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Old February 25th, 2012, 06:47 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by mikesova View Post
Why do you feel the need to mention that "blacks used to own blacks as slaves" ? I wasn't referring to race, or claiming that only white people owned slaves, so I'm not sure why you mentioned it. I also wouldn't worship those people or their founding document drafting skills.

I disagree with you on the founding fathers wanting to 'promote christianity'. Maybe some wanted to on their own personal time, but not on behalf of the government. When you look at the way the constitution and subsequent laws were drafted, they didn't want to mix government with religion.
For starters when you mention founding fathers owning humans that really means white people owning slaves. We all know what it means why go to the trouble of gift wrapping your response.
As for thier drafting skills, I'd like to see you come up with something even close.
You disagree about them promoting Christianity but thier actions according to thier own documents says different. As for you suggesting they would do promote Christianity on thier own time, really? Did you know that Jefferson had written more than 27,000 documents. I wonder how much personal time he had.
You have a point about not wanting to mix religion/government because that is what the people fleed from. They did not want the church to influence the government.
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Old February 25th, 2012, 06:49 PM   #62
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Holy crap Sova, That was a drastic subject change, even for you. You almost always say "the founding fathers this". But when some one brings a logical answer to you you automatically change the subject to "well they weren't perfect".
I have noticed that when liberals don't have a leg to stand on they tend to go off on little rabbit trails as to change the subject. A skillful way to avoid the subject at hand.
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Old February 25th, 2012, 06:55 PM   #63
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That's not really true, VERY few of the founding fathers agreed with slavery. If you read the history of the constitution you'll find that the only reason it wasn't outright banned was that they (the abolitionists) knew the constitution would never had been ratified. They felt that the foundation had been laid in the constitution and declaration that would eventually lead to the end of slavery.

This tact of the left to rewrite our history, to try to tarnish the founders in an effort to delegitimize in some way the founding of our nation is appalling.

If one understands the times in which the constitution was written, reads the non-public writings (as well as some public writings) of the founders, you can clearly see their views.

In 1774, Benjamin Franklin and Benjamin Rush founded America's first antislavery society; John Jay was president of a similar society in New York.

Pennsylvania and Massachusetts abolished slavery in 1780; Connecticut and Rhode Island did so in 1784; New Hampshire in 1792; Vermont in 1793; New York in 1799; and New Jersey in 1804. Furthermore, the reason that the states of Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Iowa all prohibited slavery was a federal act authored by Rufus King (signer of the Constitution) and signed into law by President George Washington which prohibited slavery in those territories.

“I can only say that there is not a man living who wishes more sincerely than I do to see a plan adopted for the abolition of it [slavery].”
—George Washington

“[M]y opinion against it [slavery] has always been known… [N]ever in my life did I own a slave.”
—John Adams

“[W]hy keep alive the question of slavery? It is admitted by all to be a great evil.”
—Charles Carroll

“As Congress is now to legislate for our extensive territory lately acquired, I pray to Heaven that they …[c]urse not the inhabitants of those regions, and of the United States in general, with a permission to introduce bondage [slavery].”
—John Dickinson

So, before we start bashing our heritage, let's have a little understanding of them at the very least.
Great points.
It was the very democratic party that was against abolishings slavery but today they still enslave a large majority of the african american people by keeping them on welfare and entitlements.
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Old February 25th, 2012, 07:16 PM   #64
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ABDER61,

What have you done personally to bring peace to this world? Do you just fill open forums with propaganda?

x2
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Old February 25th, 2012, 07:17 PM   #65
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x2
I already answered the op about his post, as I could ask you the same.
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Old February 25th, 2012, 07:28 PM   #66
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I already answered the op about his post, as I could ask you the same.

I guess marines stick together and/or i was agreeing with his question/statement to you. now what did you wanna ask me?
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Old February 25th, 2012, 07:44 PM   #67
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I have noticed that when liberals don't have a leg to stand on they tend to go off on little rabbit trails as to change the subject. A skillful way to avoid the subject at hand.
we're talking about the founding fathers. He mentioned that they had a belief that morals came from a higher power/god. I said, yeah, they also believed some other crazy things like the owning of people was ok enough to allow it when writing the founding documents. How is this going off down a rabbit trail? I believe that you're the kind of that within your own threads.
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Old February 25th, 2012, 08:07 PM   #68
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I guess marines stick together and/or i was agreeing with his question/statement to you. now what did you wanna ask me?
I had no intention of asking you what you had done to bring peace to this world but you said you are a marine, so we know you served this country and preformed your duty and I thank you for your service.
I support the needy in our community and help with clothes and food. Support ministries through pastors that travel to mexico, south america and the mid east to spread the gospel of Jesus Christ to the homeless and needy. I feel like I would really want to do more but can't at this time.
As for what you do is the ultimate sacrifice. Putting your life on the line as you and all of the armed forces do for freedom. Thank you Sir.
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Old February 25th, 2012, 08:11 PM   #69
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we're talking about the founding fathers. He mentioned that they had a belief that morals came from a higher power/god. I said, yeah, they also believed some other crazy things like the owning of people was ok enough to allow it when writing the founding documents. How is this going off down a rabbit trail? I believe that you're the kind of that within your own threads.
So you didn't change the subject?
You see back in those days many people saw it ok to own slaves and some did not, just as today many believe it is ok for a mother to kill its unborn baby when we all know it's wrong.
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Old February 25th, 2012, 09:59 PM   #70
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So you didn't change the subject?
You see back in those days many people saw it ok to own slaves and some did not, just as today many believe it is ok for a mother to kill its unborn baby when we all know it's wrong.

I apologize to everybody who has ignore set for aber, I just keep quoting his stuff. I'll stop now.
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