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Old February 21st, 2012, 06:31 PM   #41
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There is a science to it. The trac bar locates the axle side to side. If your axle is centered at ride height with your current set up, moving the hole over is just going to offset your axle.
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Old February 21st, 2012, 09:05 PM   #42
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well grabed a few beers and looked at suspension for a while and still dont grasp it lol but not a big surprise im better at distroying things then setting them up. so chadcooper55 is what your saying normal then and i shouldnt be so consirned about this right now or is there a way to free up trac bar? (nice build by btw)

i do have the axle centered in jeep as it sits right now with trac bar in place and after reading why you moved your hole over i understand why. the joint in the top of trac bar i will guess is ok in the instructions it says not to have more than 11/2" of threads showing and the threaded part of joint it 21/2 long. i have about 11/4 showing now so hopefully this is ok.

i guess after looking at alot of jeep builds on here and there are some really good ones and prob some of the best fab work out there i see alot of the trac bars that have been moved up to make it in line with steering to reduce bumpsteer. every aftermarket tracbar i see has a flat area from axle till it turns up and heads to frame. i have read you need this to help with bumpsteer. but mose heim based trac bars that i seen go straight from axle to frame. are both ok? if so i know i really do need to raise trac bar just was trying t5o wait while being cheap about it but if i was to raise it is having a heim joint at both ends ok and do u need missiligment washers on this or straight heim joints from axle to frame? i do really appricate all the input from everyone, i like to have a good idea on what to do since this is new to me messing with suspension setups.
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Old February 21st, 2012, 10:17 PM   #43
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borrowed this pic from another site

what are the thoughts on this? will it help free up the ra style lift or am i going to waste alot of money trying to make draglink not bind up.
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Old February 21st, 2012, 11:32 PM   #44
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I like that set up on the pic you borrowed. How ever if you plan to drive down the road I would try to shoot for a longer track bar. Heims would be ok on both sides of the track bar. I'd run the spacers just for the fact that it wouldn't bind at all . Things to twist and turn more then you'd think.
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Old February 21st, 2012, 11:49 PM   #45
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with the tre on the frame side of the traac bar you are limiting the flex as it is binding up there...replace the tre with a heim and replace the frame bracket like in the pic above..
ruff stuff specialties or ballistic fab have a nice bracket for this...i think that you will eleminate your binding issue
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Old February 22nd, 2012, 04:38 AM   #46
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I like that set up on the pic you borrowed. How ever if you plan to drive down the road I would try to shoot for a longer track bar. Heims would be ok on both sides of the track bar. I'd run the spacers just for the fact that it wouldn't bind at all . Things to twist and turn more then you'd think.
X2 on the longer track bar than what is in your borrowed pic. The longer and flatter you can get it the better. The longer and flatter the less it is going to move side to side as the suspension goes up and down. Mine is too short on my setup I have right now but I am changing that before it hits the road.
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Old February 22nd, 2012, 07:41 AM   #47
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how bad willit be on theroad with a shorter trac bar? i dont dd this rig and it is trailered when i take it to wheel but i do want tokeep it streetable in case i was to have to drive it home and once a week or so i run it to work which is only a few miles. would i be better off leaving the longer tac bar now and letting it bind up? kinda lost cause nowboth seem wrong
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Old February 22nd, 2012, 07:54 AM   #48
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Also notice in the pic he also has high steer. If you move the trac bar. And cut it shorter you have to do the same to your steering or your trac and steering will bind. And again you will have no flex. It's just like a 4 link. If your upper and lower bars are the same length and from your top bar to your lower bar on your axel is say 8" and up at the truck it's say 12" it will not work properly.
The most important thing that needs to work properly is your steering!!!!!!
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Old February 22nd, 2012, 08:09 AM   #49
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if running the shorter trac bar will be ok i have a 4" drop pitman arm i ordered with my lift and since its a y style the steering and above theknuckles cause its from a wagoneer should be close to same angle but if that is a bad idea then i dont mind spending to $ to do crossover if it will make it right just means it will be sitting a little longer. i have read sometime u cant do crossover because tires will rub the upper joints on crossover bracket. any way tocheck before i order the correct knuckles for it? but if the shorter trac bar will mean realy bad road manors then this would be pointless iguess?
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Old February 22nd, 2012, 08:47 AM   #50
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We used superduty knuckles and ran them on the top side of the stock knuckle. But every set up is deferent
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Old February 22nd, 2012, 02:16 PM   #51
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Shorter the trac bar the worse everything will be. It needs to be as long as possible and as flat as possible, or at least match your drag link as close as possible. The shorter it is the more the axle moves laterally (bad) when it is flexing. The axle will try and "swing" left and right causing fitment issues with everything else. Here is what I would do.
Get a track bar lowering bracket for the frame side.
Try to make the axle end a little higher.
Get or make a track bar with less bends and rod ends at both ends.
PUT IT ALL TOGETHER AND ACTUALLY DRIVE IT! Stop trying to flex it out with jacks. They cannot and will never be able to replicate the real world.

