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Old April 13th, 2012, 12:49 PM   #281
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Originally Posted by whiterhino View Post
Apples and oranges there sonny. If I am innocently following someone, I am not being aggressive. If I am following someone at a distance and maintaining that distance, I am not being aggressive BUT I may be giving them reason to become uneasy and possibly confront me. If I make an effort to get ahead of them and confront them, I am definitely being aggressive.

Bruce,
Sorry for the misquote. And, you may be correct. I don't think anyone knows. I am purely stating that "IF" Z made an effort to get ahead of M, he deserves some credit for escalating the situation.
I have a question; the statement "cut off, get ahead of, get in front of" has been used by people here as well as in the media.
How is this possible?
I mean, did Z know where M was going? I didn't see anywhere, where they said he did. In fact the 911 call said he lost where M was.
If Z did not know where M was going, how can he cut M off, or get ahead.
It looks good on the map where Z got between M and the Girlfriends, dad's house,..............but did Z know about the house, girlfriend, or even if M was headed to a specific residence in the developement?

I don't see how, Z could be the aggesser, just because of the geological location of said path of M.
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Old April 13th, 2012, 12:53 PM   #282
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I have a question, the statement "cut off, get ahead of, get in front of" has been used by people here as well as in the media.
How is this possible?
I mean, did Z know where M was going? I didn't see anywhere, where they said he did. In fact the 911 call said he lost where M was.
If Z did not know where M was going, how can he cut M off, or get ahead.
It looks good on the map where Z got between M and the Girlfriends, dad's house,..............but did Z know about the house, girlfriend, or even if M was headed to a specific residence in the developement.

I don't see how, Z could be the aggesser, just because of the geological location of said path of M.
Z said in the phone call that he thought M was headed for the back entrance, which would have been in the same direction as M's dad's gf's palce.
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Old April 13th, 2012, 12:54 PM   #283
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None of us know. That will be the point of the trial. I don't believe the DA's office has issued charges just because of public pressure. They would be stupid to do that.
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Old April 13th, 2012, 12:58 PM   #284
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Z said in the phone call that he thought M was headed for the back entrance, which would have been in the same direction as M's dad's gf's palce.

..........Did Z know M, before this?

The confrontation (from the map) had several residents in between the dad's house and the confrontation. How did he know which house, without knowing Z prior?

If they had history, its a different ball game to me.
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Old April 13th, 2012, 01:17 PM   #285
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Originally Posted by FORD FLARESIDE View Post
..........Did Z know M, before this?

The confrontation (from the map) had several residents in between the dad's house and the confrontation. How did he know which house, without knowing Z prior?

If they had history, its a different ball game to me.
As far as I know there was no prior contact. Z did not even know that M was staying there at all, much less where he might be staying.

All Z knew was that M came in through the front gate, and after being spotted began running in the direction of the back gate. What assumption would you make under those circumstances?
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Old April 13th, 2012, 01:20 PM   #286
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As far as I know there was no prior contact. Z did not even know that M was staying there at all, much less where he might be staying.

All Z knew was that M came in through the front gate, and after being spotted began running in the direction of the back gate. What assumption would you make under those circumstances?

Good, point......the fact that M knew where the back gate was would give the understanding that he was familiar with the topo.
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Old April 13th, 2012, 01:47 PM   #287
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Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
As far as I know there was no prior contact. Z did not even know that M was staying there at all, much less where he might be staying.

All Z knew was that M came in through the front gate, and after being spotted began running in the direction of the back gate. What assumption would you make under those circumstances?
Interesting choice of words, why would he be running if he wasn't guilty of anything or doing anything suspiscious?

Clearly he wasn't afraid of Z based on all accounts that he was able to kick Z's ass......so why run?

Was the gun flashed? Had Z asked him to stop and he ran?
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Old April 13th, 2012, 05:15 PM   #288
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None of us know. That will be the point of the trial. I don't believe the DA's office has issued charges just because of public pressure. They would be stupid to do that.
What else would explain why it took so long to file charges? You'd have to be crazy not to think that it was due to public pressure.
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Old April 13th, 2012, 05:29 PM   #289
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Originally Posted by whiterhino View Post
Apples and oranges there sonny. If I am innocently following someone, I am not being aggressive. If I am following someone at a distance and maintaining that distance, I am not being aggressive BUT I may be giving them reason to become uneasy and possibly confront me. If I make an effort to get ahead of them and confront them, I am definitely being aggressive.
Bruce,
Sorry for the misquote. And, you may be correct. I don't think anyone knows. I am purely stating that "IF" Z made an effort to get ahead of M, he deserves some credit for escalating the situation.
for someone how doesn't like to infringe on personal freedoms I'm suprised you would take this stance. I can walk, follow, get as close to someone, get in front of them all I want. It doesn't matter how it makes them feel, it is not considered agressive, and is not illegal.
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Old April 13th, 2012, 06:57 PM   #290
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Originally Posted by High Center Hancho View Post
for someone how doesn't like to infringe on personal freedoms I'm suprised you would take this stance. I can walk, follow, get as close to someone, get in front of them all I want. It doesn't matter how it makes them feel, it is not considered agressive, and is not illegal.
You actually make my point. If I were walking along minding my own business, having done nothing wrong, and not intending to do something wrong, and then I see someone following me, I am likely to feel like that person is being aggressive towards me, or up to no good. My basic attitude is ~ leave me alone unless you have a reason to bother me.
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Old April 13th, 2012, 07:41 PM   #291
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So if you're rude to me in a verbal confrontation, I can kick your ass and that's ok? You should just sit there and take it and not defend your life?

