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Old July 10th, 2012, 08:37 AM   #1
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So with starting wages going down, less total jobs available and rising college costs/student loan debt, who is going to support the 45-60 yr old generation when over 25% of them don't have any savings already and social security slated to run dry before 2025? Combine that with being lazy and I think we're doomed.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/the-jo...s-of-2012.html
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Old July 10th, 2012, 08:50 AM   #2
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Ya know what I see when I look at that? All those english majors who coasted by with B's and C's, didn't do anything to build a resume while in school, then decided to enter the workforce.

Kinda reminds me of my ex that went to MSU for Zoology. Racked up 50K in student loans for a job that starts out at 30K, then couldn't use it for anything practical, so she went back to school for a 2 year degree that makes her 40K a year.
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Old July 10th, 2012, 08:57 AM   #3
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Mark Mulholland, 22, a history major from the University of Virginia, graduated in May 2012 and is now looking for work in communications. “My hope is to gain valuable experience rather than a massive salary,” he says. His target? $40,000 a year.
History degree, eh? Did you want fries with that?
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Old July 10th, 2012, 08:58 AM   #4
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Strange because I'm in the "math" oriented side of business and I've been forced to hire people with the same degree I have at starting wages $10-18K less than I did over 10 yrs ago. Housing prices have gone down but everything else in life has gone up. College was about 35% less expensive then as well. It's a shame and it's not sustainable. In my mind, my parents and grandparents failed to set the country up for success, and I will not be able to support them in thier failures. I only hope we can manage to turn things for the better for our children in the future.
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Old July 10th, 2012, 08:58 AM   #5
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I have a girl who works for me in IT who has a degree in something like biology with a speciality on marine mammals..
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Old July 10th, 2012, 12:04 PM   #6
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History degree, eh? Did you want fries with that?
Exactly. What type of job did he expect to got with a history degree?
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Old July 10th, 2012, 04:29 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by feva4u View Post
Strange because I'm in the "math" oriented side of business and I've been forced to hire people with the same degree I have at starting wages $10-18K less than I did over 10 yrs ago. Housing prices have gone down but everything else in life has gone up. College was about 35% less expensive then as well. It's a shame and it's not sustainable. In my mind, my parents and grandparents failed to set the country up for success, and I will not be able to support them in thier failures. I only hope we can manage to turn things for the better for our children in the future.
My question is how is it the fault of the previous generation, our parents and grandparents for the most part did the best they could. It is the last 10 t0 15 years that things have gotten out of hand. I would say in the last 4 years alone things have gone down hill as far as debt and our economy.
People continue to vote democrate and we will see things get only worse.
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Old July 10th, 2012, 04:48 PM   #8
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What is the current average age of Corporate CEO's, House and Senate Reps, President's advisors, ect?
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Old July 10th, 2012, 04:51 PM   #9
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This one's fairly doom and gloom but no less believable long term.
http://economyincrisis.org/content/b...ion-in-history
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Old July 10th, 2012, 04:55 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by feva4u View Post
Strange because I'm in the "math" oriented side of business and I've been forced to hire people with the same degree I have at starting wages $10-18K less than I did over 10 yrs ago. Housing prices have gone down but everything else in life has gone up. College was about 35% less expensive then as well. It's a shame and it's not sustainable. In my mind, my parents and grandparents failed to set the country up for success, and I will not be able to support them in thier failures. I only hope we can manage to turn things for the better for our children in the future.
I donít know about your parents and grandparents, buy mine came from humble beginnings and worked hard to get what they had. Itís not their fault that young people think they should be able to have it all with their history degree straight out of college.
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Old July 10th, 2012, 05:03 PM   #11
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I didn't hire a history degree major, BSME actually. What degree do you have brewmenn?

My Parent and Grandparents worked hard for what they have too, as have I. That doesn't change the passing of the burden those generations did/are still doing, leaving thier children in a tougher situation than what they dealt with.

