pro gun themselves, but are also bound to protect everyone and like it or not, but a group of jackwagons strolling around with long guns doesn't exactly stir images of comfort and safety to anyone.

Lastly, the argument about trying to desensitize the public to the sight of a gun is a waste at best and a complete lie at worst. Those that don't like guns don't care about what they look like. They just don't like them around. Period. Seeing them, and seeing people carrying them won't change their minds. In their minds, guns are the root of evil. They are what badguys use to commit crimes, and therefore shouldn't be in society at all. They know most people aren't using them to shoot others, but they also think that if we all turned our guns in then the bad guys wouldn't have them to use on us, so in effect we are just perpetuating the problem by possessing them in the first place.
Obviously the enviroment in which you live is quite different than the one Im in. To your statement about cops, I agree with you and there was no reason to make a comment about it as I wasn't saying they don't do their job just sometimes need to know their job.
Whos trying to desensitize? Its just the way the worlds become. Growing up Ive always heard from older people it was never an issue before. I don't like seeing ricers run around but thats no reason to ban them, just as because someone doesn't like seeing a gun doesn't give them the right to ban or or try to. Everyone has their opinion. And agreed they think things would be great having no guns but thats just in a state that will never happen, well unless marshall law is enacted and the military goes door to door.....
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Old July 15th, 2012, 08:12 PM   #23
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Obviously the enviroment in which you live is quite different than the one Im in. To your statement about cops, I agree with you and there was no reason to make a comment about it as I wasn't saying they don't do their job just sometimes need to know their job.
Whos trying to desensitize? Its just the way the worlds become. Growing up Ive always heard from older people it was never an issue before. I don't like seeing ricers run around but thats no reason to ban them, just as because someone doesn't like seeing a gun doesn't give them the right to ban or or try to. Everyone has their opinion. And agreed they think things would be great having no guns but thats just in a state that will never happen, well unless marshall law is enacted and the military goes door to door.....
You still miss the point.
First, there are entire libraries filled with laws and no cop will know every law. It's simple. They know laws they deal with regularly. Open carry is a relatively new (it's not but the movement sort of is) idea and not everyone has been brought up to speed on the issue. However, the law is fairly cut and dry like most laws. What's not cut and dry is the individuals actually doing it. Which is why there are the douchers carrying ARs as if on patrol for terrorists.
Second, carrying a simple handgun on your hip in many situations, or even a long gun in the woods and such is the norm and nobody is shocked to see it. The large packs of people that get together for these dinners and such at family restaurants carrying long guns is not the norm. The argument of spreading awareness and desensitizing the public to the sight of guns is a widely used argument by the open carry supporters. Frankly, if I was sitting at a Ponderosa and a bunch of people came in carrying rifles, I wouldn't exactly feel comfortable and I'm a gun guy. I have one on me at all times. There are just too many variables, and most of all, I don't know what sort of doucher is actually in control of the weapon in the first place. Many just think if they have a gun they somehow become a badass and they can now protect themselves and everyone else. WRONG. Thats not even legal in the first place, nor is it safe considering most people don't have any sort of actual training with the weapon. Hitting a target is not training either. Then there is the fact that many people carrying weapons exposed at walking around like it's nothing more than a cheap cellphone on their belt. I've personally witnessed on more than one occasion where a person is open carrying a handgun in a holster and Joe Public who happens to be standing very near them is eyeing it up and would have a very easy time removing the weapon from the holster and taking it. Granted, Joe Public isn't likely going to try that but you can bet Joe Dirtbag would. Why not just hand them a gun in the first place? Did you know that the leading causing of police officer shootings is by their own weapons? Weapons that they have had extensive training on how to use them, and more importantly how to retain them.
Third, you've said it a few times now about us thinking open carry should be banned. This simply isn't true. We are all gun nuts. We love guns. What we don't want is the untrained sissy who believes he will now be respected by carrying a gun to end up ruining it for all of us.


