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Old May 23rd, 2012, 05:46 PM   #381
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Wow, haters will contiue to hate. If anybody is being intolerent it is you.
By you judging me because I have an opinion, ummmm.
lol What is ironic here is that I fully support you having your opinion.

What I do not support is you or anyone else telling someone else how to live.

What part of that don't you get?
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Old May 23rd, 2012, 05:46 PM   #382
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I would say gay people do not treat Christians with intolerence at all. I'm fairly certain they just want to be left alone by you and all the others. The Christians trying to control what they do is certainly creating some unnecessary hostility though.

It's not your job to tell others what they need to do to get into heaven or see the light or live with god or whatever else you're trying to push on them. Unless two guys are screwing each other in your front yard or at your kid's school, leave them alone and live your life.
I have a suggestion for you. Next time you hear of a gay pride parade or go to downtown Ferndale with a sign and the words, "homosexuality is a sin" and can can garantee you will be treated with hostility and intolerence.

Did you read my post?
I said it is the work of Christians to spread the word of God.
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Old May 23rd, 2012, 05:48 PM   #383
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lol What is ironic here is that I fully support you having your opinion.

What I do not support is you or anyone else telling someone else how to live.

What part of that don't you get?
We will have to agree to disagree with each other then.
See I don't have to answer to you but I will have to answer to God.
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Old May 23rd, 2012, 05:50 PM   #384
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I have a suggestion for you. Next time you hear of a gay pride parade or go to downtown Ferndale with a sign and the words, "homosexuality is a sin" and can can garantee you will be treated with hostility and intolerence.

Did you read my post?
I said it is the work of Christians to spread the word of God.
I would be treated with intolerance and hostility if I walked into your church and pissed in the holy water as well.....

Do you intentionally not follow analogies?
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Old May 23rd, 2012, 05:50 PM   #385
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Wow, haters will contiue to hate. If anybody is being intolerent it is you.
By you judging me because I have an opinion, ummmm.
Just don't push your beliefs onto people that aren't interested. Mind your own business. It's pretty simple.

I believe that god is a delusion and that once you die you go into a hole in the ground or on top of your relative's mantel and that's it. I'm as certain that I am right as you are that I am wrong. The difference is that I don't go into churches and bible studies to try to save people from their beliefs that I believe are wrong and to push mine on them. I don't do it because I have respect for others' beliefs and because them believing in something different than me, doesn't harm me. Why can't Christians do that and devote their time to bettering themselves instead of trying to "save" others?
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Old May 23rd, 2012, 05:53 PM   #386
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I have a suggestion for you. Next time you hear of a gay pride parade or go to downtown Ferndale with a sign and the words, "homosexuality is a sin" and can can garantee you will be treated with hostility and intolerence.
That's absurd. Why would I ever do that? Again, they're not harming me. I wouldn't go to a chuch with a sign that says "you're all brainwashed" and expect to be treated with respect.
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Old May 23rd, 2012, 06:03 PM   #387
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I would say gay people do not treat Christians with intolerence at all. I'm fairly certain they just want to be left alone by you and all the others. The Christians trying to control what they do is certainly creating some unnecessary hostility though.

It's not your job to tell others what they need to do to get into heaven or see the light or live with god or whatever else you're trying to push on them. Unless two guys are screwing each other in your front yard or at your kid's school, leave them alone and live your life.
But it is. "Go in to the world and make Fisher's of men".

The Great Commission (Matthey 28:16-20)

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Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
While it's not a really effective way to Cramp it down poeple's throats, it is our job. There are hundreds of ways to share the Gospel that are not invasive but there does come a time when sharing what one believes is part of that.

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I would be treated with intolerance and hostility if I walked into your church and pissed in the holy water as well.....

Do you intentionally not follow analogies?
Nope, You'd probably be asked to stop and shown where the actual bathroom is. That is, If you could find the Holy water. We don't have any. . On the other hand I'm Free Methodist so they do allow people to worship anyway they see fit. Don't know if that would pass though.


