Go Back   Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat
GL4x4 Live! GL4x4 Casino

Politics, Government, or Religion Chat Bring your flamesuit!







Search
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 9th, 2012, 11:43 AM   #241
SHARPMACHINE
F-U-CANCER!!!
 
SHARPMACHINE's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-29-06
Location: MONTAGUE MI (BY THE SAND BOX)
Posts: 4,389
iTrader: (24)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuggets View Post
I can't figure out why this is not a major campainging point with the Republican crop. If I were running for office, my economic plan would be to encourage Ameican industry and develope methods to control trade inequalities, ex.: mirroring trade restrictions other countries impose on us. Should a country limit their imports from us or imposes huge tarrifs on our goods, we shall do the same to them. I would also reduce if not eliminate guberment bailouts. Business failure is essential to cull the weak from the economic stream and allow the stronger to produce a better product. Since our nanny state has stepped in to save those that made poor business decisions, we now have a sub-standard business culture that really is no longer a world class provider of goods.

Just my thoughts. I figure I couldn't be any worse at running our country than the current crop of morons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kickstand View Post
I agree on principal to what you'd like to see.

It actually would be good for worldwide development in my eyes, not just our own.

It would drive the cost of all goods down to equalize trading tarrifs and taxes, but there are things like NAFTA (thank another DEM) that make those things a bit more difficult to accomplish.
Ah yes, my beloved NAFTA. I can not believe it has not been changed, other than I am sure politicians are still getting pay-offs to keep it in place.
__________________
Hay, look at me... I have a signature.....



RIP FULLSIZE4LIFE
SHARPMACHINE is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 9th, 2012, 03:36 PM   #242
brewmenn
Grumpy old man.
 
brewmenn's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Inkster, MI
Posts: 10,314
iTrader: (9)
I edited my post to remove the word “wealthy”. I should know better than to use that word. When I’ve used it before someone from the right, and yes, always the right, tries to get me to put a number on what is meant by “wealthy”, and then use that to try to paint me into a corner with some scenario where someone did this or that to make that money and now I want them to pay more taxes. I refuse to go there.
I agree that if someone doesn’t want to work they should get nothing. We shouldn’t have programs that do that.
I don’t know you or if you’re “fat and lazy”. I was referring to American society in general. But I really should have said “selfish”. Everyone seems so concerned with what’s best for their own personal situation, and not with what is best for our society, not understanding that if society crumbles we’ll all suffer.
brewmenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 9th, 2012, 04:00 PM   #243
aber61
Senior Member
 
aber61's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-22-08
Location: Commerce Twp. Michigan
Posts: 5,986
iTrader: (3)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mschaffer66 View Post
I'd really like to see the wealthy people of this country hit the cash out button and go on strike just to see how quickly the system crumbles when the goose up and says, "Fuck you I'm taking my golden eggs and going home."

I'm so fucking sick and tired of everyone in this god damn country feeling like they should be able to make decisions on how others should live their lives or what other should or shouldn't have when half of them can't live their own piss poor lives worth a fukc . Jesus fucking Christ, where is it my place, your place, Obama's place, or anyone's place to decide whether or not the "evil rich man" should give up more of his income to support the "do nothing dirt asses" of our society?
Really?
I'm sure you must know how offensive that is not only to me but others here.
I usually ignore those comments but twice in the same post.
You're a pretty smart guy I'm sure you could come up with more discriptive phrases like Allah or Mohammad
aber61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 9th, 2012, 08:59 PM   #244
3-foot
Senior Member
 
3-foot's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-21-06
Location: Springfield Township, Mi
Posts: 1,108
iTrader: (1)
Quote:
Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post

As I’ve said numerous times in these discussions, income taxes right now are near historic lows. During the 1940’s, ‘50’s and ‘60’s taxes were much higher, with the top rates over 90%.
This is an overly simplified argument that ignores reality. Sure INCOME tax rates on the highest brackets are much lower than the past, but overall tax burden on the wealthiest of Americans is not at an all time low. Income tax is only one portion of taxation and most of the wealthiest Americans make their money not through salaries (income) but by other means that are taxed in other ways and at different rates. Some are taxed more than once.

