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Old May 20th, 2012, 08:48 PM   #301
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You fags still arguing? You sound like you are married.
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Old May 20th, 2012, 08:51 PM   #302
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Please, for the sake of keeping the flow of the conversation from being interrupted... Separate your replies to a post from the quote of the post you are replying to.



You may be satisfied that he is your boss, and that's fine. I'm starting to feel like a broken record, but not everyone subscribes to your line of thinking. Our country got its start because of the mindset you are displaying here.

If you feel like abroken record then welcome to the club. We seem to go round and round about these same issues between others here and coninually get new people asking and debating the same old.... It wouldn't be so bad if only you people would search out the truth beyond this forum.
Our country was founded on biblical principals as most of our laws are based on biblical law. Our courts have biblical writtings on them and art sculptures in them. It is the mindset of the liberal person wanting what is different than what this country was meant to be founded on. Which comes in FREEDOM to choose and freedom of religion and rights and so on.


A couple paragraphs from our founding documents I think you need to read.... I will highlight the parts I think are important in relation to the conversation you and I are having.... Feel free to discuss.





Please tell me what the bolded sections mean to you.



Your God or my God? My God doesn't care and since our Government can not have a state sponsored religion, Ill thank you to tell your God to stay out of my life.

As much as you may not think He is your God, when your time comes to an end you will see God and will acknowledge Him. I just hope you find Him before that time.
And you should be. Otherwise you would be living a lie.



How does any of this have anything to do with you?

They are not asking for your approval.



Again, irrelevant. We do not live in a country that is supposed to have a system where we are saved from what others may deem mistakes.

You don't understand how the Christian person works do you?
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Old May 20th, 2012, 09:07 PM   #303
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Aber... please honestly answer this question.


What do you do about this scenario?

Our Gay couple goes out of town for a vacation. They get in a car wreck and one turns out ok and the other is in a coma. Partner A cannot make medical decisions for parter B because they are not legally married, although they have been together for longer than most straight couples. Partner A cant even get updates on condition because the "family" is now in control and does not condone their sons lifestyle.

What do you do?

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Old May 20th, 2012, 09:24 PM   #304
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Pedophiles are happy having sex with children, it harms plenty of people and is not right.
But in their eyes its a good thing. They think they are doing nothing wrong.
So thier is nothing wrong with having boundries.
By changing the definition of marriage from 1 man and 1 woman to homosexual marriage where does it stop people from wanting to marry children, animals, objects, poligomy?
How logical is that?
Open the flood gates and have a free for all.
If its good for gay people to marry it should be good for others also... right?
Now that is a real stretch. We have rape laws to protect children and adults from unwanted sexual assault. We have age minimum laws for sexual consent because a child's brain isn't developed enough to understand the physical, mental and emotional dangers of entering into a sexual relationship. What is being asked for is a marriage between two consenting adults.

That slippery slope arguement is a big fat load of poopie.

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Old May 20th, 2012, 10:11 PM   #305
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Pulling your replies out of the quoted text takes more time than I am willing to devote to future responses. If you have no interest in doing so, or if you are doing it simply because you are aware it annoys me, then refrain from responding to this post and Ill get the message.

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If you feel like abroken record then welcome to the club. We seem to go round and round about these same issues between others here and coninually get new people asking and debating the same old.
The difference is you are the one pushing your lifestyle on others. I, for one and like many others, would prefer you live your life and not judge me, or others, on theirs.

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.... It wouldn't be so bad if only you people would search out the truth beyond this forum.
I grew up in a religious household. I have seen your side of the issue and I choose what I believe to be truth.

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Our country was founded on biblical principals as most of our laws are based on biblical law.
Which can also be attributed to common decency, respect, liberty and freedom. All of which are not saved for Christians. Most religions teach "love they neighbor" and such. That being said, our founders wanted to make sure that the Government it was setting up would be as far removed from sponsoring a religion as possible. For example... Your bible teaches you its a sin to murder... I dont neet a bible to tell me that because I already know its wrong. You can argue that law comes from one of the ten commandments and as such is based in biblical theology. Ill argue its because it infringes on ones right to life. No bible needed. Thats the beauty of our framework, it allows everyone to live as they see fit.