There are alot of Churches what wouldn't be too happy about it but I think most would try and offer you some kind of Medical treatment or Mental help because of yoru actions.
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Old May 23rd, 2012, 06:45 PM   #388
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lol What is ironic here is that I fully support you having your opinion.

What I do not support is you or anyone else telling someone else how to live.

What part of that don't you get?
I want to make sweet, sweet love to you on the front lawn of the neighborhood school.
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Old May 23rd, 2012, 07:10 PM   #389
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I would be treated with intolerance and hostility if I walked into your church and pissed in the holy water as well.....

Do you intentionally not follow analogies?
Some comments just aren't worth responding to.
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Old May 23rd, 2012, 07:18 PM   #390
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Just don't push your beliefs onto people that aren't interested. Mind your own business. It's pretty simple.

I believe that god is a delusion and that once you die you go into a hole in the ground or on top of your relative's mantel and that's it. I'm as certain that I am right as you are that I am wrong. The difference is that I don't go into churches and bible studies to try to save people from their beliefs that I believe are wrong and to push mine on them. I don't do it because I have respect for others' beliefs and because them believing in something different than me, doesn't harm me. Why can't Christians do that and devote their time to bettering themselves instead of trying to "save" others?
Actually it is my business and it's not simple. Look at the difficult time I'm having with you
I don't know how old you are but you are being very narrow minded to think that after you die thats it.
As for bettering myself.... I'll leave that to Jesus. I would only mess that up.

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That's absurd. Why would I ever do that? Again, they're not harming me. I wouldn't go to a chuch with a sign that says "you're all brainwashed" and expect to be treated with respect.
Actually before I got saved I thought that it was a sort of brainwashing but have found out it is brain washing. I got rid of all the stuff the world fills your head with.
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Old May 23rd, 2012, 07:22 PM   #391
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Some comments just aren't worth responding to.
Why because its logical?

LC4 didn't have a problem getting what I was saying.

Your reaction by "not responding" illustrates my point. You think you are doing a service to these "lost souls" but in reality you are pissing in their holy water, no matter how right you think you are. So saying they are hostile against christians is a line of BS.

Savvy?
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Old May 23rd, 2012, 07:43 PM   #392
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But it is. "Go in to the world and make Fisher's of men".

The Great Commission (Matthey 28:16-20)
And believe it or not, Id wager most of the people in this thread understand the obligation of evangelism. Id bet most of us will even defend your right to do it. But there is a distinct line between sharing your beliefs, and pushing them onto others. Legislating your beliefs crosses that line, IMO. If you or anyone else wants the "one man one woman" law, whats to stop other legislation that is based solely on one particular belief? Cause I can guarantee you with almost 100% certainty, it wont stop with the Christian definition of marriage.

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While it's not a really effective way to Cramp it down poeple's throats, it is our job. There are hundreds of ways to share the Gospel that are not invasive but there does come a time when sharing what one believes is part of that.
For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

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Nope, You'd probably be asked to stop and shown where the actual bathroom is. That is, If you could find the Holy water. We don't have any. . On the other hand I'm Free Methodist so they do allow people to worship anyway they see fit. Don't know if that would pass though.
Why? What if his God told him its his responsibility to piss in the holy water?

You may (speaking hypothetically) find it objectionable, but hes just expressing his religion. It is his right.

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There are alot of Churches what wouldn't be too happy about it but I think most would try and offer you some kind of Medical treatment or Mental help because of yoru actions.
So they would make a judgement that he is mentally unstable because he is expressing his religion?

Why is this hypocrisy not glaringly obvious?
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Old May 23rd, 2012, 07:49 PM   #393
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Some comments just aren't worth responding to.
Yet you responded to one in which you stated its not worth responding to one.

Aber.... I will defend yours and anyone elses right to practice and enjoy your rights. But I believe you are taking advantage of that generosity and responsibility.

