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Old March 15th, 2012, 08:53 PM   #361
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Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
Matthew 28:18-20



Red - I try to do this. This was the call to his Disciples that were present and is a call to any of those that have had a changed heart by God.

Orange - Jesus had the authority to do so because he had, at that time, been reunited with the trinity.


I know it's probably not good enough because it doesn't say "L4CX" can talk for all Christians. I share the doctrine that Jesus preached. The other thread is a great example of that.

So, is that good enough for you?

No? Ok :

2 Corinthians 5:16-20. A book written by Paul. A founder of the church and called directly by God to minister the gospel.




I am to make an appeal to this world (Gl4x4 included) the act of God Reconciling himself to us through Christ. I do this by helping people understand what his word says through Apoligetics. Using Context, culture, and a complete understanding of the text to point to Christ and his Reconciling the world.

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Aaanndd that ball is outta here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old March 15th, 2012, 09:26 PM   #362
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thanks dad, please pass the pork roast, taters and three rolls, this boy's bout ready to put on a "how-to" eating clinic
and don't forget the apple pie.
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Old March 15th, 2012, 09:33 PM   #363
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Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
Matthew 28:18-20



Red - I try to do this. This was the call to his Disciples that were present and is a call to any of those that have had a changed heart by God.

Orange - Jesus had the authority to do so because he had, at that time, been reunited with the trinity.


I know it's probably not good enough because it doesn't say "L4CX" can talk for all Christians. I share the doctrine that Jesus preached. The other thread is a great example of that.

So, is that good enough for you?

No? Ok :

2 Corinthians 5:16-20. A book written by Paul. A founder of the church and called directly by God to minister the gospel.




I am to make an appeal to this world (Gl4x4 included) the act of God Reconciling himself to us through Christ. I do this by helping people understand what his word says through Apoligetics. Using Context, culture, and a complete understanding of the text to point to Christ and his Reconciling the world.

Want more?
not proof at all...because what I read there is God gives you the duty to share the message...not to speak on behalf of others....as far as you helping people understand, you are just giving and interpretation of what you understand the passages mean to you...

so yes I would still like some scripture to back your claim as to being able to speak on behalf of other Christians...I consider myself a Christian and I will tell you my beliefs and interpretations are worlds apart from yours..
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Old March 15th, 2012, 09:39 PM   #364
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Religion should not be a part of politics. Unfortuanatly, some "Christians" feel that it is better to have a man in office who goes to church EVERY Sunday than a man in office that can to his job. This has made running for office (at least the Republican side) difficult even if you have the correct skill set. Result: People in office who are good at telling people what they want to hear but not very good at anything else.
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Old March 15th, 2012, 09:53 PM   #365
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not proof at all...because what I read there is God gives you the duty to share the message...not to speak on behalf of others....as far as you helping people understand, you are just giving and interpretation of what you understand the passages mean to you...

so yes I would still like some scripture to back your claim as to being able to speak on behalf of other Christians...I consider myself a Christian and I will tell you my beliefs and interpretations are worlds apart from yours..
big shocker....................
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Old March 15th, 2012, 10:23 PM   #366
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Exactly. Life is nothing but a continuous string of random events. To think that things happen for a reason or due to some master plan is ridiculous. What happened to Earth isn't statistically rare. Life exists out there elsewhere in the universe. What's funny is that you Christians believe God just showed up out of nowhere....explain that one.
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Old March 15th, 2012, 10:55 PM   #367
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not proof at all...because what I read there is God gives you the duty to share the message...not to speak on behalf of others....as far as you helping people understand, you are just giving and interpretation of what you understand the passages mean to you...

so yes I would still like some scripture to back your claim as to being able to speak on behalf of other Christians...I consider myself a Christian and I will tell you my beliefs and interpretations are worlds apart from yours..
Christ's message is what Christians believe. Right? Christ- ianity? The Following of Christ. The living under the commands of Christ. If I am speaking of the gospel and using the words of Christ and his disciples am I not merely sharing his message? A qualification that you just agreed with. I can say "Christians Believe this" if I use what Christ taught. If you don't believe in what Christ taught, You're not a Christian by pure definition.

Flip the coin around: What are your beliefs (that differ from mine) and back them up with Contextual Scripture.


