Air shock help - Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest

Go Back   Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > 4x4 Talk > General Tech
GL4x4 Live! GL4x4 Casino

greatlakes4x4.com is the premier Great Lakes 4x4 Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Search
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old February 19th, 2012, 06:45 PM   #1
92FleXj
stacks stacked on stacks
 
92FleXj's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-04-11
Location: Howell, MI
Posts: 2,278
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default Air shock help

So I had another thread about how my Xj body would roll when I turn. It was BAD. So after some investigating I found that my steering angle was what was hindering me.
You should also know that I have air shocks on all 4. Front and rear 4 link with the top being a wishbone.
Also has high steer.
So I took steering arm and gear box off and set up full hydro. Got it all done today, took it up the road. And same thing happens (maybe worse)
The body will just basically flop from drivers side to passenger side. But other times it will stay level.
The good side is I now have full hydro but I still have this issue. It is basically not possible to drive the jeep with out a sway bar. Even if I was at R&V I would have to run one or it would be a mess.
My first question is has this happened to any one else that runs air shocks and 4 link?
What psi should these air shocks be at?
Is there any ware local to howell that can fill them?
I know it's over 170psi. That's all my gauge goes up to.
Could low air pressure cause this?
And if I end up having to run a sway bar full time (which I don't want to) what one will give me the least restriction but still do its job?

Any info would help. I have a trip the 2nd weekend in march. That does not leave me much time!!!!
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by SS View Post
Know that pocket that forms behind your knee when you sit down?

I'ma fuck it. You're gonna like it too.
92FleXj is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old February 19th, 2012, 06:53 PM   #2
92FleXj
stacks stacked on stacks
 
92FleXj's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-04-11
Location: Howell, MI
Posts: 2,278
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

It seems to me that the shocks are too soft.. But this is my first rig with air instead of coils. So maybe that's how soft it is suppose to be.

I would think more psi would only give me more lift not stability. But I don't want more ride Hight. It's already pretty tall and set up for droop an if poss I'd like to keep it that way.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by SS View Post
Know that pocket that forms behind your knee when you sit down?

I'ma fuck it. You're gonna like it too.
92FleXj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 19th, 2012, 06:55 PM   #3
trailrail302
Im going FAST!!!
 
trailrail302's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02-22-07
Location: north of the equator
Posts: 3,487
iTrader: (10)
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Default

Currie Anti rock sway bar. It will not limit any of your travel.
trailrail302 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 19th, 2012, 07:01 PM   #4
92FleXj
stacks stacked on stacks
 
92FleXj's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-04-11
Location: Howell, MI
Posts: 2,278
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

They make so many lengths. This is the only Xj kit I seen.

http://currieenterprises.reachlocal....id=17881417662

Is this one going to still not limit me? Or should I get a uni kit with longer arms?
I have 20" front air shocks and use every inch of them!
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by SS View Post
Know that pocket that forms behind your knee when you sit down?

I'ma fuck it. You're gonna like it too.
92FleXj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 19th, 2012, 08:12 PM   #5
Tab
Senior Member
 
Tab's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Freeland, mi
Posts: 4,930
iTrader: (29)
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Default

You have 20" travel air shocks? Air shocks are not a bolt on a run modification. They require a great deal of tuning by adjusting the oil volume and nitrogen pressure. You need a measuring cup with cc measurements and a lot of new, clean, shock oil. You can get both at a motorcycle shop. Then you need a cylinder of nitrogen with a high pressure hose and one way valve/guage setup so when you put in 180 pounds of nitrogen you can shut off the valve before you unscrew the fitting so you don't lose any pressure. If you're just using an air chuck and filling it and checking it with a tire guage you won't get it right or even on all 4 shocks. You lose pressure every time you pull that tire chuck off and every time you put on a plain old tire guage on and off to check your pressure. There are a ton of good write-ups on Pirate you should read to fully understand what to change to get the desired effect you want.
Tab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 19th, 2012, 08:22 PM   #6
92FleXj
stacks stacked on stacks
 
92FleXj's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-04-11
Location: Howell, MI
Posts: 2,278
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

The tube measures 22" so I'm guessing they are 20" shocks. This set up came on this truck and it's all new to me so I'm still learning.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by SS View Post
Know that pocket that forms behind your knee when you sit down?

