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Old May 17th, 2012, 02:21 PM   #201
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Sanctity of marriage is bullshit. divorce rate 50% - 2,3,4 marriages? Marriage doesn't mean shit. Let anyone marry who they want and be as miserable as the rest of us. If you find something that works for you and doesn't effect anyone else, then good for you.
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Old May 17th, 2012, 04:28 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by ScOoTeR View Post
Christians != Catholics.

And have you given any thought as to why there seems to be so much molestation among the priesthood? Care to read my theory?

First of all, not all priests molest / rape children: for every one we hear about, (though I'm sure there are more that are not caught) there are THOUSANDS who do NOT molest boys. But as a profession, it seems like there is more than their fare share, and the type of transgression is quite ironic. Or, is it?
As I pointed out earlier, I never said all. The irony is in the fact that those who profess to follow Christ and denounce all that the bible says is bad, are doing what they are teaching others is sinful. The irony is the community, mainly parents, see the leaders of the church as trustworthy due to their position with the church, are abusing that trust in ways they are teaching their "flock" to be sinfull.

I did not intend to get into a discussion about this as it is OT from the OP. I was merely making a point that there are bigger issues that take direct effect on folks the Church can take up other than who is allowed to use the term marriage.

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Think of a young man, raised to know and love God: Upon reaching puberty, this young man finds he is attracted to other men and not at all interested in women. He knows in his heart how he feels, and he knows it is quite a sin in the lord's eyes. So, instead of sinning with other men, he makes a vow to the lord and becomes a priest. Perfect rationalization: "I can remain celibate and serve God - and maybe - he will grant me the strength to keep from sin."
So the priest grows older and lonelier, meanwhile, he has not lost strength and succumbed to his true feelings for other men. He is part of a church, knows and loves his "flock" and helps many in the community. Let's not forget, not for a moment, that a priest is still a man - and after many years of celibacy - starts the shenanigans among the some of the young boys he supervises, often alone.
My wifes out of town and my penis is hard cause Ive been thinking about my past girlfriends. Im going to go out and rape a young woman walking down the street. Its not my fault, my penis was hard.

Really? Thats nothing but making excuses.

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This man's only failing to this point was being human and trying to the best he could not to sin and to serve God. It's very sad. This is not to say that some priests are dirtbags / predators intentionally maneuvering to molest kids, statistics tells us it must exist too. But to denounce all Catholic priests as child molesters is no better than the crap Fred Phelps spews whenever there is a chance.
I do not see being Human as a detriment. That comes from scripture that we are imperfect. Again, stop pushing religious beliefs on everyone else.

I have not denounced all priests. I was using the issue to make a point. Not start a discussion about it.
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Old May 17th, 2012, 04:30 PM   #203
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There's a bit that's off with some of what you state - to me, anyway. I would be willing to bet that the homosexuals you see in gay pride demonstrations or "...tend to be so much in your face with homosexuality" are not the norm of the gay community -- such in the way that Child molesting priests, Fred Phelps and Televangelists are not the norm of the religious community.

I know that we have hard core homosexuals that are in your face look at me types and we have the group that is going about thier lives as normal as possible and trying to fit in. Then we have the ones that promote and push it on anybody that they can, and it is the young impressionable minds of children. It is thier agenda and they have so much as said it is.
Gay people have the right to be gay, nobody is saying they can't. But when you have people of faith telling them thier is another way and a life outside of the homosexual lifestyle you get people calling people of faith haters for suggesting that. You made a claim in your earlier quote about Christians wanting to invite and show others the love of God, that is all people of faith are attempting to do.


To the comment of "Staying in the closet" - though you may not be able to get your head around it (not saying this as an insult, as you're openly sharing your feelings and I have an idea of how you think about a few areas):

I was using that as a term something like the ones that blatently flault thier gayness. Like at Disney with children and families around. That just shows the disrespect to others that they have.

Think about if something that was a part of who you are was considered socially unacceptable by the majority. Something that was a part of the person you are to the core - where, in some instances, can get you ridiculed, beaten or even killed. Of course, I'm going to "pick on" your religion because I know how strong a religious faith you project in writing.

To pick on others because of race, religion and sexual preference is wrong.

Imagine how Christians would feel if the U.S.A. was taken over by Muslim Fundamentalists. No, I'm not comparing Christian views on homosexuality to the violence you'll find with some other religions - I'm just trying to create as stark and familiar feelings of how impossible for you to hide your love for God.
Anyway, think about going out in public - always being on guard, watching what you say, what you do. Never being able to truly & fully relax - to be who you are - just because you are different than the majority.

