Catholic Contraception Debacle - Page 6 - Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest

Go Back   Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat
GL4x4 Live! GL4x4 Casino

Politics, Government, or Religion Chat Bring your flamesuit!

greatlakes4x4.com is the premier Great Lakes 4x4 Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Search
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old February 14th, 2012, 11:45 AM   #101
3-foot
Senior Member
 
3-foot's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-21-06
Location: Springfield Township, Mi
Posts: 1,121
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Are you all done arguing religion now?

The real story here, in my opinion, is this:

The goal of the Dept of HHS under Mrs Sebelius, and the goal of Obama care, is to get to a single payer (governement) system. The only way to do that is to eliminate other health care providers. Mandating birth control coverage is an easy way to eliminate the Catholic health care providers. Give them a choice, support contriception or drop your coverage and send all those people into the government system.

DHHS knows very well the church will never support giving out birth control with their own funds. The government is forcing their hand hoping to add names to the single payer dole.
3-foot is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old February 14th, 2012, 11:50 AM   #102
dietcoke313
"I was swimming"
 
dietcoke313's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-08-08
Location: allen park mi.
Posts: 304
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3-foot View Post
Are you all done arguing religion now?

The real story here, in my opinion, is this:

The goal of the Dept of HHS under Mrs Sebelius, and the goal of Obama care, is to get to a single payer (governement) system. The only way to do that is to eliminate other health care providers. Mandating birth control coverage is an easy way to eliminate the Catholic health care providers. Give them a choice, support contriception or drop your coverage and send all those people into the government system.

DHHS knows very well the church will never support giving out birth control with their own funds. The government is forcing their hand hoping to add names to the single payer dole.
And I thought that I went off the deep end.
dietcoke313 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 14th, 2012, 12:29 PM   #103
ScOoTeR
hoo dat. wat.
 
ScOoTeR's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-09-05
Location: Howell
Posts: 21,579
iTrader: (36)
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiefwoohaw View Post
He's not the catholic church so it doesn't really matter in this thread . . . why are you engaging him to go off the wall and change the topic which is what you bitch about in all his other threads??
Drew - you're guilty of doing the same thing.

Question is - who picked up this habit from whom in college?
__________________
@clarkstoncracker
ScOoTeR is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 14th, 2012, 12:44 PM   #104
ScOoTeR
hoo dat. wat.
 
ScOoTeR's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-09-05
Location: Howell
Posts: 21,579
iTrader: (36)
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dietcoke313 View Post
You are just a little punk ass bitch. Run your mouth off, then run. Now you come back with your spokesmen because YOU can't back up your bullshit. Yes I know who he is the one who can see demons.
Whoa whoa whoa.

Back the truck up - mind your manners when addressing folks here like that. No need to break out the juvenile name calling.

What makes Aber61 "a little punk ass bitch" anyway? He never ran away - Scott (L4CX) finally joined the thread to try to help us understand Aber's points. Aber61 isn't the most articulate at getting his post across and L4CX does a good job reading between the lines and explaining it in ways that are less aggressive or one-sided. This isn't "Tag Team Jesus" - these are two guys that found God and try to share their feelings with us, or explain the reasoning behind their religious viewpoints.

Besides, how are you so sure you're right? While I agree that religious views should be shared as an opinion, instead of a totality - how are you or I fit to claim their faith has no merit or foundation?
__________________
@clarkstoncracker
ScOoTeR is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 14th, 2012, 12:56 PM   #105
dietcoke313
"I was swimming"
 
dietcoke313's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-08-08
Location: allen park mi.
Posts: 304
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScOoTeR View Post
Whoa whoa whoa.

Back the truck up - mind your manners when addressing folks here like that. No need to break out the juvenile name calling.

What makes Aber61 "a little punk ass bitch" anyway? He never ran away - Scott (L4CX) finally joined the thread to try to help us understand Aber's points. Aber61 isn't the most articulate at getting his post across and L4CX does a good job reading between the lines and explaining it in ways that are less aggressive or one-sided. This isn't "Tag Team Jesus" - these are two guys that found God and try to share their feelings with us, or explain the reasoning behind their religious viewpoints.