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Our courts have biblical writtings on them and art sculptures in them. It is the mindset of the liberal person wanting what is different than what this country was meant to be founded on.
This isn't a left/right argument.

This country was founded on the idea that all men are free and granted the equal opportunity by whichever creator they believe in to pursue opportunity. Even if they do not believe in any creator past their own parents.

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Which comes in FREEDOM to choose and freedom of religion and rights and so on.
Freedom to choose indeed. Why don't you let the homosexuals choose if they want to get married? Because it infringes on your biblical definition of marriage? Again, not everyone subscribes to your value system.

You neglected to address the passages I set out for you. I am not sure if that was on purpose or accident. Please give them another look. And Ill give you a hint.... The wording of our founding documents is in and of itself shear genius.

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As much as you may not think He is your God, when your time comes to an end you will see God and will acknowledge Him. I just hope you find Him before that time.
So now not only will I see him, I will acknowledge him....

You can not seem to accept nor even comprehend anyone not leading a life absent of Christ, can you?

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You don't understand how the Christian person works do you?
Why would I need to understand? I am not seeking to fulfill my life with Christ nor do I have any unanswered questions that I feel need answered right now. The only issue at hand is there is a sect of this country openly and willingly seeking to deny others the same rights and privileges they enjoy based on nothing but a biblical definition. Youre entire argument is "the bible says one man and one woman."

The other side of your coin you are flipping..." freedom of religion"... means everyone else also enjoys that freedom. Your God may be the all mighty in your scripts.. But your scripts are not the only ones out there.

Please drop the narrow minded view that you and what you believe are the only right answers.
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Old May 20th, 2012, 10:16 PM   #306
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First, I enjoy the interludes that Nuggets provides.

Second, I'm curious what verse you are talking about? Sorcerers?
I believe the verse goes something like "If a man should lay down with another man as he would a woman, he and the other must be put to death."

The Bible doesn't mention anything about clam on clam action so I guess that's ok.

So why are you guys not advicating the death of homosexuals? It's God's will that you kill them.
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Old May 20th, 2012, 10:18 PM   #307
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Aber... please honestly answer this question.


What do you do about this scenario?

our Gay couple go out of town for a vacation. They get in a car wreck and one turns out ok and the other is in a coma. Partner A cannot make medical decisions for parter B because they are not legally married, although they have been together for longer than most straight couples. Partner A cant even get updates on condition because the "family" is now in control and does condone their sons lifestyle.

What do you do?
In situations like you presented here I do think that partner A should have the right to medical info on his or her condition. Our laws do need updating in these type of circumstances but not at the cost of disgracing the term marriage to homosexual marriage. I know marriage as 1man=1woman.
I am not against them wanting a life together but it comes down to what they want to define thier relationship as.
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Old May 20th, 2012, 10:26 PM   #308
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This message is hidden because aber61 is on your ignore list.

Sorry dude, you ate waaaaay to many of the Christ Crackers and now you've lost the ability to use logic or reason.
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Old May 20th, 2012, 10:30 PM   #309
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And how is changing a definition of marriage any different now then what it has been in the past. The definition has evolved many times over the millennia and to say this is it, this is the true meaning is ridiculous. The word marry is used to describe the joining, or blending of many things in modern english.

The fact is this isn't easily solved with a name change. The religious right has made it a mission to shoot down same sex marriage by any name. They have done their best to add non recognition of civil union language to nearly every voter approved law banning same sex marriage.
And you really think that just making "gay marriage" - "Marriage" is going to change any of that? The government will have to force the regognition of that type of union no matter what and I think that's the perfect time to just make the name something completely different. It will at least make the Big Government control horse pill taste a bit better to the Religious people that are concerned.

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I don't recall saying you hate anyone. Only that so many religious people are hung up on some thing that won't change a single thing in their own life.

My wife and I are both agnostic, and getting married had nothing to do with god. Our marriage was a promise from to the other. In fact all you need is a marriage licence and a justice of the peace.
That wasn't necessarily directed at your comment. Just a General attitude from other people on this board that I come in contact with. You're right about not needing God or a Minister to have a legal marriage. I just don't see why that 1) even has to be decided by the government 2) has to be called Marriage.