Please try to understand not everyone shares your view nor does everyone see God when they look around. Just like folks are not telling you that what you believe in is silly and a waster of time, return the respect and pay attention to whats going on. The people you may be preaching to might not be interested in what you are telling them. And when you come back and pour it on stronger, it turns people off. You can not force people to turn to God. I appreciate your need to fulfill that duty of yours, but you seem to lack the ability to recognize the time and place for it.
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Old May 23rd, 2012, 07:53 PM   #394
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Actually before I got saved I thought that it was a sort of brainwashing but have found out it is brain washing. I got rid of all the stuff the world fills your head with.
I never said you were brainwashed, I used that as an analogy to your gay pride parade sign. You're not getting it. You going to a gay pride parade with a "God hates fags" or "Gays are sinners" sign is no different than someone going to a church with a "God is a delusion" or a "You're all brainwashed sheep" sign. You can't see that both are equally disrespectful and fruitless?

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Actually it is my business and it's not simple. I don't know how old you are but you are being very narrow minded to think that after you die thats it.
It's not your place to meddle in peoples' lives. I don't care what your book says, being raised with manners tells me it's simply impolite to persuade people that your way is right when they're not interested in anything you have to say. Not only does it make Christians look like busy-body annoyances, but it's just plain inconsiderate and rude.

My belief that there is nothing after death and your unwaivering insistence that there is, is just as equally narrow minded. I understand that you have different beliefs and I'm not going to try to persuade you otherwise. Show everyone else the same respect.
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Old May 23rd, 2012, 08:07 PM   #395
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And believe it or not, Id wager most of the people in this thread understand the obligation of evangelism. Id bet most of us will even defend your right to do it. But there is a distinct line between sharing your beliefs, and pushing them onto others. Legislating your beliefs crosses that line, IMO. If you or anyone else wants the "one man one woman" law, whats to stop other legislation that is based solely on one particular belief? Cause I can guarantee you with almost 100% certainty, it wont stop with the Christian definition of marriage.
I get that. I was more, or less, pointing out that it is our job. Not really connecting it to the thread subject.

I also get that legislating a belief would be against our founding documents, but how is legislating a definition AT ALL, not Unconstitutional? The only difference is that to make it anybody, we're just legislating their opinion in stead of the more conservative one.


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For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.



Why? What if his God told him its his responsibility to piss in the holy water?

You may (speaking hypothetically) find it objectionable, but hes just expressing his religion. It is his right.
Private Property. Indecent Exposure. However, If he wanted his own batch of "holy water" we could throw some "Holy water" into a Water bottle and he could go to town in the bathroom or in his own house.

I could see the next question being "Well, do you think maybe that is how people feel about Christians?". Yes, I could. However, we don't things that are against the law, or shouldn't. And we also shouldn't be doing things to make us get kicked out of places. Does it happen? Yes, but most of us don't choose to go that route.


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So they would make a judgement that he is mentally unstable because he is expressing his religion?

Why is this hypocrisy not glaringly obvious?
It was a Joke. . Honestly, if a guy came in and started pissing in our sanctuary, we'd talk to him and try to figure out why and help him out anyway we could that would be in accordance with the Law. Not the law of moses though because we put the knives and the altar and all that away in storage. <<<Also a Joke.
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Old May 23rd, 2012, 08:33 PM   #396
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I get that. I was more, or less, pointing out that it is our job. Not really connecting it to the thread subject.
I think we all understand this. At least I would hope so.

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I also get that legislating a belief would be against our founding documents, but how is legislating a definition AT ALL, not Unconstitutional?
With respect to protecting our own individual rights, we must have definitions legislated. Thats just how it is. However, those definitions need to be based on protecting each and every one of our individual rights. We have no property rights unless there is a legal definition of property. We have no freedom of speech unless "speech" has a definition. When, IMO, we take say a religious definition rather than a dictionary definition, we might as well have a state sponsored religion. Because not every religion will define everything the same way. Thats why our founding documents are based on individual liberty and freedom, rather than 1 central theology placing all power and authority into a higher being. We were given a protected right to practice our individual faiths as we see fit. We were not given the authority or power to turn our individual beliefs based in religion into laws that govern the entire populace.