Oh, and don't for a minute think the govt. taking our guns will never happen. The govt. has been and will continue to increase gun regulations. Also remember that even though there are lots of gun owners and supporters, there are far more gun haters. We are the minority.
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Old July 15th, 2012, 09:00 PM   #24
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What these open carry morons fail to recognize is that 2nd amendment is just one act of congress from going away... the Bill of Rights has been amended a few times throughout history and you are fool if you don’t think it could happen again.
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Old July 15th, 2012, 10:10 PM   #25
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What these open carry morons fail to recognize is that 2nd amendment is just one act of congress from going away... the Bill of Rights has been amended a few times throughout history and you are fool if you don’t think it could happen again.
Hence my "Right" to carry argument I've used in the past. Rights are a figment of the imagination.
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Old July 16th, 2012, 05:17 AM   #26
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You still miss the point.
First, there are entire libraries filled with laws and no cop will know every law. It's simple. They know laws they deal with regularly. Open carry is a relatively new (it's not but the movement sort of is) idea and not everyone has been brought up to speed on the issue. However, the law is fairly cut and dry like most laws. What's not cut and dry is the individuals actually doing it. Which is why there are the douchers carrying ARs as if on patrol for terrorists.
Second, carrying a simple handgun on your hip in many situations, or even a long gun in the woods and such is the norm and nobody is shocked to see it. The large packs of people that get together for these dinners and such at family restaurants carrying long guns is not the norm. The argument of spreading awareness and desensitizing the public to the sight of guns is a widely used argument by the open carry supporters. Frankly, if I was sitting at a Ponderosa and a bunch of people came in carrying rifles, I wouldn't exactly feel comfortable and I'm a gun guy. I have one on me at all times. There are just too many variables, and most of all, I don't know what sort of doucher is actually in control of the weapon in the first place. Many just think if they have a gun they somehow become a badass and they can now protect themselves and everyone else. WRONG. Thats not even legal in the first place, nor is it safe considering most people don't have any sort of actual training with the weapon. Hitting a target is not training either. Then there is the fact that many people carrying weapons exposed at walking around like it's nothing more than a cheap cellphone on their belt. I've personally witnessed on more than one occasion where a person is open carrying a handgun in a holster and Joe Public who happens to be standing very near them is eyeing it up and would have a very easy time removing the weapon from the holster and taking it. Granted, Joe Public isn't likely going to try that but you can bet Joe Dirtbag would. Why not just hand them a gun in the first place? Did you know that the leading causing of police officer shootings is by their own weapons? Weapons that they have had extensive training on how to use them, and more importantly how to retain them.
Third, you've said it a few times now about us thinking open carry should be banned. This simply isn't true. We are all gun nuts. We love guns. What we don't want is the untrained sissy who believes he will now be respected by carrying a gun to end up ruining it for all of us.


Oh, and don't for a minute think the govt. taking our guns will never happen. The govt. has been and will continue to increase gun regulations. Also remember that even though there are lots of gun owners and supporters, there are far more gun haters. We are the minority.
I believe what we have here is a communicational break down. Were more or less believing along the same lines but not being seen on both sides through communication. I understand that ypur saying nothing is wrong with open carry just usually the person that is shouldn't be. I'll leave it at that. Good day Sir.

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Old July 16th, 2012, 05:39 AM   #27
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Wow
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Old July 16th, 2012, 06:02 AM   #28
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I love these debates. This topic comes on the board and suddenly we have a bunch of OC lovers joining up to perpetuate their convoluted views to the regulars.

I'm all for the 2nd Amendent, open carry, concealed, etc. What I don't like seeing is douchers who believe every conspiricy theory they hear waving guns of all sizes around in public because "IT'S THEIR GAWD GIVEN RIGHT". These same people tend to think cops are on a mission to fukc with them just because the cops have nothing better to do. When you discuss reasonable OC practices and ideals with the wack job side of OC, they fail to grasp the concept because their minds can not follow logic or reason and they are completly missing a bullshit filter for their ears.
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Old July 16th, 2012, 12:01 PM   #29
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You're missing the point. Nobody is trying to say they shouldn't be allowed. What the argument is is open carry is dumb. It puts the person carrying at a tactical disadvantage and it makes the general gun fearing public very uneasy. The very sight of a gun scares many people and makes them think you are a murderer. How many of those people do you think it will take before a law is passed that prohibits open carry, and puts more regulations on weapons carry in general?

Then there is the argument about the open carry tool bags who carry an assault weapon up the street as if they are doing a patrol in a war zone. Yeah, that surely makes the general public more comfortable and will do a bunch for your cause, right?

I think its safe to say most on this website are very pro gun, but many are very much against some small penis douchers who think they are badass showing off their guns that will likely end up causing more harm than good to the cause.

Regarding your comment about someone "robbing or messing with" Hancho; do you really believe a open carry person will save the day? Don't you think the guy doing the "robbing or messing with" will look around and the first person they will go for is the dummy with the gun showing. It's eliminating the biggest threat first, and the poor soul open carrying likely won't see it coming. Concealed carry, on the other hand, offers the element of surprise and now the person "robbing or messing with" is at the disadvantage.
This, a lot.

If I were a scum bag, and I was going to rob a place or someone in general and I had a weapon that I was prepared to use if need be the first thing I would do is pop the guy OCing right in the face. Not only would that set the "tone" for the experience, but it would eliminate an obvious threat before he even knew what the fukc was going on.

Now there is also the flip side of maybe I'm not armed, or I'm not prepared to use my weapon, and yes seeing that guy with a gun on his hip may make me think twice about what I'm going to do.

However, given the amount of robberies that end with someone dead these days and the level of violent crimes I'm going to wager the first scenario is more likely.

Open carry parties, and open carrying in general, is not the way to go about educating and conditioning the general public to not fear guns and the people who carry them.
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Old July 16th, 2012, 12:37 PM   #30
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I'm not so sure I agree. I think there are a lot of wanna be punks who would shrink at the thought of getting shot at. I believe a weapon is a deterrant.

I also think that done discretely, common sightings of a gun on a belt is not a bad thing and people would adjust to it. But for every 100 people OCing discretely, one stupid wanna-be ruins it.

