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Old September 20th, 2006, 06:45 PM   #1
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Default ok. I'm almost ready to thermite my 350.. Help needed with injectors/TPI.

88 vette tpi mixed with a 91 IROC ECM

Fuel pressure - regulator cutting out at 46 PSI in the rail, EXACTLY where it should be.

Injectors power and pulse PERFECT AND STRONG when testing with a noid light

Strong spark.

NO RUN!!

I'm not getting fuel into my cylinders. The thing runs good off ether or gas misted into the intake.

Any ideas?

Injectors ohm at 16.4-16.8 exactly where they should be, and I have fuel pressure..
I have good 12 volts to the injectors, and a good ground going to the ECM..

argh
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Old September 20th, 2006, 06:59 PM   #2
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did you purge the air out of the fuel lines?
if not then you are just packing air and the fuel hasn't gotten there yet
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Old September 20th, 2006, 07:00 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yetti
if not then you are just packing air and the fuel hasn't gotten there yet
I brought that up, but Tonka, Hacksaw and Swampjeep say it should of purged during the 50 times we have cranked it over during testing.
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Old September 20th, 2006, 07:22 PM   #4
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Tap on the injectors while cranking it over... I just talked with hacksaw...I tried calling you but you were in the house...
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Old September 20th, 2006, 07:26 PM   #5
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Tap on the injectors while cranking it over... I just talked with hacksaw...I tried calling you but you were in the house...

yeah, but thats playing the odds game that 8/8 are not firing... Theres something else wrong..

Unless you are saying they all are plugged.
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Old September 20th, 2006, 07:33 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkstoncracker
yeah, but thats playing the odds game that 8/8 are not firing... Theres something else wrong..

Unless you are saying they all are plugged.
If thats the case spray some either in the TB. See if the focker wants to start.
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Old September 20th, 2006, 07:36 PM   #7
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If thats the case spray some either in the TB. See if the focker wants to start.

please re-read orignal post
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Old September 20th, 2006, 07:37 PM   #8
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please re-read orignal post
Sorry.
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Old September 20th, 2006, 07:45 PM   #9
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is there a crank sensor or some other device to tell the pump to put fuel in the rail?
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Old September 20th, 2006, 08:08 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkstoncracker
yeah, but thats playing the odds game that 8/8 are not firing... Theres something else wrong..

Unless you are saying they all are plugged.
I would hope not... but they have not fired for few years. Yes you have signal to the injector but they are not firing.. making me think more that they, well not clogged but maybe the plunger is stuck.
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Old September 20th, 2006, 09:47 PM   #11
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Happen to have access to an oscilloscope? Have you looked at the waveform on the injectors to see if you are getting anything? You have good grounds to the engine?


I have a nice little 2 channel tektronix digital scope. Perhaps if you don't get it, we can find a time to look at the signals. (I'd lend it to you, but its a $1200 scope and lots of people around here don't like me very much..)

Keep us up to date.
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Old September 20th, 2006, 09:50 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by KILLER"B&quot View Post
I would hope not... but they have not fired for few years. Yes you have signal to the injector but they are not firing.. making me think more that they, well not clogged but maybe the plunger is stuck.
You might also pull the fuel rail, pressurize it, and manually fire an injector into a bucket, to see if you are getting them to fire or if they are stuck.

I'd agree, 8 stuck injectors would be odd.

Are you sure your timing is not 180 out? Or is it that you are getting no gas actually into the cylinder?
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Old September 20th, 2006, 09:59 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar
You might also pull the fuel rail, pressurize it, and manually fire an injector into a bucket, to see if you are getting them to fire or if they are stuck.

I'd agree, 8 stuck injectors would be odd.

Are you sure your timing is not 180 out? Or is it that you are getting no gas actually into the cylinder?

that was my original thought also, is that the timing might be 180 out. then again, would think that would be one of the first things to check.
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Old September 20th, 2006, 10:14 PM   #14
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Edit, ok, yes, I see you specifically aren't getting fuel into the cylinders...

I'm betting a wiring problem, still. A test light indicates voltage at the high side of the injector, but not correct current flow though it (a bad ground, bad wiring, or a bad ECU could all be culprits there).


Any change you have a mismatch between your injectors and the ECU you have?

There are high and low impedance type, both saturated and peak-and-holds. Don't know much specifically about TPI injectors. On hondas, thats a problem people run into sometimes, though.

Does your setup require an external resistor box for the injectors?
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Old September 20th, 2006, 10:28 PM   #15
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I would say that the timing is close because it runs good on ether.
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Old September 20th, 2006, 11:04 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkstoncracker
88 vette tpi mixed with a 91 IROC ECM
'88 vette's had mass air flow senser and took ecm 1227165, '91 iroc did not use m.a.f. I was gonna check your ecm # from another post, but i think you deleted it.(memory seems to think wasn't #1227165)

Does your engine have a knock sensor?

Might you have the wrong ecm?

Last edited by Mongo; September 20th, 2006 at 11:07 PM.
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Old September 21st, 2006, 06:58 AM   #17
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This exact same setup worked 2 years ago in SwampJeeps jeep. The reason you use a camaro ECM is to delete the need for a mass airflow sensor, hence the mismatch in the ECM's.

Well, Obviously its not a timing issue since it runs off ether, and that would not effect zero gas in the cylinders.

I'm going to try tapping on one of the injectors to see if I can get some sort of fuel through it. Removing a fuel rail is a last resort, as the intake runners are a bitch to remove.

I just bought a new ECM on ebay, and I will try that before removing the fuelling system. It probably wouldn't hurt to have a spare ECM anyways.

I thought the purpose of a "Noid" light was to check voltage and pulsing to the injector itself. I have a good ground from the injector, as well as 12v to the injector, so I do not think I have issues unless the ECM itself has an internal issue with the grounding setup. (there are always 12volts to the injectors, and the ECM grounds them to fire)

I'll run a megger through my grounds when I get home from work today. I find it very odd that all 8 injectors would be plugged, or at least I think I would get some kind of firing if one or two injectors were firing.. It sure sounds electrical to me.
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Old September 21st, 2006, 07:40 AM   #18
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Is that system returnless or is there a return line after the rail?
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Old September 21st, 2006, 08:34 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar
Is that system returnless or is there a return line after the rail?

Pump puts out 85 psi.

3/8th feeder tube to the rail, regulator knocks it to a usable 46psi.

5/16" return line going back. The return line has alot of fuel dumping back into the fuel cell.

I can pinch the return line, thus increasing pressure to the rail itself. This did not help the injectors fire.
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Old September 21st, 2006, 08:41 AM   #20
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Can you lower the fuel pressure?

From the noid light it seems everything is working fine, and it does run when supplied with fuel so I'm going along with Bill that the plungers may be stuck.

You could pick up another injector (just one) and put it in. If you get a sputter then replace them all.
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