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Old February 2nd, 2012, 07:55 AM   #141
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For starters base tax:
Under Under 70k (married) 15% or $10,500 in taxes
Over 200k (married) 33% taxes or $66,000 in taxes, yeah I know this is still "not their fair share" according to the Dems.

All things being equal the 70k couple should be at $23,100 in taxes or double their current amount, OR the 200k couple should be at $30,000 or half their current rate.
Out of our whole discussion here I think this is the thing that pisses me off the most. People that make more already will pay more because they make more. Increasing the percentage they pay as well is just bullshit.

Based on that whole concept do you blame the so called "rich" people for wanting to fleece the system ever chance they can get? Hell, the government has them bent over the barrel, all they are trying to do is sneak a little vasoline back there in between thrusts.

I think the argument point that Kerry had about government services is very much valid when it comes to the disparity in percentages. While I don't think you can say higher earners uses none of the services that their income tax provides for over those of lower earning potential. I think the real problem is that they use the same as someone making 1/10th of their income. Everyone drives on the same roads, has the same military, etc... If anything the higher income bracket people are less likely to use any of the wide variety of government assistance and social programs they pay into.
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Old February 2nd, 2012, 07:56 AM   #142
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I think I have everything I need to do ours - I'm just a little apprehensive. I'm always amazed at how much I owe, even with the deductions, donations, etc I am able to list.
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Old February 2nd, 2012, 07:59 AM   #143
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Out of our whole discussion here I think this is the thing that pisses me off the most. People that make more already will pay more because they make more. Increasing the percentage they pay as well is just bullshit.

Based on that whole concept do you blame the so called "rich" people for wanting to fleece the system ever chance they can get? Hell, the government has them bent over the barrel, all they are trying to do is sneak a little vasoline back there in between thrusts.

I think the argument point that Kerry had about government services is very much valid when it comes to the disparity in percentages. While I don't think you can say higher earners uses none of the services that their income tax provides for over those of lower earning potential. I think the real problem is that they use the same as someone making 1/10th of their income. Everyone drives on the same roads, has the same military, etc... If anything the higher income bracket people are less likely to use any of the wide variety of government assistance and social programs they pay into.
Exactly, they pay MUCH more of the tax burden, yet use little to none of the benefit of "the system".
I have paid taxes to a level I thought I would never see, yet only collected 3 weeks unemployment in 20 years, never taken any hand out, bail out or any form whatsoever in Gov assistance. I honestly cannot think of a thing the Gov has really given to me.....unless you consider MY tax return a gift....and they are usually much less that one would like.
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Old February 2nd, 2012, 08:00 AM   #144
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Out of our whole discussion here I think this is the thing that pisses me off the most. People that make more already will pay more because they make more. Increasing the percentage they pay as well is just bullshit.
No argument there at all, I don't even make a lot of money comparitively, and I get pissed as hell when I look at how much I had to pay in, then add in property tax, sales tax, etc.

I mean if you make 100k and put 25% in on taxes, then you own a nice house an dpay another 5k+ in property taxes, then you purchase stuff at 6% sales tax, then you pay .$33 a gallon or whatever it is in taxes for gasoline, blah blah blah the more you make clearly the more you will pay in.

BUT, at least we can afford the things we need......

With something like scooter suggested it sure would make me feel like everyone is pulling their own weight a little better as far as the taxes are concerned.
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Old February 2nd, 2012, 08:02 AM   #145
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Kickstand I won't waste the space and quote your entire last post but you're wrong. I DON'T qualify for those deductions. I won't argue with you about it, but I've tried everything including expensive accountants to fill out a fricking EZ form because I don't qualify for anything that you speak of. I am in healthcare. Now let me explain to you how this taxation system has screwed you and the rest of the taxpayers this year...