It's a great leftist talking point, used frequently to invoke class warfare but it isn't based in reality.

Higher taxes aren't a solution, the problem is much too large.
3-foot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 9th, 2012, 10:52 PM   #245
artistic_gore
I own @ halo
 
artistic_gore's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-05-06
Location: Granite Falls, WA
Posts: 1,128
iTrader: (2)
Send a message via AIM to artistic_gore
Quote:
Originally Posted by aber61 View Post
Really?
I'm sure you must know how offensive that is not only to me but others here.
I usually ignore those comments but twice in the same post.
You're a pretty smart guy I'm sure you could come up with more discriptive phrases like Allah or Mohammad
Really? Who cares what you are offended by? It is your choice to be offended. Ignore it. People aren't going to change their language just because a certain group is offended by it. I'm offended that people get offended by language, WORDS!
artistic_gore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10th, 2012, 03:20 PM   #246
aber61
Senior Member
 
aber61's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-22-08
Location: Commerce Twp. Michigan
Posts: 5,986
iTrader: (3)
Quote:
Originally Posted by artistic_gore View Post
Really? Who cares what you are offended by? It is your choice to be offended. Ignore it. People aren't going to change their language just because a certain group is offended by it. I'm offended that people get offended by language, WORDS!
There is a difference by getting offended by words and getting offended because of somebody using God's name in vain. It does offend people, it offends me and other Christians.
You may not believe in Jesus and would not understand what it means by using those terms. I take it to heart. Just as you would get offended if somebody said something terrible about your kids, or directly at you maybe about your parenting skills, your wife, your mother or father.
Not saying your a parent, and you love your family. You would not say anything to offend your family would you?
aber61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10th, 2012, 03:57 PM   #247
tctrojan17
Sexy and I know it.
 
tctrojan17's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05-21-10
Location: traverse city
Posts: 888
iTrader: (5)
Quote:
Originally Posted by aber61 View Post
There is a difference by getting offended by words and getting offended because of somebody using God's name in vain.
God's name used in vain is still just a bunch of words. For someone who opposes government interference in his life you sure do not mind creating religious interference into others lives.

Jesus clearly was/is the best politician ever.
tctrojan17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 11th, 2012, 11:36 PM   #248
brewmenn
Grumpy old man.
 
brewmenn's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Inkster, MI
Posts: 10,314
iTrader: (9)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3-foot View Post
This is an overly simplified argument that ignores reality. Sure INCOME tax rates on the highest brackets are much lower than the past, but overall tax burden on the wealthiest of Americans is not at an all time low. Income tax is only one portion of taxation and most of the wealthiest Americans make their money not through salaries (income) but by other means that are taxed in other ways and at different rates. Some are taxed more than once.

It's a great leftist talking point, used frequently to invoke class warfare but it isn't based in reality.

Higher taxes aren't a solution, the problem is much too large.
Right, they also pay capital gains taxes, which are also historically low.

Can you give any examples of what tax they pay that is higher now?
brewmenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 12th, 2012, 07:18 AM   #249
3-foot
Senior Member
 
3-foot's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-21-06
Location: Springfield Township, Mi
Posts: 1,108
iTrader: (1)
Quote:
Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
Right, they also pay capital gains taxes, which are also historically low.

Can you give any examples of what tax they pay that is higher now?
Capital gains Tax is much more complicated than just saying, it's 15% which is historically low and much lower than the income tax. That can be true sometimes, other times it is higher than the standard income tax.

http://www.tax.com/taxcom/taxblog.ns...F?OpenDocument

How about the general income tax for a good example? The tax rate 90% vs 35% is on Adjusted Gross Income (AGI). What is written off today at 39% vs. what was written off in the 1950's at 90% ? What's the amount of tax paid as a % of the gross income? It isn't the same, that's my point.

No need to find the details. My point is that you are not comparing apples to apples by saying that it was 90% and now it's 39%, because the laws have changed so much since the 1950's with regard to tax write-off's that you cannot compare the two.