Remember - I am not trying to sway your opinions on homosexuality or convince you to accept it - I am only using your words to show you how you may not be giving much open thought to the issue.
I am feeling like it will be not to far off on the future that being a Christian will be something that Christians will be persecuted for. and we will be the minority
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Old May 17th, 2012, 04:33 PM   #204
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Is this thread still going on.........

Man we post a lot about non-sense.

Here's my 0.2 cents. I don't like the Idea of same sex unions, using a Biblical word, to "politically correct" and change the meaning of this word given to us by God. But I cant stop it. There doesn't need to be legislation on a "Word" description.
I agree.

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However, if you are going to allow "two people" to "marry" (as quoted by another post in this thread) why stop there? Do you have too many scruples to stop a man and a donkey from getting married, or lets say a Great Dane and a Woman, or a piglet and a rooster,..........and so on, and so on.
Ive seen a few time previous where the word "allow" is used. Allowing someone to do something implies that consent and permission are needed. That is, IMO, the center point of the issue. Straight couples do not need permission from a Governing body to get married, why does anyone else?
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Old May 17th, 2012, 05:12 PM   #205
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I just don't really get why this is such a big deal. Its two people, that apparently love each other, want to commit to each other, typically live nice quiet, tidy lives. Then we have massive divorce rates, spousal abuse, child abuse, on top of all of the other fucked up things in this world.

I just don't see how two gay people is a big concern and the big hot bed of controversy when the rest of this world is beyond fucked in almost every single aspect.
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I'd really like to hear aber or L4CX's opinions on this one.

I'm just curious as to why the faithful in this country seem to just zero in relentlessly on gays when there is sooooooooooooooooo much more incredibly horrible, fucked up shit going on every single day.
I've never gone after gays. I understand my place and the amount of Grace and mercy I've recieved from God. I don't agree with homosexuality and don't like something that my faith finds as a sin to mixed with one of the greatest things my Faith believes God created.

In the long run it really is just a pointless thing to argue about. I believe that is because Christians have an enemy who knows how to get us off track and make us ineffective in sharing the gospel. This is just one way he does this.

I think you'll also find that the only reason you hear about this only is because the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Go to a church, one that is growing and 'alive'. You won't find them talking about how horrible Gays are, you'll most likely hear them talk about trying to figure out ways to help thier community and support missionaries that have been part of thier church. How to reach thier friends and how to love on them in a way that Christ has.

The best way to answer your question would be to say this: We don't. A majority of Christians are the same opinion of me and don't just worry about why this world is F'ed up but try and do something about it.

On the other side of ^^that coin though is the fact that we believe that Christ is coming back. I know I can't wait for him to come back becuase then this world will be healed. Sin will be gone and it will function as it should have before the fall of man. The down side is that I want this day to come but don't at the same time because it would mean I am out of time to get my Friends and Family who do not believe to be able to come with me.

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Posts # 171 & 172 by Scooter.

Awesome thought process & very well put.
X a bajillion.

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If lc4x spent less time preaching on the internet he would probably be living above the poverty level.
I live above the poverty level by a couple grand. . My treasure is not money and 'preaching', or sharing my faith, is something I thoroughly enjoy. Also.....I have to do something when I'm waiting for my Son to get done eating so we can Hang out.


If you spent less time on the internet you could become some kind of Super welder certified wack job who thinks he's better then everybody else.....oh wait...Never mind.
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Old May 17th, 2012, 05:46 PM   #206
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Straight couples do not need permission from a Governing body to get married, why does anyone else?
They don't? Most places require a marriage license to get married.
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Old May 17th, 2012, 07:25 PM   #207
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They don't? Most places require a marriage license to get married.
Thats not permission. Thats recognition in the eyes of the law, IMO. However, some state agencies seem to think they have the authority to turn it into a matter of permission...

Has any straight couple been denied a marriage license? I just googled "can a marriage license be denied" and the hits on the first page all related to gay and biracial licenses being denied. So as long as you are straight, you are good to go.
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Old May 17th, 2012, 07:40 PM   #208
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Thats not permission. Thats recognition in the eyes of the law, IMO. However, some state agencies seem to think they have the authority to turn it into a matter of permission...

Has any straight couple been denied a marriage license? I just googled "can a marriage license be denied" and the hits on the first page all related to gay and biracial licenses being denied. So as long as you are straight, you are good to go.
Because you didn't go past the first page it must be true?

