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Old March 6th, 2012, 03:13 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by WSU JK View Post
I would consider my probable vote for Obama as more of a vote against the Republican candidates than as a vote for the Democratic party.
Why wouldn't you vote 3rd party then?
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Old March 6th, 2012, 03:19 PM   #62
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^This.

This is a good thread. No real bashing going on and allot of great points.
I think so too. It takes not the the actions of a few right now, but the actions of a collective many with the same morals, ethics, qualities and backbone to make a voice that is to be heard by the voted-in few, that speak for the many, that may and I stress may, make a difference.

We have been convinced that the few that we vote in to represent the many, have the power and that no matter what, they have the final say. This is not the case. They are representatives for us, not to us. We are victims of a multitude of circumstances that have shaped the political and economical landscape into one that is difficult to navigate because we are not permitted because of our status. Some of the circumstances are cause-and-effect adn some are the bi-product of what we have been to blind to see coming to fruition. Again, this is an effective way to keep the middle class out of the way of the elitist's and their agenda. We are a nation of people that have been sold on the fact that the political specifics are too complicated for us to handle and that we should just let the politicians "handle" these problems. We have been conditioned to not think for ourselves and the notion of such is nearly illegal and looked upon in some cases as an "act against the state".

We need to understand that "Government" itself isn't the problem, it is the solution for itself when itself has grown un-govern-able, a symptom of its size. It's size does not insinuate that small government can only govern a small nation and a large government can govern a large nation. It insinuates that it is efficient in its roll to represent the nation as a whole, again something that rattles the agenda of the elite few.

Small, efficient, pointed, direct, concise and sharp. If you want a government that actually performs the way that the many need it to, it needs to be small, regardless of party. Although I believe that it does not come down to party, sides, weather you swing left or right, up or down, I do believe that if it were governed by laws that were written a few thousand years ago, we would be in a much better place. I am not the only one that thinks this way, as it was the reason that the notion of "One nation, Under GOD, indivisable, with liberty and justice for all" came to be.
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Old March 6th, 2012, 03:23 PM   #63
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So let me make sure I'm understanding what you are looking for.

You are looking for someone that believes the president as an individual person is responsible for something positive that has happened in the last 3.5 years and is therefor voting for him based on that?
Kinda.

I get that the sentiment post Bush was pretty much anyone non-Republican. I was just interested to see if all of the Obama supporters this time around were the same mindset or if they actually believed that he has done a great job as President.

So far no one has said that his presidential skills are why they are voting for him. It seems as though people are voting for the institution of or as in some cases anti - .
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Old March 6th, 2012, 03:27 PM   #64
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Why wouldn't you vote 3rd party then?
Because I don't particularly like any of the third party platforms more than I like the Obama platform.

The closest for me would be the Libertarian party, which I used to associate with rather strongly, but I've changed my views over time and have come to think that we do need a strong social safety net (I know many on here feel otherwise, but that's a different debate altogether) and I just don't think that the private sector would be able to provide it, especially in the short term. I guess the older I get, the more to the left I begin to lean and the more liberal I get in general. Isn't it supposed to be the other way - shouldn't I have been a Democrat until 30 as the saying goes?

And as much as I would like a competitive multiparty system with multiple relevant choices all of whom might have a legitimate shot, and as much as I agree with some of the things those in places like the Green Party might stand for, when it gets down to it, they are more likely to have one or two policies that are so far out on the fringe that I couldn't vote for them either.
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Old March 6th, 2012, 04:25 PM   #65
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Same here.

I don't understand why people have to justify which president to vote for by what they did for them. I just don't want them (government) in the way of accomplishing what I want in life. That's it.
The less the govenment does for you the better off you will be. The larger the govenment the more they get in the way of what you can accomplish to make your life better.
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Old March 6th, 2012, 04:31 PM   #66
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I just don't see how this is linked to Obama or any president. Every spending bill (by constitution) must start in the house and pass the house. Senators can attach spending but it has to go back to the house for passage.