Besides, how are you so sure you're right? While I agree that religious views should be shared as an opinion, instead of a totality - how are you or I fit to claim their faith has no merit or foundation?
This is my point. Thank you. aber equates pro-choice people with hitler and thats supose to be ok. I'm not ok with that. I'm not trying to say faith has no merit.
dietcoke313 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 14th, 2012, 04:39 PM   #106
aber61
Senior Member
 
aber61's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-22-08
Location: Commerce Twp. Michigan
Posts: 6,126
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dietcoke313 View Post
This is my point. Thank you. aber equates pro-choice people with hitler and thats supose to be ok. I'm not ok with that. I'm not trying to say faith has no merit.
OK...From what I have read and heard about Hitler is that he was a mudered. I assume you will agree with me on that.
We also know that Planned Parenthood preforms abortions. I assume you will agree with me on that.
People that are pro-choice are ok with planned parenthood commiting murder. I will assume you will agree with me on that.
I see a direct connection here. I will assume that you do also.
Hitler murdered men, women and children. Planned Parenthood only murders babies, you know the ones that can't defend themselves.
So who is the worse of the two?

Side note... I think my debating skillz are getting better
I will assume you will agree with me on that... or not

Last edited by aber61; February 14th, 2012 at 04:43 PM.
aber61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 14th, 2012, 04:44 PM   #107
dietcoke313
"I was swimming"
 
dietcoke313's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-08-08
Location: allen park mi.
Posts: 304
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aber61 View Post
OK...From what I have read and heard about Hitler is that he was a mudered. I assume you will agree with me on that.
We also know that Planned Parenthood preforms abortions. I assume you will agree with me on that.
People that are pro-choice are ok with planned parenthood commiting murder. I will assume you will agree with me on that.
I see a direct connection here. I will assume that you do also.

Side note... I think my debating skillz are getting better
I will assume you will agree with me on that... or not
The only thing I agree with is that yes hitler was murdered.
dietcoke313 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 14th, 2012, 05:02 PM   #108
aber61
Senior Member
 
aber61's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-22-08
Location: Commerce Twp. Michigan
Posts: 6,126
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dietcoke313 View Post
The only thing I agree with is that yes hitler was murdered.
and planned parenthod is not?
aber61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 14th, 2012, 05:10 PM   #109
ScOoTeR
hoo dat. wat.
 
ScOoTeR's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-09-05
Location: Howell
Posts: 21,579
iTrader: (36)
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aber61 View Post
OK...From what I have read and heard about Hitler is that he was a mudered. I assume you will agree with me on that.
We also know that Planned Parenthood preforms abortions. I assume you will agree with me on that.
People that are pro-choice are ok with planned parenthood commiting murder. I will assume you will agree with me on that.
I see a direct connection here. I will assume that you do also.
Hitler murdered men, women and children. Planned Parenthood only murders babies, you know the ones that can't defend themselves.
So who is the worse of the two?

Side note... I think my debating skillz are getting better
I will assume you will agree with me on that... or not
No direct connection.

Do these Jewish badasses look capable of defending themselves against trained soldiers with firearms?


Pro-choice persons are NOT "ok" with committing murder. This next analogy is a stretch, and highly contrasting for a reason. Persons pro-choice do not usually disagree with "life" starting the first moment the fertilized egg splits; I think many argue that there is no consciousness for the embryo when it is a few cells. At this point, a "child" is not a child yet, it is a tumor, a plant - or any other multi-celled unthinking, unfeeling organism.

You see the immediate state of a fertilized egg as a "soul vessel", and I see it closer to algae.
__________________
@clarkstoncracker
ScOoTeR is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 14th, 2012, 05:22 PM   #110
L4CX
Out for the Summer!
 
L4CX's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-16-07
Location: Hillsdale, MI
Posts: 4,990
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3-foot View Post
Are you all done arguing religion now?

The real story here, in my opinion, is this:

The goal of the Dept of HHS under Mrs Sebelius, and the goal of Obama care, is to get to a single payer (governement) system. The only way to do that is to eliminate other health care providers. Mandating birth control coverage is an easy way to eliminate the Catholic health care providers. Give them a choice, support contriception or drop your coverage and send all those people into the government system.

DHHS knows very well the church will never support giving out birth control with their own funds. The government is forcing their hand hoping to add names to the single payer dole.
And You're not ok with that right?

While I don't think, in any means, insurance is a right; I think this is breach of our Freedom. From what you and Shawn have pointed out. The Government SHOULD NOT be able to tell a insurance provider what they can/cannot provide.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScOoTeR View Post
Whoa whoa whoa.