I'm sure if they don't have the legal right to, yes. A minor that hasn't gotten permission from parents (if you have to, I'm not sure). Someone who is already married would probably be denied.
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Old May 17th, 2012, 07:41 PM   #209
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I don't believe it is anyone's right to deny people the right to be a legal couple. If I had to consider the example you give, I don't think I could oppose a incestual union either - providing there were no children from natural birth.

There is scientific fact behind heath problems from inbreeding, but as far as I know, there is no evidence gay parents transform their children into gay adults.
There's also scientific fact that eating bullshit like fast food leads to early death, a lack of exercise, etc, etc. Are you proposing we force people to be healthy?

Honestly, I laugh at the idea of American's being concerned about inbred/genetic deformed offspring when 50+ Million unborn have been killed in utero, or via "early birth" since Roe Vs. Wade.

Note, I'm not suggesting that it's my right as a man to tell any woman what to do with her body - but, as I have pointed out in previous examples, I find it very intriguing that this country has various laws on the books that codify someone causing a miscarriage to be tried as murder of the baby, but put a MD, or DO on the end of a "professional" performing it medically and it's suddenly legal.


Perhaps instead of arguing over marriage rights, we should be talking about scrapping our entire legal and judicial systems and starting over.

We have so damned many nonsensical and contradictory laws on the books, yet people spend more time looking for contradictions in the bible to shut the Christians up than trying to get our legal system 'fixed'.
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Old May 17th, 2012, 08:27 PM   #210
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Because you didn't go past the first page it must be true?
Jumped to page 10, same hits.



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I'm sure if they don't have the legal right to, yes.
That is the issue, isnt it? The legal right to do something that has no basis for denial other than religious reasons.

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A minor that hasn't gotten permission from parents (if you have to, I'm not sure). Someone who is already married would probably be denied.
IMO, both of these are not issues the state needs to decide. Not sure why a parent would allow their minor child to get married, but thats none of my business.

If someone wants more than 1 spouse.... they should be free to do so as they see fit. Not an issue for the state to decide yea or nay and certainly none of my business.
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Old May 17th, 2012, 08:28 PM   #211
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We have so damned many nonsensical and contradictory laws on the books, yet people spend more time looking for contradictions in the bible to shut the Christians up than trying to get our legal system 'fixed'.
Its easier and the bible has less pages.
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Old May 17th, 2012, 08:31 PM   #212
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I am feeling like it will be not to far off on the future that being a Christian will be something that Christians will be persecuted for. and we will be the minority
Your going to be persecuted because you can not leave everyone else alone. It will have nothing to do with your Christianity, but since you hide behind it, it will be pegged as the reason for your persecution.
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Old May 17th, 2012, 08:39 PM   #213
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Because you didn't go past the first page it must be true?
Jumped around and read a few of the hits and found this gem...

http://blogs.babble.com/strollerderb...icense-denial/

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The AFP reports Charles Cooper, an attorney for Proposition 8′s campaign committee, Protect Marriage, has said during the trial “the purpose of the institution of marriage, the central purpose, is to promote procreation and to channel naturally procreative sexual activity between men and women in stable enduring unions.”
This is how out of touch some people are. The central purpose of marriage is to promote procreation? Think of all the couples out there, just married, living in sin not having kids.
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Old May 17th, 2012, 08:47 PM   #214
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I just kind of skipped over 9 pages of posts, so forgive me if this has already been said, but... has anyone questioned why the fukc the government has ANY say in marriage?

Hint: Marriage licenses, like many other laws (gun regulation, for example), was an idea bred from racism. Prior to 1923, you didn't need "permission" from the government to marry. Then they established the Uniform Marriage and Marriage License Act as a way of preventing interracial marriages. You now had to get a "marriage license," so the government could deny interracial couples the right to marry.

I say the government needs to get the hell out of marriage, period. "Marriage" should be defined by you, your church/synagogue/mosque/temple/etc and your pastor/rabbi/shaman/flyingspaghettimonster.

http://www.libertariannews.org/2011/...inst-humanity/
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Old May 17th, 2012, 08:50 PM   #215
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Your going to be persecuted because you can not leave everyone else alone. It will have nothing to do with your Christianity, but since you hide behind it, it will be pegged as the reason for your persecution.
Ah, ye of little faith picking on the guy that stands up for something. Bravo, all the bullies clap!
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Old May 17th, 2012, 08:58 PM   #216
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Ah, ye of little faith picking on the guy that stands up for something. Bravo, all the bullies clap!
He's defending those that can't against the Christian bullies. Also, Aber believes every conspiracy theory out there along with what he's told to believe by the Christian wacko web sites he uses to get his information.
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Old May 17th, 2012, 08:58 PM   #217
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Ah, ye of little faith picking on the guy that stands up for something. Bravo, all the bullies clap!
We all stand for something. We all have issues that either get us motivated or make us tune out.