Makes sense...
I won't be on a power trip, with the mission impossible theme playing through my head, while stalking you through the dark - stop reaching to try to prove an invalid point.

That's what nobody seems to get: If zimmerman would've kept to himself, martin wouldn't be dead.
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Old April 13th, 2012, 07:58 PM   #292
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I won't be on a power trip, with the mission impossible theme playing through my head, while stalking you through the dark - stop reaching to try to prove an invalid point.

That's what nobody seems to get: If zimmerman would've kept to himself, martin wouldn't be dead.
EVERYONE UNDERSTANDS THAT!!!!

If Zimmerman never would've left his house, none of it would have happened either. That isn't the fucking point.
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Old April 13th, 2012, 07:59 PM   #293
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I won't be on a power trip, with the mission impossible theme playing through my head, while stalking you through the dark - stop reaching to try to prove an invalid point.

That's what nobody seems to get: If zimmerman would've kept to himself, martin wouldn't be dead.
Or if Martin wouldnt have attacked Zimmerman he wouldnt have been shot. Z thought M was up to no good. What good is neighborhood watch if they cant follow or keep an eye on people that might be up to no good?
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Old April 14th, 2012, 04:22 AM   #294
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You actually make my point. If I were walking along minding my own business, having done nothing wrong, and not intending to do something wrong, and then I see someone following me, I am likely to feel like that person is being aggressive towards me, or up to no good. My basic attitude is ~ leave me alone unless you have a reason to bother me.
If I had done nothing wrong and I saw someone walking behind me following the same path as myself, I would likely feel like that person was going to a similar destination as myself. I would leave him alone as long as he left me alone.
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Old April 14th, 2012, 04:28 AM   #295
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That's what nobody seems to get: If zimmerman would've kept to himself, martin wouldn't be dead.
I get that. If Zimmerman didn't care about his community, if he didn't volunteer to be part of the neighborhood watch, if he didn't care about the fact that his neighbors were getting robbed, if he just ignored the crime that was going one in his community and just worried about himself, none of this would have happened.

It's too bad he cared, it has surely fucked up his life.
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Old April 14th, 2012, 06:17 AM   #296
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If I had done nothing wrong and I saw someone walking behind me following the same path as myself, I would likely feel like that person was going to a similar destination as myself. I would leave him alone as long as he left me alone.
And if by chance that person then approaches me in an unfriendly manner?

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I get that. If Zimmerman didn't care about his community, if he didn't volunteer to be part of the neighborhood watch, if he didn't care about the fact that his neighbors were getting robbed, if he just ignored the crime that was going one in his community and just worried about himself, none of this would have happened.

It's too bad he cared, it has surely fucked up his life.
I get that, and I support him caring and all that goes with it. But, did he take it a step too far? That is the question we can't answer.
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Old April 14th, 2012, 07:55 AM   #297
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I get that. If Zimmerman didn't care about his community, if he didn't volunteer to be part of the neighborhood watch, if he didn't care about the fact that his neighbors were getting robbed, if he just ignored the crime that was going one in his community and just worried about himself, none of this would have happened.

It's too bad he cared, it has surely fucked up his life.
My personal take on this thing is that Z was in it for the power, not to help his neighbors. From the things I've read, Z had authority and aggression issues. His job on Neighborhood Watch was to call the police if he spotted something, nothing more. The fact that he continued to pursue the suspect after being advised not to leads me to believe he wanted to assert his (percieved) authority on the suspect.

I'm not saying T was good or bad, my information about him has been unreliable at this point. I just believe that Z made some bad decisions on his part.
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Old April 14th, 2012, 10:07 AM   #298
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EVERYONE UNDERSTANDS THAT!!!!

If Zimmerman never would've left his house, none of it would have happened either. That isn't the fucking point.
Yes. It. Is.

Since Zimmerman:

1. Was armed with a firearm
2. Took the initiative to follow Martin
3. Shot and killed Martin

Zimmerman is responsible for Martin's death. Have you ever had, or did you just not fucking pay attention in your CCW class that explains the responsibilities you shoulder when carrying a sidearm and the increased scrutiny you must give every potential situation when carrying?
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Old April 14th, 2012, 10:12 AM   #299
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Or if Martin wouldnt have attacked Zimmerman he wouldnt have been shot. Z thought M was up to no good. What good is neighborhood watch if they cant follow or keep an eye on people that might be up to no good?
Neighborhood "Watch". What part of that implies anything but watching? Neighborhood Watch does not equal "Neighborhood Watch, Follow, Confront, Shoot".
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Old April 14th, 2012, 10:12 AM   #300
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I'm not saying T was good or bad, my information about him has been unreliable at this point. I just believe that Z made some bad decisions on his part.
Z pulled the trigger. if it was self defense i would have expected the police to have found some type of weapon used/carried/dropped by T. or Z to be in devistatingly black and blue status. Mace or Taser would be more reasonable to carry when on neighborhood watch when you are seeking out suspicious persons.

a gun? more like defense of your castle against invaders.
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