See my wife and I are both in healthcare. Both work our fair share, not more than most of you I'm sure. However the tax bracket we were in was absolutely screwing us. We started crunching numbers and found that her take home after all said and done for her $80,000/yr job was next to minimumm wage (when I say take home I mean overall take after the impact on our household, taxes, etc). So January first (this year) she retired. 43y/o and retired. Why are we disturbing every evening meal as a family, getting bothered on call each weekend, worrying about everything that comes with a high paying job when we aren't getting compensated for it. Besides I was still the primary income in the home. I also last year opened a small side business. Something to give me a break at tax time. We've been claiming 0 dependents with our employers for 17yrs trying to not pay in. Now my wife will be working with a hospice organization on a contingent basis. She'll be home when the kids get out of school and be there when they leave. Now, the net effect to you? From my household alone there will be close to $100 grand a year coming out of the pot in which we all pull. How many othere households are figuring this out? And thanks for the compliment on the jeep, but I sold it last summer when we decided my wife would retire. Also my tractor, 4-wheelers and hardwood flooring supplies. Now, after all this? Our household "living" income is nearly unchanged. That's just not right. Oh, and I wheel a '79 Chief now, thanks for reminding me how much I miss that CJ
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Old February 2nd, 2012, 08:05 AM   #146
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Seems like having 200k and saying it is "not a lot of money" is pretty ridiculous.
I think the only way that statement could be valid is when referring to where to draw the "wealthy" line and "stick it" to the rich.

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Old February 2nd, 2012, 08:08 AM   #147
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No argument there at all, I don't even make a lot of money comparitively, and I get pissed as hell when I look at how much I had to pay in, then add in property tax, sales tax, etc.

I mean if you make 100k and put 25% in on taxes, then you own a nice house an dpay another 5k+ in property taxes, then you purchase stuff at 6% sales tax, then you pay .$33 a gallon or whatever it is in taxes for gasoline, blah blah blah the more you make clearly the more you will pay in.

BUT, at least we can afford the things we need......

With something like scooter suggested it sure would make me feel like everyone is pulling their own weight a little better as far as the taxes are concerned.
Kickstand, I will guarantee you that if you made 200k you would not only feel the same as you do now (i.e. pissed at how much taxes you pay), but you would be more pissed, because the % you would be paying is higher and uneducated shitheads will constantly say shit to you like, pay your fair share, or pull your own weight!
Again the perspective on this depends on the seat you sit in, but you will find that from about 40k to 300k or more the people feel much the same,yet the lower wage individual tends to point fingers at the one making more, because making more money would make life SOOOOOOO much easier, until you are there.
You paid too much taxes, I know you did, so did I and so did most Americans, the government said put in on the visa card and I will get johnny dumbass to pay more taxes and we will be good to go! So keep trying to "level" the field and government will never stand up and do the right thing by living within their means, which too often the average american cannot do when 40-50%+ of their income goes to one tax or another.
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Old February 2nd, 2012, 08:08 AM   #148
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Oh and kickstand I never once eluded to the fact that I'm struggling to get by. However I sure did during those years of college and those years of putting kids, family on hold while all my friends were starting their "lives". Our newest vehicle is an '04, bought last year. I hunt and fish more than 98% of the people (having sons is a blast) and I am blessed enough to have a buck or two to pay for family functions when they arrise. You just can't get these years back, even with the older kids... take the time to enjoy them.
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Old February 2nd, 2012, 08:10 AM   #149
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Kickstand I won't waste the space and quote your entire last post but you're wrong. I DON'T qualify for those deductions. I won't argue with you about it, but I've tried everything including expensive accountants to fill out a fricking EZ form because I don't qualify for anything that you speak of. I am in healthcare. Now let me explain to you how this taxation system has screwed you and the rest of the taxpayers this year...

See my wife and I are both in healthcare. Both work our fair share, not more than most of you I'm sure. However the tax bracket we were in was absolutely screwing us. We started crunching numbers and found that her take home after all said and done for her $80,000/yr job was next to minimumm wage (when I say take home I mean overall take after the impact on our household, taxes, etc). So January first (this year) she retired. 43y/o and retired. Why are we disturbing every evening meal as a family, getting bothered on call each weekend, worrying about everything that comes with a high paying job when we aren't getting compensated for it. Besides I was still the primary income in the home. I also last year opened a small side business. Something to give me a break at tax time. We've been claiming 0 dependents with our employers for 17yrs trying to not pay in. Now my wife will be working with a hospice organization on a contingent basis. She'll be home when the kids get out of school and be there when they leave. Now, the net effect to you? From my household alone there will be close to $100 grand a year coming out of the pot in which we all pull. How many othere households are figuring this out? And thanks for the compliment on the jeep, but I sold it last summer when we decided my wife would retire. Also my tractor, 4-wheelers and hardwood flooring supplies. Now, after all this? Our household "living" income is nearly unchanged. That's just not right. Oh, and I wheel a '79 Chief now, thanks for reminding me how much I miss that CJ
I am not arguing at all that the system is fucked up. I'm smart enough to be able to figure out how you guys came out ahead, or at least I think I understand the system enough to understand what you guys did.
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Old February 2nd, 2012, 08:14 AM   #150
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Oh and kickstand I never once eluded to the fact that I'm struggling to get by. However I sure did during those years of college and those years of putting kids, family on hold while all my friends were starting their "lives". Our newest vehicle is an '04, bought last year. I hunt and fish more than 98% of the people (having sons is a blast) and I am blessed enough to have a buck or two to pay for family functions when they arrise. You just can't get these years back, even with the older kids... take the time to enjoy them.
I am right there with ya, like I said I don't make a combined household income anywhere near what you and your wife did. But I do pretty good for myself the last couple years. I hope to continue to do better.