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Religion should not be a part of politics. Unfortuanatly, some "Christians" feel that it is better to have a man in office who goes to church EVERY Sunday than a man in office that can to his job. This has made running for office (at least the Republican side) difficult even if you have the correct skill set. Result: People in office who are good at telling people what they want to hear but not very good at anything else.
I'd rather have a man who does his job and knows his humble standing with God. I could care less the frequency of him going to a building.

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Exactly. Life is nothing but a continuous string of random events. To think that things happen for a reason or due to some master plan is ridiculous. What happened to Earth isn't statistically rare. Life exists out there elsewhere in the universe. What's funny is that you Christians believe God just showed up out of nowhere....explain that one.
Only if you <insert blank>iests explain where matter came from?
Two options for the beginning of things. Both sides.
1> Something is Eternal
2> It just appeared out of nothing, absolutely nothing. (because if it was a result of even the tiniest "something" you'd have to ask where that something came from)

Only difference is I choose a Loving and graceful Creator who has showed countless amounts of mercy to my Sinful self.
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Old March 15th, 2012, 11:53 PM   #368
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I'd rather have a man who does his job and knows his humble standing with God. I could care less the frequency of him going to a building.

But your qualifier is that he believes in (your) God. Why would his religious position dictate your vote? We need qualified leaders who are effective, not talking heads telling you what you want to hear to get elected.
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Old March 16th, 2012, 12:25 AM   #369
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Christ's message is what Christians believe. Right? Christ- ianity? The Following of Christ. The living under the commands of Christ. If I am speaking of the gospel and using the words of Christ and his disciples am I not merely sharing his message? A qualification that you just agreed with. I can say "Christians Believe this" if I use what Christ taught. If you don't believe in what Christ taught, You're not a Christian by pure definition.
here is the thing...his message is open to interpretation, just like many other things we as Americans hold sacred. The Constitution for example, moreover the 2nd amendment...and as the bible is left open for interpretation; there will differences in beliefs and what is meant by God's Words. Look at belief systems. The Bible didn't change; people's perceptions of it did.

Examples, Some people interpret passages of the Bible literally as the Word of God, others interpret passages of the Bible as a historical document, some as midrash and still others as folklore. How do people that take the Bible as the literal Word of God apply to todayís life and society? The answer is you canít, you have to draw on similarities and apply them to todayís life and struggles, hence interpretation.
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Old March 16th, 2012, 12:34 AM   #370
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But your qualifier is that he believes in (your) God. Why would his religious position dictate your vote? We need qualified leaders who are effective, not talking heads telling you what you want to hear to get elected.
As far as religion and politics go I am not a big fan of and have a hard time trusting anybody who is overly religious being anywhere near office.

I almost entered into a business partnership with a guy who was very religious. Everyday i am thankful that i chose against it. One day he out of no where he said that god came to him in a dream and told him he was taking advantage of those less fortunate and that he needed to stop and find work where he can help others. Well he owned rental properties (we were looking to go in on an apartment complex together) so he gave the properties away to the people who were renting them and went to help others. Now do not get me wrong that was a very kind thing he did but to do it all because you think somebody came to you in a dream. really?

He now is broke as shit and lost his house, all because of a dream and god.

I get that is bad to let my one experience sway my judgement as far as very overly religious people go but that freaked me the hell out and I am sure there are others who have done the same thing as he did. It is tough to trust a person who may go and do something irrational because they had a revelation
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Old March 16th, 2012, 07:00 AM   #371
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As far as religion and politics go I am not a big fan of and have a hard time trusting anybody who is overly religious being anywhere near office.

I almost entered into a business partnership with a guy who was very religious. Everyday i am thankful that i chose against it. One day he out of no where he said that god came to him in a dream and told him he was taking advantage of those less fortunate and that he needed to stop and find work where he can help others. Well he owned rental properties (we were looking to go in on an apartment complex together) so he gave the properties away to the people who were renting them and went to help others. Now do not get me wrong that was a very kind thing he did but to do it all because you think somebody came to you in a dream. really?

He now is broke as shit and lost his house, all because of a dream and god.