I'ma fuck it. You're gonna like it too.
92FleXj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 19th, 2012, 08:23 PM   #7
92FleXj
stacks stacked on stacks
 
92FleXj's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-04-11
Location: Howell, MI
Posts: 2,278
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Planing on coilovers this year. That would solve a lot of my issues
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by SS View Post
Know that pocket that forms behind your knee when you sit down?

I'ma fuck it. You're gonna like it too.
92FleXj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 19th, 2012, 08:44 PM   #8
92FleXj
stacks stacked on stacks
 
92FleXj's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-04-11
Location: Howell, MI
Posts: 2,278
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Sounds like I need more oil by what I've read
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by SS View Post
Know that pocket that forms behind your knee when you sit down?

I'ma fuck it. You're gonna like it too.
92FleXj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 21st, 2012, 08:05 AM   #9
Torg38
TorgFab
 
Torg38's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-01-10
Location: Howell Mi
Posts: 168
iTrader: (4)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

There is a couple of things you can do. Frist off air springs have very little damping at low speed if you combo it with some shocks you will see a big difference. The other is to add a sway bar. You can add it to the rear if you want to keep your flex. As for pressure in the air springs you need to do a little math the formula is psi x area of your piston. So the larger the body of the shock the less air pressure you need to run. Somewhere around 225 250 psi is where i would guess for a cherokee. Any idea what it weights? Run it up to meichal auto salvage and use their scale. I have the adapter to fill those shock but i dont have a regulator that goes that high.....yet
Torg38 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 21st, 2012, 08:15 AM   #10
92FleXj
stacks stacked on stacks
 
92FleXj's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-04-11
Location: Howell, MI
Posts: 2,278
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Torg38 View Post
There is a couple of things you can do. Frist off air springs have very little damping at low speed if you combo it with some shocks you will see a big difference. The other is to add a sway bar. You can add it to the rear if you want to keep your flex. As for pressure in the air springs you need to do a little math the formula is psi x area of your piston. So the larger the body of the shock the less air pressure you need to run. Somewhere around 225 250 psi is where i would guess for a cherokee. Any idea what it weights? Run it up to meichal auto salvage and use their scale. I have the adapter to fill those shock but i dont have a regulator that goes that high.....yet
I bought everything yesterday.
Nitro,shock oil, gauges, valves everything.. I ran it to the same problem. I have 3 regulators and only one fits this tank and after I've drains my shocks, added oil and went to fill them back up did I find my regulator only goes to 80psi...
On the back of my regulator is seys I have 2 Hp ports and 3 LP ports. I'm gonna try and swap it over I guess and see what it will do.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by SS View Post
Know that pocket that forms behind your knee when you sit down?

I'ma fuck it. You're gonna like it too.
92FleXj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 21st, 2012, 05:52 PM   #11
92FleXj
stacks stacked on stacks
 
92FleXj's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-04-11
Location: Howell, MI
Posts: 2,278
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Well I drained the nitro An added 40cc of oil. Filled them back up and no luck. Still super floppy.. So sway bar went back on and now it's stiff as a board again... Fml.
Does any one around here that you guys know of do this? Ware I can drop it off and have them figure out all of the science and do it?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by SS View Post
Know that pocket that forms behind your knee when you sit down?

I'ma fuck it. You're gonna like it too.
92FleXj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 21st, 2012, 06:17 PM   #12
whiterhino
I'm not old, honest...
 
whiterhino's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-07-06
Location: Davisburg MI
Posts: 22,313
iTrader: (22)
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Default

First, figure out your stroke of your shocks. It's a simple as letting the air out of them till they full compress and then using a Hi-lift jack to jack the vehicle till the front axle is hanging from the shock. Measure the amount of exposed shock. That is your stroke. Or, get on the Fox website and compare measurements.
Second, once you know your stroke, you need to determine the amount of up travel (exposed shock) that you want to run. Basically, you want about 1/3 up travel at ride height. Example 12" shock should have about 4" exposed. If you have a 20" stroke shock (which I highly doubt you have) you would want about 6-7 of up travel.

The easiest way to fill your shocks with air is to jack them up to full droop and then apply the Nitrogen. I do not agree that you need the fancy guage and fitting. I have a standard regulator and air chuck. After some practice, I know exactly how much air to put in my shocks.