I struggled through college, and clawed my way through the last few years (05-09) living check to check. I made a couple unwise purchases, but I also just didn't make very much money.

I have a 6 year old son myself, and we spend 98% of our time fishing, snowboarding, and riding bikes together, indeed you are correct it is a BLAST.
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Old February 2nd, 2012, 08:24 AM   #151
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I hate how everyone seems to want to draw a hard line in the sand in which they feel is where anything more than that is just unnecessary and up for public dispersal at a higher rate.

To me that is just as bad as the whole universal health care capping what doctors can earn in a year. You are slowly chipping away at the single most important thing that gives people the drive to succeed. What becomes the incentive to work harder, take risks, get better education, etc... when you are just going to be whacked down the the same level as your neighbor because he didn't take that initiative and feels you don't need it?
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Old February 2nd, 2012, 08:29 AM   #152
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you are slowly chipping away at the single most important thing that gives people the drive to succeed. What becomes the incentive to work harder, take risks, get better education, etc... When you are just going to be whacked down the the same level as your neighbor because he didn't take that initiative and feels you don't need it?
eeexxxxaaaacccctttttlllllyyyyyyyyyy
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Old February 2nd, 2012, 08:31 AM   #153
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I didn't forget anything, I paid in over $20k in taxes this year, somewhere between a third and a quarter of my income.
If you throw a wife in there at the same, or more, income level and a little bit of a raise you aren't horribly far off of that $200k.

Also I'd imagine if the auto industry keeps going the way it is you will be looking that that $100k salary in no time.
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Old February 2nd, 2012, 08:40 AM   #154
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I don't make 100k a year in my position, but I don't work 80 hour weeks, either. My free time is pretty valuable. When do you DO anything outside of work?
Honestly, she doesn't.

Our week nights often are a big ??? when she will be home because of last minute emergency meetings that run 3 hours over.

While she was arguing this all last night she was probably doing work stuff at home.

She gets calls and emails all weekend when things go to shit.

Her PTO, vacation days, whatever often end up getting cut short or interrupted when the world goes to shit.

Sometimes its like living with a doctor. But the amount she works affords us the life we live.

I'm on the exact opposite of the spectrum. I don't work a ton, I don't make nearly as much, and I'm totally fine with that. To me free time is greater than a pay check.

Going from a salary job to hourly is the greatest thing that has ever happened to me. I know in the professional world there is some sort of stigma with being hourly, but I'm fine with that. When I come in at 6 instead of 8 I get paid for those 2 hours. When I go home at 6 instead of 4 I get paid for those 2 hours. If I stroll in at 10:00 on Monday or bail at noon on a Friday no one gives me the stink eye because I'm on my own time. I don't work 50-60 hours a week for the same price as working 40 and then get a pat on the back at the end of the year as a bonus. Instead I get to see my W2 being 50% larger.
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Old February 2nd, 2012, 09:05 AM   #155
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Also I'd imagine if the auto industry keeps going the way it is you will be looking that that $100k salary in no time.
Not in the desk I'm currently sitting in. But that's a whole 'nother story.
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Old February 2nd, 2012, 09:20 AM   #156
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Honestly, she doesn't.

Our week nights often are a big ??? when she will be home because of last minute emergency meetings that run 3 hours over.

While she was arguing this all last night she was probably doing work stuff at home.

She gets calls and emails all weekend when things go to shit.

Her PTO, vacation days, whatever often end up getting cut short or interrupted when the world goes to shit.

Sometimes its like living with a doctor. But the amount she works affords us the life we live.

