An Education in Islam - Page 2 - Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest

Go Back   Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat
GL4x4 Live! GL4x4 Casino

Politics, Government, or Religion Chat Bring your flamesuit!

greatlakes4x4.com is the premier Great Lakes 4x4 Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Search
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old February 21st, 2012, 07:16 PM   #21
L4CX
Out for the Summer!
 
L4CX's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-16-07
Location: Hillsdale, MI
Posts: 4,994
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kerryann View Post
I think Scott has his beliefs but he isn't so biased that he can't carry on an intelligent conversation. I disagree with Mike on your intelligence level Scott. Do you want me to beat him.

Aber needs to get out and meet some people and stop getting all of his "facts" from the 700 club.
No, it's ok. I'm sure sure he has enough things he gets beat for. I don't want to add to the list.

Side note > I'm not a fan of the 700 club. At one time "XXX church" tried to get onto their show and they refused because it wasn't "Appropriate". XXX church is a Ministry designed to help Young boys and Men who struggle with Pornography. Seems like a great ministry tool to share with people. That's just the tip of the Iceburg. The Bigotry that is preached from that desk is ridiculous.
L4CX is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old February 21st, 2012, 07:18 PM   #22
dougstephvoor
Supreme Chancelor!
 
dougstephvoor's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-21-10
Location: Saranac/Michigan
Posts: 2,218
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

It was great for me to see the epitome of the liberal minded ass clown coming to the realization of Islam, thank you for posting this. It is to bad all of the other ass clowns will not be educated with out a similar level of education, or until their families are directly affected/attacked.
dougstephvoor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 21st, 2012, 08:35 PM   #23
Ridin Dirty
kixx007 wants to be me
 
Ridin Dirty's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12-11-07
Location: Metamora,Mi.
Posts: 8,938
iTrader: (149)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dougstephvoor View Post
It was great for me to see the epitome of the liberal minded ass clown coming to the realization of Islam, thank you for posting this. It is to bad all of the other ass clowns will not be educated with out a similar level of education, or until their families are directly affected/attacked.
Uh, WHAT?
Ridin Dirty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 21st, 2012, 08:52 PM   #24
kerryann
German cars are hot
 
kerryann's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: West Bloomfield
Posts: 11,442
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridin Dirty View Post
Uh, WHAT?
He hopped on the short bus.

I have traveled the world, but I wouldn't go to the middle east for work. I don't think every middle eastern person or muslim is going to kill me but there are bad muslims.
This is the same damn discussion we have had in other threads still on the same page... of the forum.
This is my last input on this discussion... if that makes me a liberal hippy then.. so be it.
kerryann is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 21st, 2012, 08:53 PM   #25
aber61
Senior Member
 
aber61's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-22-08
Location: Commerce Twp. Michigan
Posts: 6,127
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridin Dirty View Post
Uh, WHAT?
What doug said. we have an islam problem and liberals don't like to admit it.

It would be great if they came to this country and put being American first and thier religion second. Which is one of the great freedoms we have.
That is not what they are doing. We need to look at what is going on in Spain for starters.
aber61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 21st, 2012, 08:55 PM   #26
aber61
Senior Member
 
aber61's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-22-08
Location: Commerce Twp. Michigan
Posts: 6,127
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kerryann View Post
He hopped on the short bus.

I have traveled the world, but I wouldn't go to the middle east for work. I don't think every middle eastern person or muslim is going to kill me but there are bad muslims.
This is the same damn discussion we have had in other threads still on the same page... of the forum.
This is my last input on this discussion... if that makes me a liberal hippy then.. so be it.
Short bus I like that.
You are right in saying there are some real bad muslims and they are out to do harm to almost anybody that crosses thier path.
It doesn't make you a liberal hippy, it makes you smart
aber61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 21st, 2012, 10:10 PM   #27
L4CX
Out for the Summer!
 
L4CX's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-16-07
Location: Hillsdale, MI
Posts: 4,994
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aber61 View Post
What doug said. we have an islam problem and liberals don't like to admit it.

It would be great if they came to this country and put being American first and thier religion second. Which is one of the great freedoms we have.
That is not what they are doing. We need to look at what is going on in Spain for starters.
So......... Are you Christian first? Or american?

Couldn't resist.
L4CX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2012, 07:34 AM   #28
aber61
Senior Member
 
aber61's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-22-08
Location: Commerce Twp. Michigan
Posts: 6,127
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
So......... Are you Christian first? Or american?

