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Old May 17th, 2012, 10:41 PM   #221
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There is also kinds of reasons why it shouldn't be allowed. I look at the financial reasons but whats another trillion in debt that will result from Adam and Steve being "married" in the eyes of the law so one can be a worthless pos and collect benefits now since we are cool with the rules set for women who care for their kids but hey . . . I'm old fashioned so whatev!

I guess that since the Majority of Americans are against it and the Majority of the states that the US is old fashion but hey whatever . . pet projects are fun!!

Just like save the Trout and close Tellico!!
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Old May 17th, 2012, 11:14 PM   #222
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Don't fit the criteria? What criteria is need to get a marriage license?
Man + Women. That's the Criteria that alot of people think it should be. Union or Partnership, for everyone, would be fine with me.

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I am not sure if the root issue is the term "marriage" in regards to the union or not. Problem is in respect to spousal benefits like insurance and retirement/survivors benefits, those seem to require a "marriage." If they can not present a "marriage" license, no bennies.
That is a problem as well. I just think everyone should apply for something else and that could replace the term marriage. The only problem I can see is getting all the Organizations that provide Benefits to play along with that. Especially those that are Against homosexuality.


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I was being sarcastic in that our legal code has more pages than the bible. Seems you guys get it nailed down essentially with 10 rules.
2 Actually. Love God, love your Neighbors. The 10 can be summed up in those two. .


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If one solely believe the purpose of marriage is procreating... Sure, the parts don't match. Then there is everyone else that understands a marriage is not just a physical relationship, it is mental and emotional as well.
Well, I don't believe the only reason for marriage is Procreating but I do believe that Sex is an integral and very substantial part of a Marriage. The parts don't fit so the peices are not meant to be together. I mean, I can shove a Fork into an outlet and it will fit but that doesn't mean it's designed for it or it's good for me to try.

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The only reason I disagree with you here is the legality and definition of spousal benefits. Not many Government/private agencies recognize unions in regards to extending benefits. Some do and call them "partners" and extend them to straight couples who are not married as well.
So my question would be how would that change if they were allowed to get married? They still have to meat those criteria for those Private organizations that might not allow it. Just because the Government would recognize the Marriage doesn't mean a private group would. To take it a step further, the government wouldn't (or shouldn't) be able to force them to accept it either. So what would be the point in the first place?
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Old May 17th, 2012, 11:17 PM   #223
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You are a fool

You're right though, allowing Steve to make Steve's end of life medical decisions will cost you a cost prohibitive amount. That decision should be made by his estranged family who was too closed minded to accept their child for who he was, rather than who they wanted him to be. On top of that, the person who knows him best, can't even know how he is doing or get updates on his fatal condition because he isn't "family".

Get a clue about the issue before you comment on things. Human rights are more than a pork project.

You just lost all credibility..... if you ever had any.
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Old May 17th, 2012, 11:32 PM   #224
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Referencing my last post here...

Thats what this whole thing is about (Human rights), you all get that right? Its not about pissing on your precious religions rituals. It's about rights, and in society today"marriage" has more societal benefits than religious ones. Face it, you don't need a church to get married, and thusly, marriage is no longer a religious institution. There is no rational objection to not allowing two people to love each other and be afforded the things we straight people take for granted.
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Old May 18th, 2012, 12:03 AM   #225
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You are a fool

You're right though, allowing Steve to make Steve's end of life medical decisions will cost you a cost prohibitive amount. That decision should be made by his estranged family who was too closed minded to accept their child for who he was, rather than who they wanted him to be. On top of that, the person who knows him best, can't even know how he is doing or get updates on his fatal condition because he isn't "family".

Get a clue about the issue before you comment on things. Human rights are more than a pork project.

You just lost all credibility..... if you ever had any.
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Referencing my last post here...

Thats what this whole thing is about (Human rights), you all get that right? Its not about pissing on your precious religions rituals. It's about rights, and in society today"marriage" has more societal benefits than religious ones. Face it, you don't need a church to get married, and thusly, marriage is no longer a religious institution. There is no rational objection to not allowing two people to love each other and be afforded the things we straight people take for granted.
I don't know if you were referring to me or Woohaa, but I get it's human rights. My last train of thought that I was having with Opie was this. Do you really think that allowing them to be labeled that way will even change how Private organizations will treat them? Do they think that the one word is a magic word that will change every bodies opinion on it? I really don't think it will.