It's like a few years ago when Ted Nugent still lived here and has his morning radio show. He was promoting people to turn out for a township (or something) meeting. He preached over and over, no camo clothing, no knives on your belts, dress professional and create a good image. Same goes here.
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Old July 16th, 2012, 01:08 PM   #31
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I'm not so sure I agree. I think there are a lot of wanna be punks who would shrink at the thought of getting shot at. I believe a weapon is a deterrant.
I think your idea of modern criminals is out dated.

Granted the average kid that is stealing shit out of your car or out of your garage out in the suburbs may well be that way. But I think more often than not the kind of people that are really pulling off armed robberies are the same people that will take your $5, then shoot you for shits and gigs...

It seems like every news report shows these criminals being more and more ruthless and senselessly violent. Gone are the days of a guy taking your wallet, pistol whipping you, then going on his way. Now they take your wallet, beat you, shoot you, and let you watch them rape your wife while you lie there choking to death on your own blood.
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Old July 16th, 2012, 01:12 PM   #32
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I'm not so sure I agree. I think there are a lot of wanna be punks who would shrink at the thought of getting shot at. I believe a weapon is a deterrant.
The more I think about this...

To me that's not the guy you need to worry about. That is still the scared punk kid that is going to take your wallet and ruin your day. For him you are right the weapon in view is a deterrant.

I'd be more worried about the ones out there that aren't afraid of getting shot at, or think they have the situation under control. He's the guy that's going to shoot first then take what he wants. For him I don't believe the weapon is a deterrent, it's just a threat that needs to be dealt with first.
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Old July 16th, 2012, 09:11 PM   #33
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I thinks guns are dumb
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Old July 16th, 2012, 09:37 PM   #34
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I thinks guns are dumb
x2 i sold my daisy red rider cause it scares me
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Old July 16th, 2012, 11:14 PM   #35
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I don't like guns. I am well schooled in Tibetan monk testical fighting and testical self defense techniques. Do you have the balls to take me on?
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Old July 17th, 2012, 11:05 AM   #36
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A good majority of the people that open carry are young men who want to look cool and they figure that having a gun on their hip is the answer. More often or not, these people don't know the first thing about gun safety, they don't understand the laws surrounding their rights (other than they can carry a gun openly..), and usually they are the people that you wouldn't see actually standing up and using their gun in a situation where an innocent person's life is in danger anyway. When the decision comes down to taking someone's life or walking away when you have no attachment to the situation, that would be a hard call. So for those of you OC'ers that say that you better hope that someone open carrying is there when my loved one's lives are threatened, those are big words, I would like to see the number of you that would actually put your life (possibility of prison, public humiliation, people looking down on you, living with your actions) on the line for someone that you didn't know.

Me personally, I conceal carry every day. I don't think that showing off my gun is "cool", I don't believe that someone knowing that I have a gun benefits me in any way. I too would face the same decisions stated above in the event that I had the ability to tilt the tables for a stranger. I am personally part of the younger generation and believe that more emphasis should be put on gun safety practices and training. I don't believe enough people posses the knowledge that I see necessary to carry a loaded firearm around everyday. I was actually mildly disgusted at how easy it was to get my CPL. When my friends and I get together for dinner we usually just call it dinner, we dont feel the need to advertise it as a concealed carry dinner, post ads and fliers, encourage everyone to strap up, post times, and attract as much attention about the event as possible. This is the main reason that I have such a problem with the majority of the open carry crowd.

Not to say that everyone falls within these generalizations.
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Old July 17th, 2012, 11:12 AM   #37
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I saw a guy open carry at Homedepot this past weekend. he was old and looked like a weirdo. I didnt take my eye off of him the whole time he was around. Personally I think OC just draws to much attention I would rather cc and have the public or criminals not look twice at me.
That being said I still like the fact that we have that right and Im glad people still stand behind it and fight to keep it.

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Old July 17th, 2012, 05:01 PM   #38
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There was a time when only cravens and assassins hid their weapons.
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Old July 17th, 2012, 05:41 PM   #39
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Can someone show me a case when OC caused the criminal to shoot that person and then continue on with the intended crime. Thus must happen every day in states that only allow OC. I would also bet that thousands of people who CC get shot when they print too. I see people OC and CC everyday.once I notice they are armed nothing about how I go about my business changes. Trailrail if the guy looks like a "weirdo" what difference does it make if he is armed? If someone is suspicious you should always keep yourself in a spot which benifits you in a bad situation. Let me guess you sit with your back to the door at restaurants too. I'm not saying OC doesn't cause a stir, and I too think many times its for show.
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Old July 17th, 2012, 06:05 PM   #40
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Can someone show me a case when OC caused the criminal to shoot that person and then continue on with the intended crime. Thus must happen every day in states that only allow OC. I would also bet that thousands of people who CC get shot when they print too. I see people OC and CC everyday.once I notice they are armed nothing about how I go about my business changes. Trailrail if the guy looks like a "weirdo" what difference does it make if he is armed? If someone is suspicious you should always keep yourself in a spot which benifits you in a bad situation. Let me guess you sit with your back to the door at restaurants too. I'm not saying OC doesn't cause a stir, and I too think many times its for show.
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