Couldn't resist.
I guess by some of my posts you would think American. I feel strongly about the freedoms we have here and see them slowly being eroded away does concern me.
However Christ is first.
aber61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2012, 07:39 AM   #29
mikesova
My 4x4 is a Subaru.
 
mikesova's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Gladwin, MI
Posts: 7,811
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to mikesova
Default

So it's ok for you to put your religion before your country, but you don't want Muslims to do the same? You are a walking/talking contradiction machine.
mikesova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2012, 07:48 AM   #30
aber61
Senior Member
 
aber61's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-22-08
Location: Commerce Twp. Michigan
Posts: 6,127
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesova View Post
So it's ok for you to put your religion before your country, but you don't want Muslims to do the same? You are a walking/talking contradiction machine.
This country was founded on Christian principles. Given the right to practice any religion you please and I choose Christianity. I am no less patriotic to this country but Jesus is 1st. At least I stand for more than just myself
Try wallbuilders.com
aber61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2012, 04:54 PM   #31
L4CX
Out for the Summer!
 
L4CX's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-16-07
Location: Hillsdale, MI
Posts: 4,994
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aber61 View Post
I guess by some of my posts you would think American. I feel strongly about the freedoms we have here and see them slowly being eroded away does concern me.
However Christ is first.
Yeah, I was kind of making Sova's point before he even said it. They have just as much right to put their religion first. According to our constitution. I love devil's Advocate sometimes.
L4CX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2012, 06:03 PM   #32
aber61
Senior Member
 
aber61's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-22-08
Location: Commerce Twp. Michigan
Posts: 6,127
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
Yeah, I was kind of making Sova's point before he even said it. They have just as much right to put their religion first. According to our constitution. I love devil's Advocate sometimes.
I suppose they could put thier religion before thier country but is it not about being partriotic and a sence of being an American. I remember a while ago there was something to do with Mexicans flying thier flag over top of the American flag along border towns and Americans getting pretty upset over it. I am not sure but don't other countries require you to renouce your old citizenship before you become a citizen of thiers?
Being a Christian is putting Christ 1st and the rest falls in place. I believe Christianity has a special place in this country, as it was at one time promoted by our founding fathers for others to follow, namely American Indians and people immigrating to this land and not forced upon anyone.
aber61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2012, 06:21 PM   #33
mikesova
My 4x4 is a Subaru.
 
mikesova's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Gladwin, MI
Posts: 7,811
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to mikesova
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aber61 View Post
This country was founded on Christian principles. Given the right to practice any religion you please and I choose Christianity. I am no less patriotic to this country but Jesus is 1st. At least I stand for more than just myself
Try wallbuilders.com
I disagree, but you already know that. I'm sure there were quite a few Christians who helped in the founding of our country, but I disagree that the principles they founded our country on are exclusive to Christianity. Could you name some that are?
mikesova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2012, 08:51 PM   #34
aber61
Senior Member
 
aber61's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-22-08
Location: Commerce Twp. Michigan
Posts: 6,127
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesova View Post
I disagree, but you already know that. I'm sure there were quite a few Christians who helped in the founding of our country, but I disagree that the principles they founded our country on are exclusive to Christianity. Could you name some that are?
I know you being a teacher and all, and look forward to doing reasearch to keep up on your education. How about your research wallbuilders and find it there. See I could name a few but there is so much more information there that you could educate the kids of your class to the history of this nation.
Do you think that if our founding fathers were muslims that they would want to promote Christianity? Or if they were catholics they would promote islam?
Seriously Mike.
aber61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2012, 09:54 PM   #35
mikesova
My 4x4 is a Subaru.
 
mikesova's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Gladwin, MI
Posts: 7,811
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to mikesova
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aber61 View Post
I know you being a teacher and all, and look forward to doing reasearch to keep up on your education. How about your research wallbuilders and find it there. See I could name a few but there is so much more information there that you could educate the kids of your class to the history of this nation.
Do you think that if our founding fathers were muslims that they would want to promote Christianity? Or if they were catholics they would promote islam?
Seriously Mike.
You can't name one. I figured you couldn't. Our founding fathers weren't trying to promote Christianity, nor any religion, that's why they wrote the constitution the way they did.
mikesova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2012, 10:26 PM   #36
aber61
Senior Member
 
aber61's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-22-08
Location: Commerce Twp. Michigan
Posts: 6,127
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesova View Post
You can't name one. I figured you couldn't. Our founding fathers weren't trying to promote Christianity, nor any religion, that's why they wrote the constitution the way they did.
Obviously you did not read up on the site I mentioned.
I recieved a book from a law student, called, The Constitution of The United States.
In it I found something from John Adams,
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. ( the works of John Adams, ed. C.F Adams,Boston: Little, BrownCo.1851,4:31) John Adams