Next, you need to "work" your shocks once you have air in them. The shocks will settle after your rock your vehicle. If you end up with too much air, do not try to bleed it out by bumping the schrader valve. You will let too much out. Use a valve stem remover and start to back out the schrader valve. Once you hear it start to hiss, count to 5 and close. Or if the shock drops at all, stop. Rock it, repeat. You will be surprised at how easy it gets with some practice.

After you have done all of the above, you should walk up to the front or rear bumper and with all your might, lift up the bumper. If you can lift it more than an inch or so, you do not have enough oil in it. Same with pushing it down. Sounds hokey but it's very effective because your shocks are too soft. If you can move it several inches, add at least 10cc's of shock oil. Once you are getting close on the lift test start adding about 5cc's.

Even after I got it tuned up right I still added a sway bar. It really helped.

Hope this helps.
__________________
GLFWDA member since 1979.
Member Southern Michigan Rock Crawlers.
whiterhino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 21st, 2012, 06:41 PM   #13
92FleXj
stacks stacked on stacks
 
92FleXj's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-04-11
Location: Howell, MI
Posts: 2,278
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by whiterhino View Post
First, figure out your stroke of your shocks. It's a simple as letting the air out of them till they full compress and then using a Hi-lift jack to jack the vehicle till the front axle is hanging from the shock. Measure the amount of exposed shock. That is your stroke. Or, get on the Fox website and compare measurements.
Second, once you know your stroke, you need to determine the amount of up travel (exposed shock) that you want to run. Basically, you want about 1/3 up travel at ride height. Example 12" shock should have about 4" exposed. If you have a 20" stroke shock (which I highly doubt you have) you would want about 6-7 of up travel.

The easiest way to fill your shocks with air is to jack them up to full droop and then apply the Nitrogen. I do not agree that you need the fancy guage and fitting. I have a standard regulator and air chuck. After some practice, I know exactly how much air to put in my shocks.

Next, you need to "work" your shocks once you have air in them. The shocks will settle after your rock your vehicle. If you end up with too much air, do not try to bleed it out by bumping the schrader valve. You will let too much out. Use a valve stem remover and start to back out the schrader valve. Once you hear it start to hiss, count to 5 and close. Or if the shock drops at all, stop. Rock it, repeat. You will be surprised at how easy it gets with some practice.

After you have done all of the above, you should walk up to the front or rear bumper and with all your might, lift up the bumper. If you can lift it more than an inch or so, you do not have enough oil in it. Same with pushing it down. Sounds hokey but it's very effective because your shocks are too soft. If you can move it several inches, add at least 10cc's of shock oil. Once you are getting close on the lift test start adding about 5cc's.

Even after I got it tuned up right I still added a sway bar. It really helped.

Hope this helps.
Basically that's what I've done. But I added 40cc of oil.
I don't have a good regulator that will let me run that high. So basically I'm running a regulator backwards do its direct from the tank and I (very slowly!) crack the tank valve till shock starts to move. It worked good. But even after adding 40 it did not help the sloppiness. When my truck is sitting level I can push up on my driver side (or pass) door jam and the truck will lean about 4" and stay there unless I pull it back.
My front shocks have about 6" of the cylinder showing that's ware the truck is level.
My shock tube ( not the cylinder or the eyelet pieces) but just the putter tube is 21.5" long. From start of tube to end.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by SS View Post
Know that pocket that forms behind your knee when you sit down?

I'ma fuck it. You're gonna like it too.
92FleXj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 21st, 2012, 06:43 PM   #14
92FleXj
stacks stacked on stacks
 
92FleXj's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-04-11
Location: Howell, MI
Posts: 2,278
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

So I ended up also putting my away bar back on but it locks my front suspension basically 50/50. I have no flex. Maby 3" from one tire to the other. And without the sway I can max out my passenger side and fully collapsing my driver side..
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by SS View Post
Know that pocket that forms behind your knee when you sit down?