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Private Property. Indecent Exposure. However, If he wanted his own batch of "holy water" we could throw some "Holy water" into a Water bottle and he could go to town in the bathroom or in his own house.
But his religion expressly tells him it must be done in the place of worship during mass. Can you see the slippery slope that is legislating based on religious beliefs rather in individual freedom? You asked about legislating any definition.. Without a definition of private property, you wouldn't have any. But that definition is not based on religion, it is based on your or the Churches rights as a citizen or business. Want to know what the world would look like if private property was defined religiously? Look at Israel and Pakistan.

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I could see the next question being "Well, do you think maybe that is how people feel about Christians?". Yes, I could. However, we don't things that are against the law, or shouldn't. And we also shouldn't be doing things to make us get kicked out of places. Does it happen? Yes, but most of us don't choose to go that route.
I recognize this... And I make it a point to not make the exceptions the rule.

But I think the analogy was not a jab at Christianity, just an example to make a point.

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It was a Joke. . Honestly, if a guy came in and started pissing in our sanctuary, we'd talk to him and try to figure out why and help him out anyway we could that would be in accordance with the Law. Not the law of moses though because we put the knives and the altar and all that away in storage. <<<Also a Joke.
There no room for comedy in this thread. Please refrain from any future or previous attempts at humor.
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Old May 23rd, 2012, 08:51 PM   #397
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With respect to protecting our own individual rights, we must have definitions legislated. Thats just how it is. However, those definitions need to be based on protecting each and every one of our individual rights. We have no property rights unless there is a legal definition of property. We have no freedom of speech unless "speech" has a definition. When, IMO, we take say a religious definition rather than a dictionary definition, we might as well have a state sponsored religion. Because not every religion will define everything the same way. Thats why our founding documents are based on individual liberty and freedom, rather than 1 central theology placing all power and authority into a higher being. We were given a protected right to practice our individual faiths as we see fit. We were not given the authority or power to turn our individual beliefs based in religion into laws that govern the entire populace.



But his religion expressly tells him it must be done in the place of worship during mass. Can you see the slippery slope that is legislating based on religious beliefs rather in individual freedom? You asked about legislating any definition.. Without a definition of private property, you wouldn't have any. But that definition is not based on religion, it is based on your or the Churches rights as a citizen or business. Want to know what the world would look like if private property was defined religiously? Look at Israel and Pakistan.

I get why we need definitions but, in this case, why is it so hard to make up a new term to include us all but not step on those of us who hold the opinion that the term "marriage" should be one man and a women? If there is an objection to that then why? Because they think it should be called marriage? Do they automatically get it because thier opinion is not religiously based?


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There no room for comedy in this thread. Please refrain from any future or previous attempts at humor.
I'll try and stop. Promise.
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Old May 23rd, 2012, 10:35 PM   #398
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Why because its logical?

LC4 didn't have a problem getting what I was saying.

Your reaction by "not responding" illustrates my point. You think you are doing a service to these "lost souls" but in reality you are pissing in their holy water, no matter how right you think you are. So saying they are hostile against christians is a line of BS.

Savvy?
You know when someone says something and you know it is not even worth responding to? I found it not worth the time to make a response to your one comment. i did not think that gay people had holy water. I wonder if they did where would thet get it from?
Besides peeing in holy water.... how disrespectful.

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Yet you responded to one in which you stated its not worth responding to one.

Aber.... I will defend yours and anyone elses right to practice and enjoy your rights. But I believe you are taking advantage of that generosity and responsibility.