A link to where you can read it yourself,

http://www.nccs.net/
aber61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2012, 10:46 PM   #37
aber61
Senior Member
 
aber61's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-22-08
Location: Commerce Twp. Michigan
Posts: 6,127
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesova View Post
I disagree, but you already know that. I'm sure there were quite a few Christians who helped in the founding of our country, but I disagree that the principles they founded our country on are exclusive to Christianity. Could you name some that are?
I believe I found what you aren't looking for, Its a good read, alittle long but educational.

http://www.wallbuilders.com/libissue...les.asp?id=121
aber61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2012, 10:57 PM   #38
mikesova
My 4x4 is a Subaru.
 
mikesova's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Gladwin, MI
Posts: 7,811
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to mikesova
Default

Abe, stop with the links...

After all the research you've done, you can't name a single exclusively Christian principle that shaped our government?

I think you should stop telling people that our country was founded on Christian principles if you don't even know one of them.
mikesova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2012, 11:04 PM   #39
mikesova
My 4x4 is a Subaru.
 
mikesova's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Gladwin, MI
Posts: 7,811
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to mikesova
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aber61 View Post
Obviously you did not read up on the site I mentioned.
I recieved a book from a law student, called, The Constitution of The United States.
In it I found something from John Adams,
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. ( the works of John Adams, ed. C.F Adams,Boston: Little, BrownCo.1851,4:31) John Adams

A link to where you can read it yourself,

http://www.nccs.net/
Your link takes you to the homepage, no quote. I don't think John Adams is the one you want to quote when attempting to argue the christian nation thing:

"As the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen [Muslims] ... it is declared ... that no pretext arising from religious opinion shall ever product an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries....
"The United States is not a Christian nation any more than it is a Jewish or a Mohammedan nation."

-- Treaty of Tripoli (1797), carried unanimously by the Senate and signed into law by John Adams (the original language is by Joel Barlow, US Consul)

http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/adams.htm
mikesova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 23rd, 2012, 07:21 AM   #40
aber61
Senior Member
 
aber61's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-22-08
Location: Commerce Twp. Michigan
Posts: 6,127
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesova View Post
Abe, stop with the links...

After all the research you've done, you can't name a single exclusively Christian principle that shaped our government?

I think you should stop telling people that our country was founded on Christian principles if you don't even know one of them.
See mike I was giving you an opportunity to read it for your self because there is plenty of information about our founding fathers and what they wanted for this country. But you would not even read it, so I posted a few paragraphs for you. These are also in the original hand writings of the founding fathers, so I don't think you can deny that so easliy, but I'm sure you'll try.

here: Jefferson urged local governments to make land available specifically for Christian purposes; [5]


In an 1803 federal Indian treaty, Jefferson willingly agreed to provide $300 to “assist the said Kaskaskia tribe in the erection of a church” and to provide “annually for seven years $100 towards the support of a Catholic priest.” He also signed three separate acts setting aside government lands for the sole use of religious groups and setting aside government lands so that Moravian missionaries might be assisted in “promoting Christianity.” [6]


When Washington D. C. became the national capital in 1800, Congress voted that the Capitol building would also serve as a church building. [7] President Jefferson chose to attend church each Sunday at the Capitol [8] and even provided the service with paid government musicians to assist in its worship. [9] Jefferson also began similar Christian services in his own Executive Branch, both at the Treasury Building and at the War Office. [10]


Jefferson praised the use of a local courthouse as a meeting place for Christian services; [11]


Jefferson assured a Christian religious school that it would receive “the patronage of the government”; [12]


Jefferson proposed that the Great Seal of the United States depict a story from the Bible and include the word “God” in its motto; [13]


While President, Jefferson closed his presidential documents with the phrase, “In the year of our Lord Christ; by the President; Thomas Jefferson.”

Last edited by aber61; February 23rd, 2012 at 07:26 AM.
aber61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:20 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright 2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Page generated in 0.35106 seconds with 80 queries