Side note: Dems only controlled the house for two of the last 10 years.
Just like obama has done with obamacare, pushed it through without approval. Spend like there is no tomorrow. The numbers don't lie but obama does.
Bush spent alot also but not nearly as much as obama.
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Old March 6th, 2012, 04:47 PM   #67
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If the people all stood up like our ancestors did and demanded change from the people in charge and be willing to fight for it. They would be considered terrorists instead of americans fighting for what they believe in. How did we get to this point?
That is how the fight back. They will attempt to silence the political right by any means possible and by calling the opposition terrorists is a way to convince the independent voter that the conservatives are intolerant and filled with hate because they disagree with the political left.
Then we get to social issues and who is the group pushing for abortion and euthenasia, population control, global warming? These are all ways to control the people. If the democratic party continues on its path you will not recoginze this country as where we came from.
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Old March 6th, 2012, 05:43 PM   #68
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Well said Aber61. All of the posts.

By the way, the avatar is spot on too.
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Old March 6th, 2012, 05:59 PM   #69
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NONE of the Obama supports have seen what we are about to go through with Obamacare. I feel sourouned by Obama supporters and they can't figure why I can't stand the guy, and then have no idea how to support or defend Obama when I through real facts about his presidency and what is to come with Obamacare.

Yet, they will still vote and re-elect this non-American muslim socialist.
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Old March 6th, 2012, 06:03 PM   #70
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This thread makes my head spin.....
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Old March 6th, 2012, 06:44 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by WSU JK View Post
I would consider my probable vote for Obama as more of a vote against the Republican candidates than as a vote for the Democratic party.
Unfortunately me too. I can't believe these guys are the best options the Republican party could come up with. I would vote for McCain....
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Old March 6th, 2012, 07:14 PM   #72
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First let me mention that I did not vote for Obama in the last election, and am undecided who I will vote for in the coming election.

So letís look at a few things that have happened in the past 4 yearsÖ

Economy: We could argue until the end of time and not agree on the causes of the most recent recession, and whether the action of the Obama administration have helped or hindered the recovery. But is obvious to me is that we were headed into the recession well before Obama took office, and the recently the recovery has gained traction and the economy is getting stronger. If you prescribe to the belief that the President in office at the time when something happens with the economy deserves the credit or blame for what happens you have to score this a plus for Obama.

Wars: When Obama took office we were involved in 2 wars. He pulled us out of one, is in the process of pulling us out of the second. We have been involved in a couple if situations but none have resulted in us being dragged into another war.

Health care: Under the old plan costs are skyrocketing, We pay more than any other modern nation, cover a lower percentage of our citizens that any modern nation, and are not as healthy as other nations. We may have the best health care, but it does little for you if you canít afford it. Obama says his plan will allow you to get it for less money. If you are one of the people who canít afford it, but will be able to if the plan works, why would you vote for him?

Taxes: Obama says he wants to raise taxes on the wealthy and maintain or lower them for everyone else. Not a bad sounding plan if youíre not wealthy, as most arenít.

Budget: Fair or not the came off looking like they just wanted to stand in the way of any agreement and Obama as the one that wanted to move forward, and who was willing to do what he had to do at least keep the government running.
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Old March 6th, 2012, 07:16 PM   #73
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That is how the fight back. They will attempt to silence the political right by any means possible and by calling the opposition terrorists is a way to convince the independent voter that the conservatives are intolerant and filled with hate because they disagree with the political left.
Then we get to social issues and who is the group pushing for abortion and euthenasia, population control, global warming? These are all ways to control the people. If the democratic party continues on its path you will not recoginze this country as where we came from.
Forcing your religious and moral views on others is another way to control people.
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Old March 6th, 2012, 07:24 PM   #74
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First let me mention that I did not vote for Obama in the last election, and am undecided who I will vote for in the coming election.

So letís look at a few things that have happened in the past 4 yearsÖ

Economy: We could argue until the end of time and not agree on the causes of the most recent recession, and whether the action of the Obama administration have helped or hindered the recovery. But is obvious to me is that we were headed into the recession well before Obama took office, and the recently the recovery has gained traction and the economy is getting stronger. If you prescribe to the belief that the President in office at the time when something happens with the economy deserves the credit or blame for what happens you have to score this a plus for Obama.