Your point may still be valid but directly comparing 90% to 35% isn't. It's a far more complicated math problem than that.
3-foot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 12th, 2012, 08:37 AM   #250
toast
i break stuff
 
toast's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02-14-07
Location: West Michigan
Posts: 480
iTrader: (3)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tctrojan17 View Post
God's name used in vain is still just a bunch of words. For someone who opposes government interference in his life you sure do not mind creating religious interference into others lives.

Jesus clearly was/is the best politician ever.
So if someone spouted off at you in a manner that used words that were offensive to you, you would just shrug it off and say, "well those are just words, they mean nothing and do not offend me at all...". I doubt that as I am sure you would take some offense. That is what ABER61 is saying, that we take personal offense to those words and that others could probably come up with other choices that could convey the same sentiment and sound well thought out rather that just spouting off.

Make no preconceived notion,I am guilty of this too, but am trying to make a change. Taking my Gods name in vain is also something that I occasionally do also, when I am pissed off and loose control of my emotions. Like I said I am not perfect, never will be, but I am trying to change the way I speak.

I also understand your point of view, but disagree. They are more than words to those who hear them.
toast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 12th, 2012, 08:41 AM   #251
kickstand
sHaMoNe!
 
kickstand's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-20-06
Location: fenton
Posts: 30,179
iTrader: (46)
Quote:
Originally Posted by aber61 View Post
Really?
I'm sure you must know how offensive that is not only to me but others here.
I usually ignore those comments but twice in the same post.
You're a pretty smart guy I'm sure you could come up with more discriptive phrases like Allah or Mohammad
so it's not ok to offend you by using jesus christ' name in vane, but it's ok to do so using mohammad or allah?

You're not a christian, you're a hypocrit living in a glass house.
kickstand is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 12th, 2012, 10:04 AM   #252
Rebel2345
NOT GL4x4SucksVideo guy.
 
Rebel2345's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02-01-07
Location: MI
Posts: 3,067
iTrader: (6)
Quote:
Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
Right, they also pay capital gains taxes, which are also historically low.

Can you give any examples of what tax they pay that is higher now?
Rebel2345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 12th, 2012, 10:56 AM   #253
toast
i break stuff
 
toast's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02-14-07
Location: West Michigan
Posts: 480
iTrader: (3)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kickstand View Post
so it's not ok to offend you by using jesus christ' name in vane, but it's ok to do so using mohammad or allah?

You're not a christian, you're a hypocrit living in a glass house.
C'mon, Seriously, give it a rest. I can't speak for anyone but myself, but i think he was being sarcastic. When was the last time you heard a guy that like wheeling, spout off about something saying "mohammad f'ing allah!!" (that's weird anyways, and taken out of context sounds bad, really bad) or "mohammad damnit!" or "allah damnit!" ....

I mean come on. It just rubs the wrong way to someone who believes in Jesus Christ here's that. I am not here to cast stones, but simply defend my beliefs. And we have all made hypocritical statements and actions. Again, none of us are perfect.

Lets be clear, this thread started by a simple question...to which there has been no real good answer, and some worse than others. It has gone form religion to budget to taxes to work ethic, back to taxes then to a picture of a cat, that quickly got turned on the owner, then back to taxes to income to class discrimination to religion to all the while blaming each other for the nations problems. SO we have effectively and accurately performed a re-enactment of a session of congress with similar results. Why should we have gotten anything done, right? The only difference is we got paid what we should have for these results....nothing.

One definition of insanity is "Doing the same thing over and over and over again, but expecting different results each time"

We have agreed that we need change. Guess what, we are insane if we think the same administration is going to do anything different.

We want change?....YUP!......So we need to get the collective off of its ass and change it ourselves.
toast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 12th, 2012, 10:59 AM   #254
ckupq
Kitten I'm gonna eat you!
 