Back the truck up - mind your manners when addressing folks here like that. No need to break out the juvenile name calling.

What makes Aber61 "a little punk ass bitch" anyway? He never ran away - Scott (L4CX) finally joined the thread to try to help us understand Aber's points. Aber61 isn't the most articulate at getting his post across and L4CX does a good job reading between the lines and explaining it in ways that are less aggressive or one-sided. This isn't "Tag Team Jesus" - these are two guys that found God and try to share their feelings with us, or explain the reasoning behind their religious viewpoints.
Tag Team Jesus.

That could be a bumper sticker. A very in accurate one, theologically speaking, but it could be. Or maybe a song from an 80's Christian Rock band. Power ballad.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dietcoke313 View Post
This is my point. Thank you. aber equates pro-choice people with hitler and thats supose to be ok. I'm not ok with that. I'm not trying to say faith has no merit.
I wouldn't call them Hitler. But I can clearly see his reasoning. I'd more or less call a Pro Choicer the equivalent of Nazi Sympathizers in this parallel. They aren't doing the killing but they aren't doing anything to fight it. It's an injustice to the unborn child.
L4CX is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 14th, 2012, 05:31 PM   #111
L4CX
Out for the Summer!
 
L4CX's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-16-07
Location: Hillsdale, MI
Posts: 4,990
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScOoTeR View Post
No direct connection.

Do these Jewish badasses look capable of defending themselves against trained soldiers with firearms?


Pro-choice persons are NOT "ok" with committing murder. This next analogy is a stretch, and highly contrasting for a reason. Persons pro-choice do not usually disagree with "life" starting the first moment the fertilized egg splits; I think many argue that there is no consciousness for the embryo when it is a few cells. At this point, a "child" is not a child yet, it is a tumor, a plant - or any other multi-celled unthinking, unfeeling organism.

You see the immediate state of a fertilized egg as a "soul vessel", and I see it closer to algae.
This is where I, as a Pro-lifer, would say Consciousness or not, It's still life. .
L4CX is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 14th, 2012, 05:47 PM   #112
aber61
Senior Member
 
aber61's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-22-08
Location: Commerce Twp. Michigan
Posts: 6,126
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScOoTeR View Post
No direct connection.

Do these Jewish badasses look capable of defending themselves against trained soldiers with firearms?


Pro-choice persons are NOT "ok" with committing murder. This next analogy is a stretch, and highly contrasting for a reason. Persons pro-choice do not usually disagree with "life" starting the first moment the fertilized egg splits; I think many argue that there is no consciousness for the embryo when it is a few cells. At this point, a "child" is not a child yet, it is a tumor, a plant - or any other multi-celled unthinking, unfeeling organism.

You see the immediate state of a fertilized egg as a "soul vessel", and I see it closer to algae.
You are correct that pro-choice people are not commiting murder but... It's what they are not saying.
I see it as life from conception. It may not look like life as we see it, but it grows into a recognizable human in only a few weeks.
aber61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 14th, 2012, 06:24 PM   #113
3-foot
Senior Member
 
3-foot's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-21-06
Location: Springfield Township, Mi
Posts: 1,121
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
And You're not ok with that right?
No I am not ok with that.
3-foot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 14th, 2012, 06:27 PM   #114
3-foot
Senior Member
 
3-foot's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-21-06
Location: Springfield Township, Mi
Posts: 1,121
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dietcoke313 View Post
And I thought that I went off the deep end.
I'm sure you will be surprised when it happens to you. Your ignorance of reality is nothing to be proud of.


Quote Barack Obama:

“I happen to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care program. I see no reason why the United States of America, the wealthiest country in the history of the world, spending 14 percent of its Gross National Product on health care cannot provide basic health insurance to everybody. And that’s what Jim is talking about when he says everybody in, nobody out. A single payer health care plan, a universal health care plan. And that’s what I’d like to see. But as all of you know, we may not get there immediately. Because first we have to take back the White House, we have to take back the Senate, and we have to take back the House"

Last edited by 3-foot; February 14th, 2012 at 06:33 PM. Reason: added quote
3-foot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 14th, 2012, 08:01 PM   #115
dietcoke313
"I was swimming"
 
dietcoke313's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-08-08
Location: allen park mi.
Posts: 304
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3-foot View Post
I'm sure you will be surprised when it happens to you. Your ignorance of reality is nothing to be proud of.