Wars: When Obama took office we were involved in 2 wars. He pulled us out of one, is in the process of pulling us out of the second. We have been involved in a couple if situations but none have resulted in us being dragged into another war.

Health care: Under the old plan costs are skyrocketing, We pay more than any other modern nation, cover a lower percentage of our citizens that any modern nation, and are not as healthy as other nations. We may have the best health care, but it does little for you if you canít afford it. Obama says his plan will allow you to get it for less money. If you are one of the people who canít afford it, but will be able to if the plan works, why would you vote for him?

Taxes: Obama says he wants to raise taxes on the wealthy and maintain or lower them for everyone else. Not a bad sounding plan if youíre not wealthy, as most arenít.

Budget: Fair or not the came off looking like they just wanted to stand in the way of any agreement and Obama as the one that wanted to move forward, and who was willing to do what he had to do at least keep the government running.

X a billion. Well said Bruce.
I did not vote for Obama but will this year.
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Old March 6th, 2012, 08:17 PM   #75
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It's because of me. I am at a stage in my life where I am not needing to go into further debt, my kids are moved out and we are saving more than in the past. I am more liquid than in the past.

My 401K has not grown like I would have hoped.
Yep, that is us too.
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Old March 6th, 2012, 10:25 PM   #76
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Well said Aber61. All of the posts.

By the way, the avatar is spot on too.
Thanks Toast

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NONE of the Obama supports have seen what we are about to go through with Obamacare. I feel sourouned by Obama supporters and they can't figure why I can't stand the guy, and then have no idea how to support or defend Obama when I through real facts about his presidency and what is to come with Obamacare.

Yet, they will still vote and re-elect this non-American muslim socialist.
With Obamacare everybody will get free medical on the backs of the working class. The medical system will be flooded with millions of people looking to get treatment. Such a strain on that system, without adding more staff will create long wait times to see a doctor if you can find one that will be taking on new patients.
Like I said another 4 years of Obama and you will not know this country as it is but more like the new europe or russia.
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Old March 6th, 2012, 10:50 PM   #77
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With Obamacare everybody will get free medical on the backs of the working class. The medical system will be flooded with millions of people looking to get treatment. Such a strain on that system, without adding more staff will create long wait times to see a doctor if you can find one that will be taking on new patients.
Like I said another 4 years of Obama and you will not know this country as it is but more like the new europe or russia.
Right. Our medical system isn't big enough for everyone to get treatment. If everyone could afford treatment our system would be overwhelmed. The only fair answer is to ration health care based on ability to pay. If you're poor, oh well, it sucks to be you.
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Old March 6th, 2012, 11:02 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
First let me mention that I did not vote for Obama in the last election, and am undecided who I will vote for in the coming election.

So letís look at a few things that have happened in the past 4 yearsÖ

Economy: We could argue until the end of time and not agree on the causes of the most recent recession, and whether the action of the Obama administration have helped or hindered the recovery. But is obvious to me is that we were headed into the recession well before Obama took office, and the recently the recovery has gained traction and the economy is getting stronger. If you prescribe to the belief that the President in office at the time when something happens with the economy deserves the credit or blame for what happens you have to score this a plus for Obama.

We could argue about the economy but the numbers don't lie.Unemployment is at or above 9% and has gone up since Obama got into office. The debt he has put on this country will not be paid off for who knows how long(end of time)

Wars: When Obama took office we were involved in 2 wars. He pulled us out of one, is in the process of pulling us out of the second. We have been involved in a couple if situations but none have resulted in us being dragged into another war.

The war Obama pulled us out of was the same timeline Bush had in mind to getout of Iraq and has since increased the amount of troops in Afganistan with no results in sight.

Health care: Under the old plan costs are skyrocketing, We pay more than any other modern nation, cover a lower percentage of our citizens that any modern nation, and are not as healthy as other nations. We may have the best health care, but it does little for you if you canít afford it. Obama says his plan will allow you to get it for less money. If you are one of the people who canít afford it, but will be able to if the plan works, why would you vote for him?

