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Old March 19th, 2012, 01:42 AM   #21
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ya i see big corperations like this dont have dot numbers. theres got to be a loop hole in the system somewhere. if you read the laws it states anything for a profit requires dot numbers.

any buddy in the loop will know that they are cracking down big time down to the T for this.

they are cracking down on anything from race teams to horse trailers leaving the show. farmers at auctions. most farmers dont run names on their trucks anyhow besides heavy trucks.

also if they are over 10,001 pounds i have heard about them getting ticketed in their pick up's for not having the correct endorsements as well.
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Old March 19th, 2012, 07:46 AM   #22
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from what I'm reading there are some incorrect interpretations by law enforcement in some cases...unless MI has stricter regulations than FMCSA
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Old March 19th, 2012, 07:58 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hosejockey4506 View Post
Wrong
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Originally Posted by tom77cj5 View Post
This. You don't need dot ##s under 10000 if you don't pull a trailer for work
This may be the correct answer. I work on a lot of commercial pickups and I believe they are either over 10000 GVW or combinend vehicle over 10000 GVW. I know the landscape guys with small trucks and modest trailers are getting pulled over in my area if they don't have DOT numbers.
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Old March 19th, 2012, 08:00 AM   #24
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The truf will set you free!

Here is 1. Question: Who needs to obtain a Michigan Intrastate USDOT number?
Answer: All carriers or operators of commercial motor vehicles that operate solely in the state of Michigan. A Commercial Motor Vehicle means any self-propelled or towed motor vehicle used on a highway in commerce as defined in Act 181, PA 1963, CFR 49, part 390.5 when the vehicle:
o Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating, or gross vehicle weight or gross combination weight, of 10,001 lbs. or more, whichever is greater; or
o Is designed or used to transport more than 8 passengers (including the driver) for compensation; or
o Is designed or used to transport more than 15 passengers, including the driver, and is not used to transport passengers for compensation; or
o Is used in transporting material found by the Secretary of Transportation to be hazardous under 49 U.S.C. 51 transported in a quantity requiring placarding under regulations prescribed by the Secretary under 49 CFR, subtitle B, chapter 1, subchapter C.
2. Question: Who is included in the term commercial motor vehicle in commerce?
Answer: Anyone who operates one of the above mentioned vehicles. Examples include, but are not limited to: private and for-hire companies, farmers, construction companies, plumbers, landscapers, church buses, and limousines. Recreational and personal use vehicles are excluded.
3. Question: What are the requirements for lettering my vehicle?
Answer: 49 CFR part 390.21 states the marking must display the following information:
o The legal name or a single trade name of the motor carrier operating the self-propelled CMV, as listed on the motor carrier identification report (Form MCS–150)
o The motor carrier identification number issued by the FMCSA, preceded by the letters "USDOT"
o If the name of any person other than the operating carrier appears on the CMV, the name of the operating carrier must be followed by the information required in the above paragraphs, and be preceded by the words "operated by"
o Be in letters that contrast sharply in color with the background on which the letters are placed;
o Be readily legible, during daylight hours, from a distance of 50 feet (15.24 meters) while the CMV is stationary; and
The marking section does not apply to a truck eligible for and registered under a farm or manufacturer license plate, that has a gross vehicle weight of less than 10,000 pounds. These vehicles still must obtain a USDOT number.the correct information. I guess I was right the first time.
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Old March 19th, 2012, 08:15 AM   #25
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I was pulled over on my way home from Michigan CAT last year with a 2/3 grapple for a CAT 330 (for personal use) being pulled by a personally titled vehicle (F250) on a tag trailer and got slapped with a huge ticket because we didn't have our DOT# on the truck.

If you have applied for, or have a DOT# you can call the MDOT office and have an officer come out and explain everything to you. They came to my house and went over all the record keepping proceedures and did an audit of my driver logs (I was also running 4 tractor trailers at the time) It was very helpful and informative and saved me a lot of money in the long run.
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Old March 19th, 2012, 10:37 AM   #26
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I was pulled over on my way home from Michigan CAT last year with a 2/3 grapple for a CAT 330 (for personal use) being pulled by a personally titled vehicle (F250) on a tag trailer and got slapped with a huge ticket because we didn't have our DOT# on the truck.
MSP Motor Carriers consider ALL construction equipment commercial equipment regardless of whether it is or not. That does not mean it is illegal, That is what the MSP policy is. (I was told this by a Sergeant in the Motor Carrier Division)

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Old March 19th, 2012, 10:42 AM   #27
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Wrong. I drive a pickup for work. Never have DOT# on the side. I work for a very, very large company. If it was required, it would be there.
I can see where this would be logical to think that they know what they are doing, but not a very good way to decide if something is legal or not.
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Old March 19th, 2012, 10:44 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by fukkinrizzo View Post
MSP Motor Carriers consider ALL construction equipment commercial equipment regardless of whether it is or not. That does not mean it is illegal, That is what the MSP policy is.
I have a set of private numbers on magnetic signs stuck on the inside doors of my 818 just in case I am hauling my hoe or some other construction equipment.