Last edited by Tab; February 22nd, 2012 at 02:48 PM.
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Old February 22nd, 2012, 02:44 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tab View Post
Shorter the trac bar the worse everything will be. It needs to be as long as possible and as flat as possible, or at least match your drag link as close as possible. The shorter it is the more the axle moves laterally (bad) when it is flexing. The axle will try and "swing" left and right causing fitment issues with everything else. He is what I would do.
Get a track bar lowering bracket for the frame side.
Try to make the axle end a little higher.
Get or make a track bar with less bends and rod ends at both ends.
PUT IT ALL TOGETHER AND ACTUALLY DRIVE IT! Stop trying to flex it out with jacks. They cannot and will never be able to replicate the real world.


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You bought a KIT, some degree of engineering has gone into that kit to make it popular and sold to a lot of people. Put it together and drive it and then tweak if necessary.
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Old February 22nd, 2012, 04:46 PM   #53
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Listen to tab, he knows his shit.
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Old February 22nd, 2012, 05:23 PM   #54
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i will give it a try with the setup the way it is. i cant change axle mount unless i move it to the inside of the passenger coil in turn shorting it. as far as the frame mount goes i allready have a long drop bracket on it but i could make one longer if need be but i know it will put more stress on parts. also i could make a mount on the truss that is level with the front that would raise trac bar about 2" but it will move 2" in also. so for now ill assemble the front and flex it and see what happens. only thing that really worries me is when i jacked up the ds and without the coil it it bound up enough to start lifting the body off jackstands, that just cant be good on all the parts. thank you everyone for all the help and advise
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Old February 22nd, 2012, 05:38 PM   #55
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Picture this. If you could removed your lower control arms completely and imagine the axle flexing up and down (one end at a time) you can see that the track bar probably isn't binding like you think it is. When the drivers side is stuffed up and the passenger side is hanging down the axle is pivoting mostly on the frame end of the track bar. When the passenger side is stuffed up and the drivers side is hanging down it is pivoting mostly on the axle end. The biggest issue you have going on is the horrible design of the radius arm set-up that makes the arms fight each other for flex. They're trying to "twist" the axle in different directions. But honestly if you cannot picture the way the track bar works or how a radius arm suspension works then we can't really help much. Like I said before, you have to drive it (carefully and slowly) to see what its doing or not doing. Jacks and jackstands will not do it.
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Old February 22nd, 2012, 06:57 PM   #56
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i do understand how it works now much better than before. i do get the ra arms are not the best way to go also but got to much money in it now to start over again so for now i just have to make this thing the best it can be for what it is. last question. i get the trac bar angle is prob to much for this lift and the longer the trac bar the better. if i were to mount the trac bar bracket like in the pic and remove the drop bracket on frame side and make a bracket that keeps trac bar closer to frame so it would be a little longer. with a crossover and a t style steering like in pic that would make trac bar mount points on both ends almost the same as the draglink, and if the draglink is very close to same length as the tracbar wouldn't this be the best option so at flex they would move togher and not fight? or am i still not understanding everything and i am just a lost cause and should put my tools away and quit lol. i am really glad for all the diff views cause i have learned alot over the past week.
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Old February 22nd, 2012, 07:23 PM   #57
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I wouldn't do anything until you run it. You have a lot of lift so you're not going to get away from an odd shaped/sized track bar. Run it, go from there.
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Old February 23rd, 2012, 05:37 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tab View Post
Picture this. If you could removed your lower control arms completely and imagine the axle flexing up and down (one end at a time) you can see that the track bar probably isn't binding like you think it is. When the drivers side is stuffed up and the passenger side is hanging down the axle is pivoting mostly on the frame end of the track bar. When the passenger side is stuffed up and the drivers side is hanging down it is pivoting mostly on the axle end. The biggest issue you have going on is the horrible design of the radius arm set-up that makes the arms fight each other for flex. They're trying to "twist" the axle in different directions. But honestly if you cannot picture the way the track bar works or how a radius arm suspension works then we can't really help much. Like I said before, you have to drive it (carefully and slowly) to see what its doing or not doing. Jacks and jackstands will not do it.
I see...there is no spoon.
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Old February 23rd, 2012, 06:38 AM   #59
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Tab (and everyone else for that matter) is giving you good advice. You really need to complete the installation as outlined in Rustys instructions. They have tons of these kits out on the roads and trails and have for several years. I would guess that your Jeep is no different then all the others running it.