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And that sounds like what many have said as they killed hundreds of thousands of inocents over the last 2 thousand years in the name of god. But hey who were they to question the will of god. It's not questioning god to question text written by people in a given time when these beliefs were on the rise.
I won't deny that religion can be used to control people. Not for a second. But I will argue that is not the intention of the majority of Churches in America. We should be looking to God's word on our own (outside of church/the pastor) and exploring what those texts mean to us. The Pastor and Church are there to help us if we can't figure out a verse and just to encourage us in our walk.

In My honest opinion, I think that any church that preaches hate is doing Christianity a huge disservice. BUT what we see as following our Creators Commandments can often come off to our Super Politically correct world as Discriminatory.

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Yes, because of the pushback from the religious fundamentalists that wish to have marriage be defined as one man and one woman. Seems it is already defined for the masses, but you want to shore that up to be only 1 man and 1 woman. Not sure its the homosexuals that want to change it. Thats the problem when we try to set up a law of morality based on religion in a country that can not have a state sponsored religion. Our framework is set up to allow ALL to enjoy the freedom to do as they wish. You like to use your Bible to define marriage, I like to use Merriam's...





But you are trying to push yours onto them.



But not everyone agrees that your God is right.
I'm not asking people to agree with my belief. I'm just trying to explain why we think the way we do. Half the reason people look at Christians the way they do is because they don't fully understand why/what/how/who we believe.

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And for the state to recognize just the Christian definition of marriage, would the Government not then be sponsoring a religion?

No disrespect intended, and I mean that... But you Christians are not the only ones here.
And what I'm saying is that I don't want them to regognize any kind of Marriage. I want them to call it something else. Completely. That last paragraph was me trying to explain why Christians have an issue with Homosexual Marriage. More or less the asnwer to the question "How does it effect you anyways?".

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Aber... please honestly answer this question.


What do you do about this scenario?

our Gay couple go out of town for a vacation. They get in a car wreck and one turns out ok and the other is in a coma. Partner A cannot make medical decisions for parter B because they are not legally married, although they have been together for longer than most straight couples. Partner A cant even get updates on condition because the "family" is now in control and does condone their sons lifestyle.

What do you do?
I would personally sock the Parents in the mouth and let the Steveo1 take care of his partner. But I'm a bit more Liberal then Aber. To have an understanding of what our founding fathers wanted and why is a huge deal here. I just don't see a redefinition of terms helping the situation at all. IT's going to have to be forced upon the people which I know alot of us don't think is right. In that case why not use a different name?
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Old May 20th, 2012, 10:35 PM   #310
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In situations like you presented here I do think that partner A should have the right to medical info on his or her condition. Our laws do need updating in these type of circumstances but not at the cost of disgracing the term marriage to homosexual marriage. I know marriage as 1man=1woman.
I am not against them wanting a life together but it comes down to what they want to define thier relationship as.
What you fail to realize is your definition is not the only one we live by, and I don't care who you think wrote the book.

Just an FYI, you don't need god to be married.... ie courthouse marriages. The illusion that marriage is a religious institution is comical, as it means different things for different people. The sooner you understand that, the sooner you start respecting humanity.
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Old May 20th, 2012, 10:35 PM   #311
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This message is hidden because aber61 is on your ignore list.

Sorry dude, you ate waaaaay to many of the Christ Crackers and now you've lost the ability to use logic or reason.
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Old May 20th, 2012, 10:37 PM   #312
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I don't have a problem with calling homosexual unions something other than marriage. Let them have legal responsibility to each other and call it a civil union or whatever. Unfortunalty, I don't think that is the real issue here otherwise gay people unions would have been established a long time ago.
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Old May 20th, 2012, 10:38 PM   #313
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I believe the verse goes something like "If a man should lay down with another man as he would a woman, he and the other must be put to death."

The Bible doesn't mention anything about clam on clam action so I guess that's ok.

So why are you guys not advicating the death of homosexuals? It's God's will that you kill them.
It actually does mention "clam on Clam Action". "women Exchanged natural relationships and lusted after other women" or something like that.

This whole Homosexual issue is actually pretty hard for me...........














































Wait for it......










































Not because I'm homosexual or even have those Tendencies but I strive to follow Jesus's words (because I'm a Christ follower). "The two greatest Commandments are these; Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength, The second is Love your neighbor as your self".