As far as religious rights/Societal rights. I think you're off on that. marriage is one of the main parellels that Christ uses to symbolize the church and him. It's a HUGE deal in the Christian Church. No wonder we get so frustrated when they want to use it for this issue.
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Old May 18th, 2012, 12:10 AM   #226
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hmmm. why is it that religion, which is responsible for more death and destruction than anything else in the world, be the main reason closed minded people are against 2 people who love each other joining together in marriage?
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Old May 18th, 2012, 12:11 AM   #227
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I don't know if you were referring to me or Woohaa, but I get it's human rights. My last train of thought that I was having with Opie was this. Do you really think that allowing them to be labeled that way will even change how Private organizations will treat them? Do they think that the one word is a magic word that will change every bodies opinion on it? I really don't think it will.

As far as religious rights/Societal rights. I think you're off on that. marriage is one of the main parellels that Christ uses to symbolize the church and him. It's a HUGE deal in the Christian Church. No wonder we get so frustrated when they want to use it for this issue.
My bad I thought I quoted the silly chief when I replied. People like you are less of an issue than aber and chiefwhoohaw.

But what you are saying is that people can't be afforded rights because marriage is used as a metaphor?


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Old May 18th, 2012, 12:13 AM   #228
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You are a fool

You're right though, allowing Steve to make Steve's end of life medical decisions will cost you a cost prohibitive amount. That decision should be made by his estranged family who was too closed minded to accept their child for who he was, rather than who they wanted him to be. On top of that, the person who knows him best, can't even know how he is doing or get updates on his fatal condition because he isn't "family".

Get a clue about the issue before you comment on things. Human rights are more than a pork project.

You just lost all credibility..... if you ever had any.
lots of win up there.
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Old May 18th, 2012, 12:46 AM   #229
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My bad I thought I quoted the silly chief when I replied. People like you are less of an issue than aber and chiefwhoohaw.

But what you are saying is that people can't be afforded rights because marriage is used as a metaphor?


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You probably also wanted to save the trout didnt you??
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Old May 18th, 2012, 05:33 AM   #230
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It is very difficult to explain to you about being a Christian because you have no idea why we believe and for what reasons.
You do not need to explain anything to me. I dont need to understand why your relationship with your God is important to you. You feel your relationship with God is just and right then carry on as you see fit. Where I take issue is when you use that relationship with God as justification to tell others how to live their lives. Live and let live. I realize evangelism is part of the Church, spreading the word of God and all that. But when you start denying others ability or right to live their lives as they see fit, do not start crying that you feel you will be persecuted in the future because you are a Christian.

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There is no hiding behind anything.
I stand up for what I believe to be the truth according to God's word and I will live it out and be bold about it.
Good for you. At least you believe in something. To many have no core principles. But YOU live it out. What you believe to be true and right will never be a universal fit for everyone else.

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Part of being a Christian is telling others about God. Then if people don't want to hear about it then you move on.
The gay movement has heard you. They are not interested. Move on.

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I can't change other peoples minds, only God can do that.
Besides in this country we do have the freedom to practice any religion we choose and I choose Jesus.
No one is telling you that you can not practice Christianity. But you are telling others they can not pursue a course that makes them happy based on your Christian principles.
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Old May 18th, 2012, 06:29 AM   #231
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Again, stop pushing religious beliefs on everyone else.
LOL - I think we misunderstand each other. I sometimes tell people Buddhism is the "clearest path for me" - but I never try to push religious beliefs upon anyone. The only thing I know for sure, with respect to religion, is that I am NOT God - so I don't pretend to think one religion is better or "Right".

You misread my example of the priests: I meant it as an example of the lengths some men will go to, trying to follow God's word and deny who they are inside. Ultimately, they are HUMAN (which is a valid "argument") and give in to their desires. You also seem to think I condone giving into one's desires and using it as justification to commit a crime - which is not the point I was trying to get across.

My point was simply this: I believe most of the cases of priests molesting boys are from denying they are gay and trying to be something they are not. I *think* if these men were to follow their feelings for other men and not join the priesthood - they very well may have never committed a crime against a child because they were actively gay their entire life.