I don't need the DOT number for personal use, but I use them to keep the DOT off my back.


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Originally Posted by Nuggets View Post
The truf will set you free!

Here is 1. Question: Who needs to obtain a Michigan Intrastate USDOT number?
Answer: All carriers or operators of commercial motor vehicles that operate solely in the state of Michigan. A Commercial Motor Vehicle means any self-propelled or towed motor vehicle used on a highway in commerce as defined in Act 181, PA 1963, CFR 49, part 390.5 when the vehicle:
o Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating, or gross vehicle weight or gross combination weight, of 10,001 lbs. or more, whichever is greater; or
o Is designed or used to transport more than 8 passengers (including the driver) for compensation; or
o Is designed or used to transport more than 15 passengers, including the driver, and is not used to transport passengers for compensation; or
o Is used in transporting material found by the Secretary of Transportation to be hazardous under 49 U.S.C. 51 transported in a quantity requiring placarding under regulations prescribed by the Secretary under 49 CFR, subtitle B, chapter 1, subchapter C.
2. Question: Who is included in the term commercial motor vehicle in commerce?
Answer: Anyone who operates one of the above mentioned vehicles. Examples include, but are not limited to: private and for-hire companies, farmers, construction companies, plumbers, landscapers, church buses, and limousines. Recreational and personal use vehicles are excluded.
3. Question: What are the requirements for lettering my vehicle?
Answer: 49 CFR part 390.21 states the marking must display the following information:
o The legal name or a single trade name of the motor carrier operating the self-propelled CMV, as listed on the motor carrier identification report (Form MCS–150)
o The motor carrier identification number issued by the FMCSA, preceded by the letters "USDOT"
o If the name of any person other than the operating carrier appears on the CMV, the name of the operating carrier must be followed by the information required in the above paragraphs, and be preceded by the words "operated by"
o Be in letters that contrast sharply in color with the background on which the letters are placed;
o Be readily legible, during daylight hours, from a distance of 50 feet (15.24 meters) while the CMV is stationary; and
The marking section does not apply to a truck eligible for and registered under a farm or manufacturer license plate, that has a gross vehicle weight of less than 10,000 pounds. These vehicles still must obtain a USDOT number.the correct information. I guess I was right the first time.
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Old March 19th, 2012, 11:02 AM   #29
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Just to Note: other States define this their own way...
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Old March 19th, 2012, 12:34 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuggets View Post
The truf will set you free!

1. Question: Who needs to obtain a Michigan Intrastate USDOT number?
Answer: All carriers or operators of commercial motor vehicles that operate solely in the state of Michigan. A Commercial Motor Vehicle means any self-propelled or towed motor vehicle used on a highway in commerce as defined in Act 181, PA 1963, CFR 49, part 390.5 when the vehicle:
o Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating, or gross vehicle weight or gross combination weight, of 10,001 lbs. or more, whichever is greater;
2. Question: Who is included in the term commercial motor vehicle in commerce?
Answer: Anyone who operates one of the above mentioned vehicles. Examples include, but are not limited to: private and for-hire companies, farmers, construction companies, plumbers, landscapers, church buses, and limousines. Recreational and personal use vehicles are excluded.

Nuggets:

I found this also on the States web site...thanks though. Based on this I believe as long as I do not pull a trailer that puts me over 10,001 lbs, I'm excluded.
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Old March 19th, 2012, 01:14 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by 46flattie View Post
Nuggets:

I found this also on the States web site...thanks though. Based on this I believe as long as I do not pull a trailer that puts me over 10,001 lbs, I'm excluded.
you are also excluded, if you are not a commercial vehicle. get two blank magnetic signs and cover up the lettering on your vehicle.
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Old March 19th, 2012, 06:05 PM   #32
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I agree and good call.
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Old March 19th, 2012, 07:16 PM   #33
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We've been trying to figure this out for camp. We are a non-profit and our CEO wants us to put our name on the side of all our new trucks. Our lawyer, which every camp has to have, told us we should be ok because we are non-profit. The posts here would lead me to believe that we are only good as long as we don't haul a trailer that puts us over the 10,000 weight limit. Is this correct?

I don't think we ever haul anything more then 3K and our heaviest truck rating is 7Kish, I think. Another question, is mobile scissor lift considered construction equipment? That's about all we've ever hauled any distance with our trucks.
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Old March 19th, 2012, 07:49 PM   #34
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We've been trying to figure this out for camp. We are a non-profit and our CEO wants us to put our name on the side of all our new trucks. Our lawyer, which every camp has to have, told us we should be ok because we are non-profit. The posts here would lead me to believe that we are only good as long as we don't haul a trailer that puts us over the 10,000 weight limit. Is this correct?

I don't think we ever haul anything more then 3K and our heaviest truck rating is 7Kish, I think. Another question, is mobile scissor lift considered construction equipment? That's about all we've ever hauled any distance with our trucks.
Its not if you are pulling iver 10k it is the capacity, so just about any pickup with a trailer will have the capacity to be 10k. My 2500hd has a gvwr of like 9500lbs so if I throw a trailer behind it capable of being over 500lbs I need a dot.