I'ma fuck it. You're gonna like it too.
92FleXj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 21st, 2012, 06:49 PM   #15
Tab
Senior Member
 
Tab's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Freeland, mi
Posts: 4,930
iTrader: (29)
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Default

Sounds like a too stiff sway bar.
Tab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 21st, 2012, 06:51 PM   #16
92FleXj
stacks stacked on stacks
 
92FleXj's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-04-11
Location: Howell, MI
Posts: 2,278
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tab View Post
Sounds like a too stiff sway bar.
It is but its all I have at the moment.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by SS View Post
Know that pocket that forms behind your knee when you sit down?

I'ma fuck it. You're gonna like it too.
92FleXj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 21st, 2012, 06:58 PM   #17
whiterhino
I'm not old, honest...
 
whiterhino's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-07-06
Location: Davisburg MI
Posts: 22,313
iTrader: (22)
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BennettisTileCo View Post
Basically that's what I've done. But I added 40cc of oil.
I don't have a good regulator that will let me run that high. So basically I'm running a regulator backwards do its direct from the tank and I (very slowly!) crack the tank valve till shock starts to move. It worked good. But even after adding 40 it did not help the sloppiness. When my truck is sitting level I can push up on my driver side (or pass) door jam and the truck will lean about 4" and stay there unless I pull it back.
My front shocks have about 6" of the cylinder showing that's ware the truck is level.
My shock tube ( not the cylinder or the eyelet pieces) but just the putter tube is 21.5" long. From start of tube to end.
Not to be a jerk, but no you didn't. You don't know your stroke, you are guessing. This is not something you should guess at. Second, you say you can move it 4" by rocking it sideways. I said an inch by pulling up on the bumper. You are blowing of things as incidental that are issues you need to take seriously.

At full stroke out, I put about 260 psi in my shocks.

OK, here's some additional help for you. I just measured my shocks. I have 12" stroke shocks and the body is 18.5". So, you have 14" stroke shocks, not 20". Therefore, at ride ht, you want no more than 5" of exposed rod at ride height.
__________________
GLFWDA member since 1979.
Member Southern Michigan Rock Crawlers.

Last edited by whiterhino; February 21st, 2012 at 07:06 PM.
whiterhino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 21st, 2012, 07:04 PM   #18
92FleXj
stacks stacked on stacks
 
92FleXj's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-04-11
Location: Howell, MI
Posts: 2,278
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by whiterhino View Post
Not to be a jerk, but no you didn't. You don't know your stroke, you are guessing. This is not something you should guess at. Second, you say you can move it 4". I said an inch. You are blowing of things as incidental that are issues you need to take seriously.

At full stroke out, I put about 260 psi in my shocks.
My problem is with oil not psi. As far as I've been told psi only effects my ride Hight. As for guessing? All I do not have is my stroke.. I can look at how much droop I want to run and gauge it by that. And I want the truck level. So I put it back to the same ride Hight as it was and level.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by SS View Post
Know that pocket that forms behind your knee when you sit down?

I'ma fuck it. You're gonna like it too.
92FleXj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 21st, 2012, 07:10 PM   #19
whiterhino
I'm not old, honest...
 
whiterhino's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-07-06
Location: Davisburg MI
Posts: 22,313
iTrader: (22)
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Default

Then keep putting more oil in it. You can't put too much oil in it. Just take the schrader valve out an let the air out. If no oil comes out, you aren't hurting anything.

Everyone expects shocks to be simple. They are, but as Tab said, they are not out of the box tuned.
__________________
GLFWDA member since 1979.
Member Southern Michigan Rock Crawlers.
whiterhino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 21st, 2012, 07:42 PM   #20
92FleXj
stacks stacked on stacks
 
92FleXj's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-04-11
Location: Howell, MI
Posts: 2,278
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by whiterhino View Post
Then keep putting more oil in it. You can't put too much oil in it. Just take the schrader valve out an let the air out. If no oil comes out, you aren't hurting anything.

Everyone expects shocks to be simple. They are, but as Tab said, they are not out of the box tuned.
Seems how you've done this before.
When I put oil in with a syringe it seems to be full and comes back out like its full. But if I in bolt the shock from one end and cycle it as I'm filling it seems to take it better. Is this normal?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by SS View Post
Know that pocket that forms behind your knee when you sit down?

I'ma fuck it. You're gonna like it too.
92FleXj is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > 4x4 Talk > General Tech

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:07 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright 2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Page generated in 0.38568 seconds with 80 queries