I'm not sure if I got my point through - but if your penis is still hard, pm me your phone number.
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Old May 18th, 2012, 06:31 AM   #232
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I am feeling like it will be not to far off on the future that being a Christian will be something that Christians will be persecuted for. and we will be the minority
I'm not sure what the future holds for any religion - but I've convinced we've got about 100 years left on Earth before we take ourselves out.
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Old May 18th, 2012, 06:33 AM   #233
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Ive seen a few time previous where the word "allow" is used. Allowing someone to do something implies that consent and permission are needed. That is, IMO, the center point of the issue. Straight couples do not need permission from a Governing body to get married, why does anyone else?
Excellent point.
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Old May 18th, 2012, 06:40 AM   #234
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There's also scientific fact that eating bullshit like fast food leads to early death, a lack of exercise, etc, etc. Are you proposing we force people to be healthy?

Honestly, I laugh at the idea of American's being concerned about inbred/genetic deformed offspring when 50+ Million unborn have been killed in utero, or via "early birth" since Roe Vs. Wade.

Note, I'm not suggesting that it's my right as a man to tell any woman what to do with her body - but, as I have pointed out in previous examples, I find it very intriguing that this country has various laws on the books that codify someone causing a miscarriage to be tried as murder of the baby, but put a MD, or DO on the end of a "professional" performing it medically and it's suddenly legal.


Perhaps instead of arguing over marriage rights, we should be talking about scrapping our entire legal and judicial systems and starting over.

We have so damned many nonsensical and contradictory laws on the books, yet people spend more time looking for contradictions in the bible to shut the Christians up than trying to get our legal system 'fixed'.
You won't get any argument from me - "This town needs an enema!". Problem is - what's needed is a revolution - and there is not enough capable and willing people to lead a "war" against the government. They'll turn off the power, seize any electronic funds and have 99% of the population groveling on their knees begging forgiveness.

Though, why you see this as arguing just over marriage rights is odd: To me, this is about equality - and a fairly big "fuck you" to a significant portion of our society - just because you're different.
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Old May 18th, 2012, 06:43 AM   #235
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We all stand for something. We all have issues that either get us motivated or make us tune out.

At issue in this thread is gay marriage. Aber is against it, essentially persecuting homosexuals for their behavior by denying them the same things he may enjoy based on nothing but morality as defined by his religion. Yet finds no hypocrisy in his concern that he may be persecuted for his Christianity.

Bully indeed.

Or was this just your intro into the thread and something far more intelligent is yet to come?
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Old May 18th, 2012, 07:01 AM   #236
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You won't get any argument from me - "This town needs an enema!". Problem is - what's needed is a revolution - and there is not enough capable and willing people to lead a "war" against the government. They'll turn off the power, seize any electronic funds and have 99% of the population groveling on their knees begging forgiveness.

Though, why you see this as arguing just over marriage rights is odd: To me, this is about equality - and a fairly big "fuck you" to a significant portion of our society - just because you're different.
my extrapolation of that argument was in reference to the statement that yes, if we extend marriage rights to gays, then we should also extend them to incestual relations. your statement in that regard added a caveat that there would have to be some manner to limit incestual reproduction due to studies regarding inbreeding.

I pointed out that if you limit inbreeding for the purpose of avoiding future genetic freaks, then it sounded like heading down the slippery slope of mandating healthy lifestyles... of course it also seemed a nerf toss to mention that if it's ludicrous to talk about dodging the birth of inbred offspring if that's the point of it, when 50+ million unborn have been killed.

I don't consider some statistical number of +/- 5-10% (
LGBT_demographics_of_the_United_States LGBT_demographics_of_the_United_States
3.5% in april 2011 self identified as LGBT - let's double or triple that for closeted folks) to be a significant portion of our society. of the gays, how many do you really think are stupid enough to want to be locked into a government sanctioned contractual obligation to be monogamous? I would wager that most simply clamor for the right.

but, if we're going to dissect the population and discuss rights - roughly 1.7% of the US is mormon and some portion of them are also denied rights supposedly fundamental to their beliefs and desires...
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Old May 18th, 2012, 07:05 AM   #237
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How many people hide being Mormon?
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Old May 18th, 2012, 07:06 AM   #238
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BTW, there already is a direction to make us live healthier. Ask anyone that works for Ford's.
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Old May 18th, 2012, 08:05 AM   #239
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During my remodeling project at the shop, I wished I was gay so I could choose my paint colors easier.
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Old May 18th, 2012, 08:43 AM   #240
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How many people hide being Mormon?
Every rock star, most pro athletes and especially Tiger Woods?
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