I'm on the exact opposite of the spectrum. I don't work a ton, I don't make nearly as much, and I'm totally fine with that. To me free time is greater than a pay check.

Going from a salary job to hourly is the greatest thing that has ever happened to me. I know in the professional world there is some sort of stigma with being hourly, but I'm fine with that. When I come in at 6 instead of 8 I get paid for those 2 hours. When I go home at 6 instead of 4 I get paid for those 2 hours. If I stroll in at 10:00 on Monday or bail at noon on a Friday no one gives me the stink eye because I'm on my own time. I don't work 50-60 hours a week for the same price as working 40 and then get a pat on the back at the end of the year as a bonus. Instead I get to see my W2 being 50% larger.
Her career sounds like a "life sucker". I figure we only have so much time in our life, why spend a majority of it working?
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Old February 2nd, 2012, 09:25 AM   #157
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Don't we all pay enough taxes (except the 50% of you on this board that pay no taxes)?

I don't care if you are the 50% (that pays taxes) or the 5% over 250k or the 1% millionaire, you pay too much fucking taxes to live and die in this country.

Government has spent the last hundred years going from no tax at all to over 50% tax.

At this rate our kids will work all week so they can get a welfare check on Friday.

Someone needs to stop the spending and now.
Amen. Taxes feed the rich politicians and their special interest executives and enslave the working public.
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Old February 2nd, 2012, 09:39 AM   #158
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Her career sounds like a "life sucker". I figure we only have so much time in our life, why spend a majority of it working?
Sadly from everyone I've known that is of that level of importance in a company your job becomes a lot more of your life and the financial rewards usually correlate.

Its probably not as horrible as I just made it out to be, but we have adjusted our lives to accommodate it and it works.
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Old February 2nd, 2012, 09:43 AM   #159
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I have a job where I can work not only in my office. It helps a lot. I do try to enjoy my weekends. Those are the only free time I have when there isn't an emergency. Today for example, I rolled over and flipped off the alarm at 6:02 am. Before I turned on the lights I answered several emails that came in over the night. I got up and got in the shower, thinking about what was due today and what I am working on. I realized that last night right before I went to bed I sent an auditor a list of items he asked for and I was very specific in how I answered, but I didn't include a business explaination of those items. I sent him the business explanation after getting out of the shower. While driving into work, I used Siri to send a few texts, and emails. I also took a phone call from the auditor I emailed earlier to prep him for a meeting he had at 9 am.

I actually do a lot when you think about it.
I try to regularly get to the gym.
I try to keep my house clean.
I try to make all of our meals from scratch using healthy ingredients.
I try to make sure my animals are on whatever routine or maintenance they need.

I see how kickstand read my first remark about the 200k not being a lot of money. I guess I was reading the article and responding to the fact that they want to start the highest level taxes at that rate, and thought those people aren't "rich" and those are probably the ones working their asses off the most. I often times don't sit there and read over and over my posts to figure out how they will be trolled. I read, I post and then I go back to work.

I am thinking of a friend I have who makes over the 200k "rich" limit. He is a finance guy. Some of the "tax loopholes" he uses does create or support jobs through his spending. One "loophole" I thought of, was how he buys a car every year to get the 8k tax deduction. I know he bases his purchase on depreciation, so it's a win for him, but it's also a win for the car dealer, the manufactorer, and probably others I am not thinking of.

I am not anti paying for shared services at a fair rate and I am not anti safety net, but I think it should be fair.
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Old February 2nd, 2012, 09:49 AM   #160
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Her career sounds like a "life sucker". I figure we only have so much time in our life, why spend a majority of it working?
I love my job. I love my employees. I love the fact that everyday I have to research and learn new stuff. There are things I hate about it too, but the good outweighs the bad for me.
I had an opportunity at the end of last year to go work for a big IT company. I would have made my same salary but no opportunity for bonuses. I would have worked 40 hours a week, no overtime. I would have had no employees. I would have done the same task (which is one of the things I do now in my current job) every day. I have friends who think I am crazy for not taking the opportunity, but I was worried I would be bored. I also would have had zero flexibility. If I went to the gym at lunch I had to be back in my hour lunch. I couldn't go to an appointment and then go in to the office afterwards and carry on like a normal day. If i had to go to CVS in the middle of the day to get something I would have to schedule it during my lunch hour. I couldn't work from home.
Everything has a trade off, which is something a lot of people don't realize.
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