I get that is bad to let my one experience sway my judgement as far as very overly religious people go but that freaked me the hell out and I am sure there are others who have done the same thing as he did. It is tough to trust a person who may go and do something irrational because they had a revelation
.
Christian response #1: This is all part of God's plan for this individual and he is currently being put through a "test". If God thinks he's worthy, God will reward him beyond his wildest dream.

Christian response #2: God gave us all free will and he has nothing to do with this person's financial situation. The Devil must have appeared in this man's dream and had taken the form of God. The person should have known that Satan is evil and tricky and not financially ruined himself.
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Old March 16th, 2012, 07:42 AM   #372
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I didn't say what I said to defend you. Rather, to point out to others that getting pissy and rude is not right. On a personal note, I find you to be more arguementative than I care for. But, I shrug it off. Like Kickstand, I am a Christian but I'm not a believer in carrying the arguement to those that want to argue. Why? Because I am a bigger believer in the Golden Rule. I absolutely hate it when the Jehovah's Witness people walk up my driveway and I have to be rude to get rid of them. So, if I don't like them being pushy to me, why would I be pushy to someone else? I also believe that although the Bible seems very accurate, I am enough of a realist to realize that many of the stories written were historically "close" but we all know that the science and understanding thousands of years ago was a best guess, at best. So, those that want to argue can easily find holes to poke at. And, in many cases, they can be right. So why box yourself into a corner defending a story that is sketchy just because it is in the Bible? The biggest difference is whether a person is willing to have "FAITH".

Is there a God exactly the way the Bible describes? I don't know. But I have given enough thought to our world to realize that it is way too perfect to be pure evolution. I believe in a higher being. I was raised as a Christian and it makes good sense to me. But I think that argueing over semantics is silly and I take offense to both Christians and non Christians for making a circus out of it.

That's about it for my once every 5 years comment on religion. I'm more likely to discuss morality and living by the Golden Rule.
Quoted for Excellence.

I really like what you did here. totally agree.

I've found that people usually don't have a problem with God, they have a problem with someones forced interpretation.

Most who have had a bad experience related to religion have not had a problem with God, they have had a problem with an individual "messenger".
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Old March 16th, 2012, 08:02 AM   #373
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Exactly. Life is nothing but a continuous string of random events. To think that things happen for a reason or due to some master plan is ridiculous. What happened to Earth isn't statistically rare. Life exists out there elsewhere in the universe. What's funny is that you Christians believe God just showed up out of nowhere....explain that one.
Proof?

Not statistically rare? Please give the statistics of how many planets, how many universes and how many solar systems there are and then cite the percentage that have life, and furthermore, intelligent life? My guess is that you will then find the earth to be pretty rare.
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Old March 16th, 2012, 08:13 AM   #374
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Quoted for Excellence.

I really like what you did here. totally agree.

I've found that people usually don't have a problem with God, they have a problem with someones forced interpretation.

Most who have had a bad experience related to religion have not had a problem with God, they have had a problem with an individual "messenger".
True. Actually a huge issue with me. A littel back history. I was raised Methodist and Baptist. My wife is Catholic. When my kids were young, I agreed to attend a Catholic church and have them go to catychism, so we started to go weekly to the Saturday evening mass. After a few weeks, at the coffee hour afterwards, I was approached by a group of men, I would guess 6 or 7 and they asked me if I was interested in joining the men's club. Discussion insued. They asked where I was from and I told them locally all my life. Well then, where did you go to church? I told them. You mean you're not CATHOLIC? No, not by upbringing but I believe in God, Jesus, communion, etc. You weren't baptised in a Catholic church but yet you take communion here? Correct. THE ASSHOLES ALL TURNED AND WALKED AWAY FROM ME. HYPOCRITES IN MY MIND! By their reaction, they told me that I wasn't good enough for their men's club. I never went back to that church except for specific things like weddings.

So, actually to Hancho's point, the bible is there to be interpreted. To me, if a person believes in the above, where, when, how they were saved, baptized, etc, is all a moot point. To me, it's if you believe in the principal.

All of the rituals, stand up, sit down, kneel, sing are all versions of what a particular denomination has deemed "proper". This is my frustration with any religion today. But, back to my point, when I ponder life, earth, and how everything fits together, I truely believe that it didn't just evolve. Therefore, as others have said, I have "FAITH".
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Old March 16th, 2012, 08:19 AM   #375
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Ok, I know there are a few of you out there on this site that voted for him and probably will do so again in November.