But I also know that there a Laundry list of Sins that I know people think are ok nowadays. Homosexuality is one, Adultery is another, Idolatry could become our nations motto (JMO), and the list goes on. Those things are things that I know are sin. Some are things I struggle with. There is a Balance that is hard to find between Loving your neighbor as your self but also showing them how much they need God. It's hard and I think alot of my fellow Brothers and sisterss have gone about this the wrong way. And it really makes me sad.
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Old May 20th, 2012, 10:43 PM   #314
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I would personally sock the Parents in the mouth and let the Steveo1 take care of his partner. But I'm a bit more Liberal then Aber. To have an understanding of what our founding fathers wanted and why is a huge deal here. I just don't see a redefinition of terms helping the situation at all. IT's going to have to be forced upon the people which I know alot of us don't think is right. In that case why not use a different name?
Because calling it a different name is akin to "separate but equal". Why don't we just make them drink from different fountains, and ride the back of the bus as well...

If marriage were only a religious institution I would agree with you, A la confirmation. But me being confirmed, does not get me any societal benefits, marriage does. Thats the difference, thats why everyone should have those benefits, and why it should be called marriage.

I view my marriage as a commitment to my wife and my wife to me. Its not a damn three way with religion being the third wheel. IF we wanted a tag along we would go find one, but just because we don't practice a religion (wife does from time to time) does not mean I am not "married" The only difference between my marriage and a homosexual one is my wife and I are straight.

General "you" comments to follow...
Also think about this.... There ARE homosexuals in your church. They are everywhere, they practice religion, and believe most of what you all believe here, but yet you look down on them like less than equals.
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Old May 20th, 2012, 10:55 PM   #315
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It actually does mention "clam on Clam Action". "women Exchanged natural relationships and lusted after other women" or something like that.

This whole Homosexual issue is actually pretty hard for me...........

Wait for it......


Not because I'm homosexual or even have those Tendencies but I strive to follow Jesus's words (because I'm a Christ follower). "The two greatest Commandments are these; Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength, The second is Love your neighbor as your self".

But I also know that there a Laundry list of Sins that I know people think are ok nowadays. Homosexuality is one, Adultery is another, Idolatry could become our nations motto (JMO), and the list goes on. Those things are things that I know are sin. Some are things I struggle with. There is a Balance that is hard to find between Loving your neighbor as your self but also showing them how much they need God. It's hard and I think alot of my fellow Brothers and sisterss have gone about this the wrong way. And it really makes me sad.
You haven't addressed the issue of God wanting you to kill homosexuals. Christians keep pointing to God hating homosexuals (clam/clam, snausage/snausage, wutever)but you seem to be ignoring his COMMAND to kill those who gobble apendages that are similar to their own. Now I need to see something in the Bible that says "I don't want you to kill fags and dikes, I just want my followers not to ingest like kind reproductive goodies.". If you can't I will accuse you of being religious cherry pickers then do nothing more.
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Old May 20th, 2012, 11:01 PM   #316
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Because calling it a different name is akin to "separate but equal". Why don't we just make them drink from different fountains, and ride the back of the bus as well...

If marriage were only a religious institution I would agree with you, A la confirmation. But me being confirmed, does not get me any societal benefits, marriage does. Thats the difference, thats why everyone should have those benefits, and why it should be called marriage.

I view my marriage as a commitment to my wife and my wife to me. Its not a damn three way with religion being the third wheel. IF we wanted a tag along we would go find one, but just because we don't practice a religion (wife does from time to time) does not mean I am not "married" The only difference between my marriage and a homosexual one is my wife and I are straight.

General "you" comments to follow...
Also think about this.... There ARE homosexuals in your church. They are everywhere, they practice religion, and believe most of what you all believe here, but yet you look down on them like less than equals.
I don't look down on them. I don't get why people think that. I'm a sinner in need of Grace just like they are. I haven't done anything to make my self better then them.

My proposition is that the government should not use the term Marriage at all. Something else. For everybody. If they change the defintion for the Government of Marriage to include Gay marriage do you really think everyone will comply hunky dorry? No. They won't. They'll be forced to. I'm saying that if they are going to be forced to anyways why not just switch the name and save the paper work?
s Go from

"If your employee is Married/Civil Union/Farm Animal partner, they get bennies".