At issue in this thread is gay marriage. Aber is against it, essentially persecuting homosexuals for their behavior by denying them the same things he may enjoy based on nothing but morality as defined by his religion. Yet finds no hypocrisy in his concern that he may be persecuted for his Christianity.

Bully indeed.

Or was this just your intro into the thread and something far more intelligent is yet to come?
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Old May 17th, 2012, 09:08 PM   #218
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Jumped to page 10, same hits.

Yeah, I figured. Didn't look. It just sounded like one of those "I saw it on the internet so it must be true" kind of things.

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That is the issue, isnt it? The legal right to do something that has no basis for denial other than religious reasons.
Well, one good reason to deny someone is because they don't fit the Criteria for what they are applying for. At least, that's how alot of us Conservative people think. It would be just as simple to call a 'marriage' something else. Why is it such a big deal that it be called a Marriage? Seriously. If all they want is the benefits (not rights, because they are not rights) of a marriage, then call it something different, for everyone.




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Its easier and the bible has less pages.
Don't forget the fact that, for some odd reason, a man who has studied and researched the bible (compared to a Laywer or judge) is just some Crazy bible thumper instead of a Credible source for understanding the text of the book.

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This is how out of touch some people are. The central purpose of marriage is to promote procreation? Think of all the couples out there, just married, living in sin not having kids.
And I would argue that people that think Same sex marriage is possible (as in, using the term marriage) are just as "out there". I don't take it as far as the group but do kind of think "The parts don't match".

That being said though, It's thier choice. Make the term something else and I wouldn't have any issue with it.
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Old May 17th, 2012, 09:24 PM   #219
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Yeah, I figured. Didn't look. It just sounded like one of those "I saw it on the internet so it must be true" kind of things.
Yes, hard to discern on the net I know. I fall victim to the phenom sometimes but try to dig a little to make sure Im not doing it.

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Well, one good reason to deny someone is because they don't fit the Criteria for what they are applying for. At least, that's how alot of us Conservative people think.
Don't fit the criteria? What criteria is need to get a marriage license?

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It would be just as simple to call a 'marriage' something else. Why is it such a big deal that it be called a Marriage? Seriously. If all they want is the benefits (not rights, because they are not rights) of a marriage, then call it something different, for everyone.
I am not sure if the root issue is the term "marriage" in regards to the union or not. Problem is in respect to spousal benefits like insurance and retirement/survivors benefits, those seem to require a "marriage." If they can not present a "marriage" license, no bennies.

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Don't forget the fact that, for some odd reason, a man who has studied and researched the bible (compared to a Laywer or judge) is just some Crazy bible thumper instead of a Credible source for understanding the text of the book.
I was being sarcastic in that our legal code has more pages than the bible. Seems you guys get it nailed down essentially with 10 rules.

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And I would argue that people that think Same sex marriage is possible (as in, using the term marriage) are just as "out there". I don't take it as far as the group but do kind of think "The parts don't match".
If one solely believe the purpose of marriage is procreating... Sure, the parts don't match. Then there is everyone else that understands a marriage is not just a physical relationship, it is mental and emotional as well.

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That being said though, It's thier choice. Make the term something else and I wouldn't have any issue with it.
The only reason I disagree with you here is the legality and definition of spousal benefits. Not many Government/private agencies recognize unions in regards to extending benefits. Some do and call them "partners" and extend them to straight couples who are not married as well.
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Old May 17th, 2012, 09:41 PM   #220
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Your going to be persecuted because you can not leave everyone else alone. It will have nothing to do with your Christianity, but since you hide behind it, it will be pegged as the reason for your persecution.
It is very difficult to explain to you about being a Christian because you have no idea why we believe and for what reasons.
There is no hiding behind anything.
I stand up for what I believe to be the truth according to God's word and I will live it out and be bold about it.
Part of being a Christian is telling others about God. Then if people don't want to hear about it then you move on.
I can't change other peoples minds, only God can do that.
Besides in this country we do have the freedom to practice any religion we choose and I choose Jesus.
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