My question is why?

Seriously, not trying to start a giant piss fest even though that will come, but I would really like to know why you feel he should be re-elected.

Do you think he has done good for this country? What good do you think he has done for us? Do you think he is the alternative to a Republican so that's where your vote will go?

I ask because it seems like every day I see people with the Obama 2012 stickers on their cars. I just don't get it. It seems as though things are just as bad, maybe worse, for the people that are the supposed supporters of the Democrats ideology.
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Matthew 28:18-20



Red - I try to do this. This was the call to his Disciples that were present and is a call to any of those that have had a changed heart by God.

Orange - Jesus had the authority to do so because he had, at that time, been reunited with the trinity.


I know it's probably not good enough because it doesn't say "L4CX" can talk for all Christians. I share the doctrine that Jesus preached. The other thread is a great example of that.

So, is that good enough for you?

No? Ok :

2 Corinthians 5:16-20. A book written by Paul. A founder of the church and called directly by God to minister the gospel.




I am to make an appeal to this world (Gl4x4 included) the act of God Reconciling himself to us through Christ. I do this by helping people understand what his word says through Apoligetics. Using Context, culture, and a complete understanding of the text to point to Christ and his Reconciling the world.

Want more?
Well this thread sure has taken a left turn...

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Old March 16th, 2012, 08:26 AM   #376
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Proof?

Not statistically rare? Please give the statistics of how many planets, how many universes and how many solar systems there are and then cite the percentage that have life, and furthermore, intelligent life? My guess is that you will then find the earth to be pretty rare.
I think GM might have been exaggerating a bit...

But there is so much more to what is the expanse of the known, or assumed, universe that we can't even see or know what is out there to even begin to assume one way or another as to whether we are unique or not.

For all we know we could just be sitting in the middle of a small empty spot while everything just beyond our visual range is a "thriving metropolis" of other life forms.

To me faith or belief that there is other life out there is no different than faith or belief in us being uniquely created by God.
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Old March 16th, 2012, 08:28 AM   #377
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Well this thread sure has taken a left turn...

Hasn't it though......

But in looking at the current topic and where it came from, that is an indicator as to what is one of the important drivers for who we will vote for.

If there were a candidate that said something like, "I will lower taxes, I will lower unemployment, I will come up with a better health care system, and Oh yea......lower the cost of all four wheel drive components for GL4X4 by 50%", I would have to look long and hard at that candidate.
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Old March 16th, 2012, 08:35 AM   #378
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not proof at all...because what I read there is God gives you the duty to share the message...not to speak on behalf of others....as far as you helping people understand, you are just giving and interpretation of what you understand the passages mean to you...

so yes I would still like some scripture to back your claim as to being able to speak on behalf of other Christians...I consider myself a Christian and I will tell you my beliefs and interpretations are worlds apart from yours..


If you do not beleive in the Jesus of the bible then you are looking to a different Jesus which is not the same, so your interpretation is the different one.
My interpetation lines up with Scott's.
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Old March 16th, 2012, 08:42 AM   #379
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Well this thread sure has taken a left turn...

Yeah, I'm still not sure what this all has to do with Obama supporters.
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Old March 16th, 2012, 08:59 AM   #380
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I think GM might have been exaggerating a bit...

But there is so much more to what is the expanse of the known, or assumed, universe that we can't even see or know what is out there to even begin to assume one way or another as to whether we are unique or not.

For all we know we could just be sitting in the middle of a small empty spot while everything just beyond our visual range is a "thriving metropolis" of other life forms.

To me faith or belief that there is other life out there is no different than faith or belief in us being uniquely created by God.
Look, when someone says "statistically", then they need to be able to back it up. Don't call my beliefs rediculous when you have nothing more than your own opinion to counter it. I have not called anyone names or called their beliefs stupid or rediculous. It amazes me when the non believers say things like "you have no proof" and "cite me the proof" as a strong anti arguement and then want to use the word "statistacally" with no proof either.

Is there life outside this universe? I wouldn't doubt it, but I challenges someone to prove it with something more than an article written by some mad scientist.
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