To

"If your employee has a Civil watermelon thier partner get's Bennies".


Seems like a win win to me. But I guess my opinion is biased because I'm a Gay hatin Christian. :shrug:
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Old May 20th, 2012, 11:11 PM   #317
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I don't look down on them. I don't get why people think that. I'm a sinner in need of Grace just like they are. I haven't done anything to make my self better then them.

My proposition is that the government should not use the term Marriage at all. Something else. For everybody. If they change the defintion for the Government of Marriage to include Gay marriage do you really think everyone will comply hunky dorry? No. They won't. They'll be forced to. I'm saying that if they are going to be forced to anyways why not just switch the name and save the paper work?
s Go from

"If your employee is Married/Civil Union/Farm Animal partner, they get bennies".

To

"If your employee has a Civil watermelon thier partner get's Bennies".


Seems like a win win to me. But I guess my opinion is biased because I'm a Gay hatin Christian. :shrug:
You don't, Aber does, and he's not alone. You are the exception, not the rule.

Why do you have to change the name though. What's good for you and me isn't for anyone else? Like I said, the use of the term marriage is now societal, and not religious, its not "desecrating marriage" as Aber wrote, unless you look down on those who are different.
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Old May 20th, 2012, 11:12 PM   #318
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You haven't addressed the issue of God wanting you to kill homosexuals. Christians keep pointing to God hating homosexuals (clam/clam, snausage/snausage, wutever)but you seem to be ignoring his COMMAND to kill those who gobble apendages that are similar to their own. Now I need to see something in the Bible that says "I don't want you to kill fags and dikes, I just want my followers not to ingest like kind reproductive goodies.". If you can't I will accuse you of being religious cherry pickers then do nothing more.
Give me the exact Verse that you're referencing and I'll get back to you. At the moment the Sermon on the mount comes to mind. Basically Jesus Lays down the smack down on his followers and says "you're not any better then them, you're all sinners"(paraphrased by Me). He also coins the phrased "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you". As well as giving 'the two greatest commandments" which are summations of ALL the laws of the Jewish faith. "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind and the second: Love your nieghbor as your self". Did I also mention I think it's the part where he says to Hate your enemies as your self too.

There are mulitple lists in Corinthians and various other books in the NT that lists sexual immorality as a sin. Some of them include Homosexuality and Adultery in it. It's been a while wince I really looked into this subject in depth. Maybe 5 or 5 years. It's starting to get a bit hazy.

Anywho, I have to go to bed because I have to build tipi's tomorrow and I barely got any sleep this weekend.
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Old May 20th, 2012, 11:40 PM   #319
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Anywho, I have to go to bed because I have to build tipi's tomorrow and I barely got any sleep this weekend.
Money troubles keeping you up?
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Old May 20th, 2012, 11:41 PM   #320
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Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
Give me the exact Verse that you're referencing and I'll get back to you. At the moment the Sermon on the mount comes to mind. Basically Jesus Lays down the smack down on his followers and says "you're not any better then them, you're all sinners"(paraphrased by Me). He also coins the phrased "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you". As well as giving 'the two greatest commandments" which are summations of ALL the laws of the Jewish faith. "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind and the second: Love your nieghbor as your self". Did I also mention I think it's the part where he says to Hate your enemies as your self too.

There are mulitple lists in Corinthians and various other books in the NT that lists sexual immorality as a sin. Some of them include Homosexuality and Adultery in it. It's been a while wince I really looked into this subject in depth. Maybe 5 or 5 years. It's starting to get a bit hazy.

Anywho, I have to go to bed because I have to build tipi's tomorrow and I barely got any sleep this weekend.
Crap, now you're gonna make me work. I'll see what I can find.

EDIT: Found it!

Leviticus 20:13 - "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads

There it is in God's own words. Why are Christians not advicating the murder of homosexuals? Because old Testiment? No, Jesus says ALL the old laws hold true. Religious cherry picking? I think so. I find it common practice that most *cough* all *cough* pick and choose from the Bible as they see fitting to their needs. Religious hypocricy drives me bonkers. I will say that I'm glad Christians don't go around killing every body the Bible tells them to. If they did, they would be called Muslims.

Last edited by Nuggets; May 20th, 2012 at 11:55 PM.
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