This one's partial comical, mostly sad, I'm sure not 100% true, still sad though.
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/a...blow-your-mind
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Old July 10th, 2012, 06:01 PM   #12
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I see several problems, one is the societal pressure for young adults to go to college. Our society has made it a do or die type situation, go to college and be successful, or go into the workforce and struggle. So, young adults are going straight to college to "gain" practical life experience, college has been designed to coddle a young adult and help them "transition" into the role of an adult.

Again, our society has placed the burden of parenting on the public school system.

I attended college for 4 years. I did not graduate. At the end of year 4 it was time to grow up, be a man, and get a job. So I did, and I started out at 12.50 an hour, paying all of my bills, rent, student loans and putting some away for a rainy day. Even when that employer couldn't pay me on time, I still paid my bills.

Now, 3 years later and 3 jobs later, I am earning a very fair wage, more than most of my friends with degrees or no college experience, because I have worked hard to stand by my word, I show up on time, and I put my best foot forward. I know I will make mistakes and I own them when I do. At 24 years old I have put myself in a very strong position to be successful.
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Old July 10th, 2012, 06:24 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by feva4u View Post
I didn't hire a history degree major, BSME actually. What degree do you have brewmenn?

My Parent and Grandparents worked hard for what they have too, as have I. That doesn't change the passing of the burden those generations did/are still doing, leaving thier children in a tougher situation than what they dealt with.

This one's partial comical, mostly sad, I'm sure not 100% true, still sad though.
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/a...blow-your-mind
I have an associates degree in drafting and about 20 years experience.
What Iím missing is the connection between your parents and grandparents lack of saving for retirement and your inability to pay people what they were paid 10 years ago.
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Old July 10th, 2012, 07:10 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by BlackBetty97 View Post
I see several problems, one is the societal pressure for young adults to go to college. Our society has made it a do or die type situation, go to college and be successful, or go into the workforce and struggle. So, young adults are going straight to college to "gain" practical life experience, college has been designed to coddle a young adult and help them "transition" into the role of an adult.

Again, our society has placed the burden of parenting on the public school system.

I attended college for 4 years. I did not graduate. At the end of year 4 it was time to grow up, be a man, and get a job. So I did, and I started out at 12.50 an hour, paying all of my bills, rent, student loans and putting some away for a rainy day. Even when that employer couldn't pay me on time, I still paid my bills.

Now, 3 years later and 3 jobs later, I am earning a very fair wage, more than most of my friends with degrees or no college experience, because I have worked hard to stand by my word, I show up on time, and I put my best foot forward. I know I will make mistakes and I own them when I do. At 24 years old I have put myself in a very strong position to be successful.
X2 if ya show up om time and are willing to learn, you can be just as successful or even more than the college kid
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Old July 10th, 2012, 07:25 PM   #15
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I have an associates degree in drafting and about 20 years experience.
What I’m missing is the connection between your parents and grandparents lack of saving for retirement and your inability to pay people what they were paid 10 years ago.
I was using "parents and grandparents" figuratively. You would be serving fries right with the history major with that degree in todays entry level market or making equal pay. Shitty thought huh.
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Old July 10th, 2012, 08:50 PM   #16
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X2 if ya show up om time and are willing to learn, you can be just as successful or even more than the college kid
Not if the college kid puts in the same effort.....statistically that is. I have found that non degreed professionals tend to have a chip on their shoulder about it and put in more effort. More effort isn't always a good thing though, sometimes its more motive driven than success driven. Either way starting wages being stagnant or negative while inflation rises isn't giving me a good feeling about where we're heading as a country.
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Old July 10th, 2012, 11:23 PM   #17
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I was using "parents and grandparents" figuratively. You would be serving fries right with the history major with that degree in todays entry level market or making equal pay. Shitty thought huh.
I figured you were, but just went with your wording like you were talking about yours specifically. I still fail to see the connection between the older generations failure to save for retirement and the younger generations low starting pay, beyond both being part of the coming shitstorm, which I agree is coming.