ckupq's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-07-05
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA 52402
Posts: 3,333
iTrader: (6)
Quote:
Originally Posted by toast View Post
C'mon, Seriously, give it a rest. I can't speak for anyone but myself, but i think he was being sarcastic. When was the last time you heard a guy that like wheeling, spout off about something saying "mohammad f'ing allah!!" (that's weird anyways, and taken out of context sounds bad, really bad) or "mohammad damnit!" or "allah damnit!" ....
That's the problem, he's not being sarcastic. He's actually meaning it. He's no better than a muslim, yet he holds himself higher.
ckupq is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 12th, 2012, 11:14 AM   #255
toast
i break stuff
 
toast's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02-14-07
Location: West Michigan
Posts: 480
iTrader: (3)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckupq View Post
That's the problem, he's not being sarcastic. He's actually meaning it. He's no better than a muslim, yet he holds himself higher.
OK. Are you muslim? If not, have you taken offense to that as a personal attack on a muslim? If not, then do you find his, all be it hypothetical suggestion, seriously genuine in origin? If so, you must have hurt feelings or know someone that does and want to say something about it, like you just did......juuust like he did when he took personal offense to some one taking Gods name in vain......


So I guess we are all set here....with this.....Lets get back to the riveting..(that was sarcastic).. world of politics.... shall we?

BTW, I may be mistaken, but supporters of the muslim faith, all be it a false faith to a false god, don't really have a strong following in the four-wheel-drive world...specifically here in the U.S......might want to pick a better arguing point when surrounding by people that generally bleed red,white and blue when we get cut.

Last edited by toast; March 12th, 2012 at 11:26 AM.
toast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 12th, 2012, 11:32 AM   #256
kickstand
sHaMoNe!
 
kickstand's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-20-06
Location: fenton
Posts: 30,179
iTrader: (46)
Quote:
Originally Posted by toast View Post
C'mon, Seriously, give it a rest. I can't speak for anyone but myself, but i think he was being sarcastic.it went undetected. When was the last time you heard a guy that like wheeling, spout off about something saying "mohammad f'ing allah!!" (that's weird anyways, and taken out of context sounds bad, really bad) or "mohammad damnit!" or "allah damnit!" ....Never, but why suggest using someone elses god (because that would be offensive to them) when you just got offended someone used yours?

I mean come on. It just rubs the wrong way to someone who believes in Jesus Christ here's that. I am not here to cast stones, but simply defend my beliefs. And we have all made hypocritical statements and actions. Again, none of us are perfect. That's fine that it rubs you the wrong way, and I see no problem with asking someone not to say it.

Lets be clear, this thread started by a simple question...to which there has been no real good answer, and some worse than others. It has gone form religion to budget to taxes to work ethic, back to taxes then to a picture of a cat, that quickly got turned on the owner, then back to taxes to income to class discrimination to religion to all the while blaming each other for the nations problems. SO we have effectively and accurately performed a re-enactment of a session of congress with similar results. Why should we have gotten anything done, right? The only difference is we got paid what we should have for these results....nothing. If you consider someone telling you that you have a big pussy getting "turned on" then you either have a sick fetish, or thin skin, your choice I suppose......

.
with a coexist avatar, and such a thin skinned reaction to someone else using the term Jesus Christ I'd figure he wouldn't then point to someone elses religion as an acceptable form of expressing "jesus christ"
.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by toast View Post
OK. Are you muslim? If not, have you taken offense to that as a personal attack on a muslim? If not, then do you find his, all be it hypothetical suggestion, seriously genuine in origin? If so, you must have hurt feelings or know someone that does and want to say something about it, like you just did......juuust like he did when he took personal offense to some one taking Gods name in vain......


So I guess we are all set here....with this.....Lets get back to the riveting..(that was sarcastic).. world of politics.... shall we?

BTW, I may be mistaken, but supporters of the muslim faith, all be it a false faith to a false god, don't really have a strong following in the four-wheel-drive world...specifically here in the U.S......might want to pick a better arguing point when surrounding by people that generally bleed red,white and blue when we get cut.
Who are you to determine that anyone elses god is any more real, or false then your own? That's a bit hypocritical isn't it?

What's your argument? You met jesus, but they haven't met allah or whoever they believe in? Or someone told you jesus was real but their god isn't?