With Obamacare it will bankrupt this nation and has already increased in cost and his plan is not even in effect.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012...-aid-rises-by/


Taxes: Obama says he wants to raise taxes on the wealthy and maintain or lower them for everyone else. Not a bad sounding plan if youíre not wealthy, as most arenít.

Taxes will go up for everybody, it will affect the poor and middleclass the most. He may not call it a tax but the cost of living will go up and we will all pay more.

Budget: Fair or not the came off looking like they just wanted to stand in the way of any agreement and Obama as the one that wanted to move forward, and who was willing to do what he had to do at least keep the government running.
Budget... He has not passed a budget for this nation in over a thousand days. At least when BUsh was in office he passed budgets and not two and three month budgets. Most house holds need to go by a budget to make sure they don't over extend thenselves. The country is so far in debt the China owns our ass and if they want to collect what do we give them? American soil, wait I think they already own plenty. For Obama and Democrats to use the excuse that they had to do what was needed to keep the country running is a sign of poor leadership qualities. Jimmy Carter was the worst president but history will show Obama to be the worst

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Forcing your religious and moral views on others is another way to control people.
Nobody is forcing religious or moral views on anybody, it is freedom of speech. I have the right to tell you about Jesus Christ and how he can change your life for the better and you have the free will to ignore what I say. See nobody forced anything on you.
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Old March 6th, 2012, 11:11 PM   #79
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Right. Our medical system isn't big enough for everyone to get treatment. If everyone could afford treatment our system would be overwhelmed. The only fair answer is to ration health care based on ability to pay. If you're poor, oh well, it sucks to be you.
So your answer is to force everybody to pay into a system to provide healthcare to the people who do not want to work and contribute into a system of healthcare.
The healthcare system is crazy and expensive but to allow the government to run it is even worse. We all know what happens when the government gets involved in business, look at the postal system and the public schools and medicade.
There has to be a better way and affordable for everybody but obamacare is FORCED on everybody except for the waviers he gave out to his big supporters. If Obama care is good enough for the American people then why is it not good enough for politicians and the ones lucky enough to recieve waviers?
Something is not right with obamacare.
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Old March 6th, 2012, 11:31 PM   #80
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Forcing your religious and moral views on others is another way to control people.
I understand this p.o.v. but cant quite agree. The religious and moral views are not forced on anyone. Regardless of your spiritual denomination, there is a common understanding of whats right and wrong. We all have to make conscious choices when it involves situations that address these differences. This doesn't necessarily mean its religion that is the root of this, but more so the common understanding that we have. If there is a reference to the issues that are the hot points for a debate, they are there because we are conditioned to inquire about them, because that was the control that was handed over to us, as a society, by the elite.

I am a salesman by career, (yup, bring it, and the truth...we all are) and one of the oldest strategies for closing a sale is giving control to someone you hope to sell something to. By doing this, you are actually maintaining control, simply by the motion of giving it away. Anything that people develop a dependence on, is quicker taken away than originally given. Once it is taken away, then there is demand created regardless of where it comes from, thus enters control.

We need to progress in a way that what we need is actually provided by ourselves, for ourselves. A self sustaining system becomes dependent on itself, thus it's strength is in itself and growth becomes something of a sure thing.

We are set up to be dependent, not on ourselves but, the ones that have handed over control on the issues that they want us to care about and invest time energy and money into. Our eyes have been diverted away from the underlining that has been deteriorated away. This has been fueled by both sides. So to say that this originated from one side of the isle or the other, well that is the obtuse thinking that the elite are banking on us being blinded by. It fuels our anger and frustration and keeps the blinders up so we don't see what is actually happening.

This has been a great thread. It was mentioned that this has had great info. But it started with the question, did the current president do something that compels one to vote for him again? I don't think that the current administration can take credit for anything positive that has happened. As I mentioned before, I think these events were going to happen, and whoever was in office would have that to their credit.

OK. To bed I go. Good night and GOD Bless.
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