And not sure how you fall in being nonprofit, but I imagine you still need a dot no
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Old March 19th, 2012, 08:07 PM   #35
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Its not if you are pulling iver 10k it is the capacity, so just about any pickup with a trailer will have the capacity to be 10k. My 2500hd has a gvwr of like 9500lbs so if I throw a trailer behind it capable of being over 500lbs I need a dot.
Based on my interpretation, I believe this to be correct IF you are a commercial vehicle (CMV). However, there is an exclusion that appears to allow you to occasionally pull a personal trailer (camper, car hauler, etc.) w/your CMV w/o having USDOT requirements....but you may have to prove it if the MSP interpret your load as commercial.

Not sure how a non-profit fits in.....but my guess is commercial...check out some the links posted above or on pg1.


Again, thanks for all the input. I'm not trying to dodge the law, just make sure I am operating w/in it!
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Old March 19th, 2012, 08:15 PM   #36
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Its not if you are pulling iver 10k it is the capacity, so just about any pickup with a trailer will have the capacity to be 10k. My 2500hd has a gvwr of like 9500lbs so if I throw a trailer behind it capable of being over 500lbs I need a dot.

And not sure how you fall in being nonprofit, but I imagine you still need a dot no
That makes sense I guess. I always get actual and 'rated' weights mixed up for some odd reason.

The non-profit part comes into play with all the "Only for compensation" exemptions/inclusions. We 'technically" don't get any compensation, I think. I don't know, I'm just a Maintenance guy.
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Old March 19th, 2012, 08:34 PM   #37
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We've been trying to figure this out for camp. We are a non-profit and our CEO wants us to put our name on the side of all our new trucks. Our lawyer, which every camp has to have, told us we should be ok because we are non-profit. The posts here would lead me to believe that we are only good as long as we don't haul a trailer that puts us over the 10,000 weight limit. Is this correct?

I don't think we ever haul anything more then 3K and our heaviest truck rating is 7Kish, I think. Another question, is mobile scissor lift considered construction equipment? That's about all we've ever hauled any distance with our trucks.
You will need a chauffeurs endorsement, though. Simple knowledge test at the SOS.

Also, MDOT doesn't look at actual weights, they look at GVWR and GCWR. You may only be carrying 3,000 pounds on your trailer (load + the trailer itself) but if its GWR is over 10,000,.....
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Old March 19th, 2012, 08:46 PM   #38
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You will need a chauffeurs endorsement, though. Simple knowledge test at the SOS.

Also, MDOT doesn't look at actual weights, they look at GVWR and GCWR. You may only be carrying 3,000 pounds on your trailer (load + the trailer itself) but if its GWR is over 10,000,.....
Yeah, I have a Chauffeur and CDL-B with P,S and Air brakes. Drove a School bus for 5 years. I just always forget the rated weight is king instead of the actual weight. We don't have to worry about that to much with Pupil Transportation. We are rarely over weight. Usually we only get close when the foot ball team is all suited up.

Your average 78 Pass school bus is rated at ~ 33,000 but only wieghts ~18,000 empty. We are also exempt from many of the DOT laws. Including DOT numbers.

BTW, our boss mentioned that they may be chaning the law for DOT #'s very soon. As in, it's in the house and has passed the senate. I think he said it would only require a DOT with a GVWR of 26,000 or more.
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Old March 19th, 2012, 09:08 PM   #39
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I think the DOT number is a good idea. I wish it was used more as an education tool, rather than a money generator by simply enforcing the numbers. Id like to see more enforcement of safety violations. IMO any vehicle licensed, registered or used in a commercial capacity should fall under the same pre/post inspection rules as larger vehicles.

I work for Granger, and I see things come into the landfill that shouldn't be on the road or the operator clearly needs to be taught how to do a walk around. AND learn how to maneuver a trailer in both directions.
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Old March 19th, 2012, 10:47 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 46flattie View Post
Based on my interpretation, I believe this to be correct IF you are a commercial vehicle (CMV). However, there is an exclusion that appears to allow you to occasionally pull a personal trailer (camper, car hauler, etc.) w/your CMV w/o having USDOT requirements....but you may have to prove it if the MSP interpret your load as commercial.
Yes, sorry, that is what I meant, forgot to mention the CMV part



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I think the DOT number is a good idea. I wish it was used more as an education tool, rather than a money generator by simply enforcing the numbers. Id like to see more enforcement of safety violations. IMO any vehicle licensed, registered or used in a commercial capacity should fall under the same pre/post inspection rules as larger vehicles.

I work for Granger, and I see things come into the landfill that shouldn't be on the road or the operator clearly needs to be taught how to do a walk around. AND learn how to maneuver a trailer in both directions.

I agree with that thinking, but somehow those guys dont seem to get hassled, I think the cops know they dont have the money and wont pay or something. Everyone I know or have seen pulled over for this crap has been in a newer legit looking vehicle. Also more and more cities are getting there own weighmasters too now.

I hope the new law bringing it all back up to 26k passes, this shit is so annoying to worry about.
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