This is the problem with religion, you guys are so open minded and accepting of the idea of YOUR religion, but have the same disrespect for someone elses as some else has of yours, but YOURS is more important and needs to be respected?
kickstand is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 12th, 2012, 11:48 AM   #257
tctrojan17
Sexy and I know it.
 
tctrojan17's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05-21-10
Location: traverse city
Posts: 888
iTrader: (5)
Quote:
Originally Posted by toast View Post
So if someone spouted off at you in a manner that used words that were offensive to you, you would just shrug it off and say, "well those are just words, they mean nothing and do not offend me at all...". I doubt that as I am sure you would take some offense. That is what ABER61 is saying, that we take personal offense to those words and that others could probably come up with other choices that could convey the same sentiment and sound well thought out rather that just spouting off.

Make no preconceived notion,I am guilty of this too, but am trying to make a change. Taking my Gods name in vain is also something that I occasionally do also, when I am pissed off and loose control of my emotions. Like I said I am not perfect, never will be, but I am trying to change the way I speak.

I also understand your point of view, but disagree. They are more than words to those who hear them.
Anything can offend a person and God Damnit and Jesus Christ are just words that you are choosing to allow to offend you. There are things people do that I find offensive, but I have no right to ask them to stop doing it because of that. It is not their job to walk on eggshells just so they do not offend me. Put on your big boy shorts and get over it or remove yourself from the offensive environment/person.
tctrojan17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 12th, 2012, 11:57 AM   #258
ckupq
Kitten I'm gonna eat you!
 
ckupq's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-07-05
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA 52402
Posts: 3,333
iTrader: (6)
Quote:
Originally Posted by toast View Post
OK. Are you muslim? No. If not, have you taken offense to that as a personal attack on a muslim? Yes. If not, then do you find his, all be it hypothetical suggestion, seriously genuine in origin? Yes.If so, you must have hurt feelings or know someone that does and want to say something about it, like you just did......juuust like he did when he took personal offense to some one taking Gods name in vain...... I don't have hurt feelings, I just think he's an hypocrite.


So I guess we are all set here....with this.....Lets get back to the riveting..(that was sarcastic).. world of politics.... shall we?

BTW, I may be mistaken, but supporters of the muslim faith, all be it a false faith to a false god, don't really have a strong following in the four-wheel-drive world...specifically here in the U.S......might want to pick a better arguing point when surrounding by people that generally bleed red,white and blue when we get cut.
There you go again being a like Aber, you can't say anything without belittling someone for being different than you.
ckupq is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 12th, 2012, 12:46 PM   #259
silveradoboy
Sam Brown
 
silveradoboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02-28-12
Location: Waterford/Cheyboygan
Posts: 1,884
iTrader: (3)
Im voting for Ron Paul. I know he is not going to get the nomination but I am not a fan of any of the other candidates. I dont hate Obama as a person, but I do not believe in the Democratic system, and I do not think America is better off with a Democrat in office. Just my $.02
silveradoboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 12th, 2012, 12:59 PM   #260
toast
i break stuff
 
toast's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02-14-07
Location: West Michigan
Posts: 480
iTrader: (3)
Well where to begin. There is not enough time in the day, to explain this too you on a forum like this. If you'd like to get together and discuss it further, I'd be happy to. Although, I can see by the reply's there might be a little of an closed mindedness and unwillingness to listen.

And I do understand how you may think that this is hypocritical, but I kindly disagree.

Why don't you take a few years to research it, then come back to me and tell me what you think. Until then, I think that this is just the argument of those that may choose the road more traveled and the path of ease and least resistance. It's easy to bash a Christian, target is huge and the criticism has been well versed for eons by weaker individuals. It is easier to not be a Christian, life is "easy" and that's that.

I may be fairly course to those of you who are not familiar with which I speak. I expect that. So I am happy to answer any questions that you are willing to hear the answer to. The questions that are not asked have answers that you may not have the spine to handle yet. So I can expect what is to come of this, and therefor have no answers that lack thought, heart and soul.

I am well versed in sarcasm, spite, profanity, sin, slander, and all that go along with. I have sinned in the eyes of God, and am not proud of it. But I have asked for forgiveness, and it has been granted. I have been inclined to use harsh words to scare someone into not responding and therefor have had the last word. I am not proud of this approach and it did not help the receiver at all.

This has already taken too long and is not the right platform for this. So please p.m. me to further this.
toast is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:18 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2005 - 2012 Cracker Enterprises - Powered by Linux
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=
Page generated in 0.30427 seconds with 51 queries