I just breezed through this quick so forgive me if this has already been stated. Radius arm setups require a lot of load to flex. You are basically binding the front suspension as soon as the front axle begins to articulate. The arm design turns the front axle into a torsion tube. You will not have enough force in the static situation you are in to properly flex the suspension to its full potential. Plus, I think you are getting the cart in front of the horse by not completing the installation and testing it. This will allow you to see if there is really a problem and then be able to accurately share that issue with Rustys tech support so they can better help you. Plus the worst thing you can do is start changing things before you are completely done with the install. You are going to "fix" a preceived problem and most likely screw something else up down the line.

My only other little bit of advice is that the track bar should be the last thing you install. This needs to be adjusted and installed with the suspension complete and the full weight of the vehicle on the suspension (setting at ride height). That will be the point when you adjust the length to match the mount to mount distance when the axle is center under the vehicle. If you have the track bar installed and axle center with the suspension at full extension it is going to bind like crazy when you try to compress it.

The best solution is to just buy one of our 4 link long arm kits and be happy you switched Sorry, just had to throw that in there since I was giving out free advice.
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Old February 23rd, 2012, 06:56 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt-BDS View Post
Tab (and everyone else for that matter) is giving you good advice. You really need to complete the installation as outlined in Rustys instructions. They have tons of these kits out on the roads and trails and have for several years. I would guess that your Jeep is no different then all the others running it.

I just breezed through this quick so forgive me if this has already been stated. Radius arm setups require a lot of load to flex. You are basically binding the front suspension as soon as the front axle begins to articulate. The arm design turns the front axle into a torsion tube. You will not have enough force in the static situation you are in to properly flex the suspension to its full potential. Plus, I think you are getting the cart in front of the horse by not completing the installation and testing it. This will allow you to see if there is really a problem and then be able to accurately share that issue with Rustys tech support so they can better help you. Plus the worst thing you can do is start changing things before you are completely done with the install. You are going to "fix" a preceived problem and most likely screw something else up down the line.

My only other little bit of advice is that the track bar should be the last thing you install. This needs to be adjusted and installed with the suspension complete and the full weight of the vehicle on the suspension (setting at ride height). That will be the point when you adjust the length to match the mount to mount distance when the axle is center under the vehicle. If you have the track bar installed and axle center with the suspension at full extension it is going to bind like crazy when you try to compress it.

The best solution is to just buy one of our 4 link long arm kits and be happy you switched Sorry, just had to throw that in there since I was giving out free advice.
I've seen the Bds 4 link on an XJ. Looks like a little more work but worth the time!
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