I started out not making much more that the guy serving the fries 20 years ago. I got to the point of making a comfortable wage by developing my talents and taking advantage of opportunities that became available to me. We struggle to find good designers and many places would welcome some young talent. At 47 I'm still one of the younger designers. Eventually we're going to need some youngsters to take our place.
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Old July 11th, 2012, 06:55 AM   #18
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I still fail to see the connection between the older generations failure to save for retirement and the younger generations low starting pay, beyond both being part of the coming shitstorm, which I agree is coming.
I guess I would link it to people adding 5-15 yrs to thier careers to try and delay high healthcare payments and add to thier retirement. The demand has risen a little lately with the stock market up and some people taking the retirement plunge but not enough to offset the amount of graduates and younger people seeking those positions. With the older gen holding jobs longer and often returning back to work into "entry level positions" after being retired a couple of years trying to offset healthcare costs, the supply is much greater than the current demand. When that happens prices tend to fall. Companies are exploiting it right now by lowering the pay for those positions. The real unfortunate part of all that I see is the generational gap (old vs young, stubborn vs lazy, ect.) creates a communication gap and alot of unwritten knowledge isn't being handed down. That's going to create a stall in progress and innovation because younger gens are going to have to relearn what has already been figured out instead of moving forward.


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I started out not making much more that the guy serving the fries 20 years ago. I got to the point of making a comfortable wage by developing my talents and taking advantage of opportunities that became available to me. We struggle to find good designers and many places would welcome some young talent. At 47 I'm still one of the younger designers. Eventually we're going to need some youngsters to take our place.
I just hope enough are getting hired to learn from the "elders" so all the ground made in the last 30+yrs for design and technique isn't lost. My current company only has 2 of ~ 20 under the age of 32 in technical positions.
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Old July 11th, 2012, 07:14 AM   #19
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I just hope enough are getting hired to learn from the "elders" so all the ground made in the last 30+yrs for design and technique isn't lost. My current company only has 2 of ~ 20 under the age of 32 in technical positions.

I currently do not have anybody to mentor right now. The demand by the client to keep the cost down does not allow for this. Our firm is realizing this, and trying to come up with a cost effective way to bring younger blood on board.
In the past, I have had about 20 up and coming who trained under me, and have all moved on to probably higher positions in competitive companies. That's a good thing though. It keeps the creativity active.
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Old July 11th, 2012, 08:08 AM   #20
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I have 4 engineers who work for me. They range in age from 44 to 58. We decided to bring in a co-op or college kid to work as an engineering clerk with hopes that they may work into something. We contacted all the local high schools and a couple colleges. We received a total of 3 applicants. Some of the high schools said we don't do co-op any more and one said they have eliminated CAD classes. WTF? None of the candidates were what we were looking for.

feva4u, why do you think that your parents or grandparents had it any easier to get ahead than you do? When we started out it was unheard of to be able to buy a house with anything less than 10% down. Now you can do it with less than 5%. My wife and I were married 8 years before we could afford to buy a humble home. Saving, trying to raise kids, all that stuff was no different 30 - 50 years ago than it is now. Many people lost their jobs and homes in 80-82 and had to start over.

On top of that, your generation is far more educated both by schooling and access to usefull information through the internet. Years ago the only way to get information on saving strategy, stocks, bonds, mutual funds was to go to the library or pay an advisor. Now you can find more in 20 minutes than I could find in a month 30+ years ago. The younger generation seems to have this smirk that they are far smarter than their stupid parents. Well, it wasn't your generation that invented the computer and internet. It's just that your generation is the first to be able to take full advantage of it. I remember when a FAX machine was a big deal because you could send something without having to wait days for it to come or go in the mail. Now people get pissed if they have to wait more than a couple minutes for an attachment to come through.

Don't be so quick to criticize someone till you have walked in the same shoes.
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