Quote Barack Obama:

ďI happen to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care program. I see no reason why the United States of America, the wealthiest country in the history of the world, spending 14 percent of its Gross National Product on health care cannot provide basic health insurance to everybody. And thatís what Jim is talking about when he says everybody in, nobody out. A single payer health care plan, a universal health care plan. And thatís what Iíd like to see. But as all of you know, we may not get there immediately. Because first we have to take back the White House, we have to take back the Senate, and we have to take back the House"
The Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA)[1] is a U.S. Act of Congress passed in 1986 as part of the Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act (COBRA). It requires hospitals to provide care to anyone needing emergency healthcare treatment regardless of citizenship, legal status or ability to pay. There are no reimbursement provisions. Participating hospitals may only transfer or discharge patients needing emergency treatment under their own informed consent, after stabilization, or when their condition requires transfer to a hospital better equipped to administer the treatment. [2]

This is eventually single payer. I do believe in 1986 Ronald Reagon was president.
dietcoke313 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 14th, 2012, 08:09 PM   #116
aber61
Senior Member
 
aber61's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-22-08
Location: Commerce Twp. Michigan
Posts: 6,126
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dietcoke313 View Post
The Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA)[1] is a U.S. Act of Congress passed in 1986 as part of the Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act (COBRA). It requires hospitals to provide care to anyone needing emergency healthcare treatment regardless of citizenship, legal status or ability to pay. There are no reimbursement provisions. Participating hospitals may only transfer or discharge patients needing emergency treatment under their own informed consent, after stabilization, or when their condition requires transfer to a hospital better equipped to administer the treatment. [2]

This is eventually single payer. I do believe in 1986 Ronald Reagon was president.
An emergency is different than forcing everybody to buy his healthcare plan or making it soo expensive for employers that they cancel the health care plans with thier employees. Then people without coverage will be forced to buy into Obamacare.
aber61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 14th, 2012, 08:27 PM   #117
kerryann
German cars are hot
 
kerryann's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: West Bloomfield
Posts: 11,442
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesova View Post
Should your employer be able to pick and choose what medicines/procedures/etc. you can have access to based on their religious or other beliefs?

Discuss.
This was the first post in the thread so I don't get how this whole thread was about the government forcing the catholic church to provide abortions. This is the post I was referring to when I said that employers already customize health coverage for their employees.
kerryann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 14th, 2012, 08:40 PM   #118
dietcoke313
"I was swimming"
 
dietcoke313's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-08-08
Location: allen park mi.
Posts: 304
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aber61 View Post
An emergency is different than forcing everybody to buy his healthcare plan or making it soo expensive for employers that they cancel the health care plans with thier employees. Then people without coverage will be forced to buy into Obamacare.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7995137/.../#.Tzsa4vF5mSM
dietcoke313 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 14th, 2012, 09:44 PM   #119
MonkeyBiz
Master Cocksman
 
MonkeyBiz's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-06-05
Location: Whitehall
Posts: 8,503
iTrader: (10)
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Send a message via Yahoo to MonkeyBiz
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScOoTeR View Post

Pro-choice persons are NOT "ok" with committing murder. This next analogy is a stretch, and highly contrasting for a reason. Persons pro-choice do not usually disagree with "life" starting the first moment the fertilized egg splits; I think many argue that there is no consciousness for the embryo when it is a few cells. At this point, a "child" is not a child yet, it is a tumor, a plant - or any other multi-celled unthinking, unfeeling organism.

You see the immediate state of a fertilized egg as a "soul vessel", and I see it closer to algae.
Curious Scoots... in your opinion, when does life start?

I can't quote a source, but I've heard that there's been research, that shows that there is consciousness in a pre-air breathing birth.
__________________
In bed, according to prophesy.
MonkeyBiz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 14th, 2012, 10:06 PM   #120
Nuggets
I fix stuff!
 
Nuggets's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-15-06
Location: Bay City, MI
Posts: 13,440
iTrader: (13)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Default

Number of threads like this: 18962691

Number of people that changed their mind or ideals because of one of these threads: 0
Nuggets is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:21 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Page generated in 0.51344 seconds with 80 queries