Please try to understand not everyone shares your view nor does everyone see God when they look around. Just like folks are not telling you that what you believe in is silly and a waster of time, return the respect and pay attention to whats going on. The people you may be preaching to might not be interested in what you are telling them. And when you come back and pour it on stronger, it turns people off. You can not force people to turn to God. I appreciate your need to fulfill that duty of yours, but you seem to lack the ability to recognize the time and place for it.
Actually my rights are granted to me by my creator, just as you have and enjoy your rights and everybody else has thier rights to enjoy.
You seem to have no problem mentioning to me that believing in God is silly and a waste of time. I do believe that respect is something earned and I am paying attention to your lack of it.
You are responding to the PGR forum, if you don't like all the God talk don't respond. If you did not respond I would know that you have no interest and would cease my conversation with you.
Obviously you have an interest, thats why you can't leave.

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I never said you were brainwashed, I used that as an analogy to your gay pride parade sign. You're not getting it. You going to a gay pride parade with a "God hates fags" or "Gays are sinners" sign is no different than someone going to a church with a "God is a delusion" or a "You're all brainwashed sheep" sign. You can't see that both are equally disrespectful and fruitless?




It's not your place to meddle in peoples' lives. I don't care what your book says, being raised with manners tells me it's simply impolite to persuade people that your way is right when they're not interested in anything you have to say. Not only does it make Christians look like busy-body annoyances, but it's just plain inconsiderate and rude.

My belief that there is nothing after death and your unwaivering insistence that there is, is just as equally narrow minded. I understand that you have different beliefs and I'm not going to try to persuade you otherwise. Show everyone else the same respect.
You mentioned in your quote so you must be thinking that Christians must be brainwashed to believe in God.
Again... it is my place to tell others about Jesus, even if it offends you. Which obviously it does.
See if we were talking in person it would be quite different. If you did not like what I was saying you would just turn around and walk away and mutter something under your breath about "how inconsiderate and rude can Christians be"
See I will have to answer to God for my actions of not telling you about Him and if you get your feathers ruffled because I did, well I did my job and the rest is up to God.
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Old May 24th, 2012, 04:17 AM   #399
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Actually my rights are granted to me by my creator, just as you have and enjoy your rights and everybody else has thier rights to enjoy.
Just as are my rights and my religion says different things than yours. Thats why our liberties and freedoms are not religiously guaranteed. But protected as individual rights. We are all individuals free to choose how we will follow the faith we choose.

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You seem to have no problem mentioning to me that believing in God is silly and a waste of time.
This is why its difficult to interact with you. You appear to have some comprehension issues. Please speed read all my previous posts and point out where Ive said that believing God is silly and a waste of time. Then, point out to me where I have specifically stated I respect and support your right to follow whichever religion you choose, just stop pushing it onto everyone.

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I do believe that respect is something earned and I am paying attention to your lack of it.
Address the above and we can talk about this.

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You are responding to the PGR forum, if you don't like all the God talk don't respond. If you did not respond I would know that you have no interest and would cease my conversation with you.
Obviously you have an interest, thats why you can't leave.
Its Politics, Government or Religion. It is not solely religion.

And I have an interest because you front out your God given right to practice your religion, protected by the bill of rights but take no issue with denying others protected rights in the name of your religion. That is exactly why our founders came here.

This issue encompasses more than just religion. When you try to tell someone else they can not do what you can do, based on the tenets of your religion, we have an issue.
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Old May 24th, 2012, 04:23 AM   #400
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I get why we need definitions but, in this case, why is it so hard to make up a new term to include us all but not step on those of us who hold the opinion that the term "marriage" should be one man and a women? If there is an objection to that then why? Because they think it should be called marriage? Do they automatically get it because thier opinion is not religiously based?
Based on how the legal system defines terms, and this issue is essentially a legal one, marriage is already defined. It encompasses everyone. The gay rights movement is not trying to redefine anything, its already defined. The movement has sprung up because they are actively being denied the same things straight folks have.

Aber complaining about gay pride parades it quite amusing.... Cause they wouldn't be happening if he would stop persecuting them. Its that whole action/reaction thing. Also, their protests/parades are also protected by our founding documents.

I understand your stance.... Im just not convinced calling it something entirely different is the answer. IMO, just use the dictionary. How others define it in their own lives does not detract from how you define it.

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Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
I'll try and stop. Promise.
Damn... Hard to portray sarcasm.....
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