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Old February 1st, 2012, 08:33 PM   #101
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3. I don't know enough about our current tax system. I will say this, our government does a good job in taxing businesses, requiring certain manufacturing standards that other countries dont, making it difficult to understand all the laws that pertain to your business, and down right making it difficult to legally and effectively run a small business....consider that a non income tax, tax, that some people have to endure to make "wealthy" status and create jobs for others, so I don't know that "taxes" are truely at a historic low. Did we have the same standards for osha in the 50's? EPA? registration requirements for commercial vehicles? etc.

I use that example because my brother was just pulled over recently to have a DOT inspection on a plow truck, he was 100% within the law, but was pulled over for something that is NOT a law, and the officer, his superior and many others did not know this, it took him 2 days of phone calls to find someone who was able to provide documentation to him that he was within the law.....thats a hefty tax in my eyes.
I'm talking about income tax, not all taxes. People are claiming that higher income taxes will kill jobs, when I has seen no proof of that.

Yes, there are probably far to many regulations on businesses. But if you can claim that the existence of OSHA amount to a tax on business, the it could be claimed that not having OSHA is a tax on lower income people who are more likely to work jobs that lead to injury or death. The same with EPA in other ways.

As for what happened with your brother, that's just incompetence on the part of law enforcement. It has nothing to do with taxes.
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Old February 1st, 2012, 08:37 PM   #102
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More like 30% for me.

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Great point. Even though you don't make 200grand a year, you clearly make too much so regardless of your debt, obligations, etc, etc... You get 'x'. Like that? Me neither. Nothing like knowing that if I NEED help for the first time from the government, I get enough to not even cover my expenses to maintain what I have let alone continue to live. Bullshit. And frankly low900rr, this should piss you off too.

Wow, I'm getting fired up

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Old February 1st, 2012, 08:38 PM   #103
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Don't we all pay enough taxes (except the 50% of you on this board that pay no taxes)?

I don't care if you are the 50% (that pays taxes) or the 5% over 250k or the 1% millionaire, you pay too much fucking taxes to live and die in this country.

Government has spent the last hundred years going from no tax at all to over 50% tax.

At this rate our kids will work all week so they can get a welfare check on Friday.

Someone needs to stop the spending and now.
No. There has always been taxes in this country. For the past 100 years most of the taxation has been through income taxes. And it only took about the first few dozen years for it to get to over 90% and has been mostly dropping for the past 50 or so years.
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Old February 1st, 2012, 08:40 PM   #104
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voting democrat will almost guarantee no one will be rich, if they are it will be very short term as the dems will level the field and play government robin hood.
one of my favorite quotes.


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Old February 1st, 2012, 08:46 PM   #105
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I'm talking about income tax, not all taxes. People are claiming that higher income taxes will kill jobs, when I has seen no proof of that.

Yes, there are probably far to many regulations on businesses. But if you can claim that the existence of OSHA amount to a tax on business, the it could be claimed that not having OSHA is a tax on lower income people who are more likely to work jobs that lead to injury or death. The same with EPA in other ways.

As for what happened with your brother, that's just incompetence on the part of law enforcement. It has nothing to do with taxes.
First paragraph, people say all sorts of shit - and other people love to take one little excerpt and attempt to use it as a singularity. For example: "IF the Lefties hadn't run wild with the uncertainties of ObamaCare, paying off the banks, deflating the dollar, and IF the Lefties get their latest dream of raising taxes so they can spend even yet more, it will kill jobs."

ADHD Media, TaxSpendLiberals ignore the first two thirds of the sentence, and concentrate on the last part.

Middle paragraph too succinctly dismisses the impact of regulatory controls, impact fees, permits, inspections and such on business and/or entrepreneurs, and/or are passed on to consumers of goods and services. They are in fact a tax.

Last paragraph, too succinctly dismisses the fact that all of those regulations have an impact - that the beuracrats also are "incompetent" since so many of the regulations either conflict with other parts of themselves, or with other laws that are also on the books. Tax revenues are low, so let's raise impact fees, let's reinterpret such and such law and create a new administrative rule (which has the effect of law until successfully overturned)
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Old February 1st, 2012, 08:52 PM   #106
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Great point. Even though you don't make 200grand a year, you clearly make too much so regardless of your debt, obligations, etc, etc... You get 'x'. Like that? Me neither. Nothing like knowing that if I NEED help for the first time from the government, I get enough to not even cover my expenses to maintain what I have let alone continue to live. Bullshit. And frankly low900rr, this should piss you off too.

Wow, I'm getting fired up

I definetely dont make too much. Try and save alittle for winter. Scrape through. Get back to work. First few months to get leveled out the last few months to try and save alittle. Repeat. Week to week I dont consider "making too much". Family of 5 to take care of.

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Old February 1st, 2012, 09:02 PM   #107
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No. There has always been taxes in this country. For the past 100 years most of the taxation has been through income taxes. And it only took about the first few dozen years for it to get to over 90% and has been mostly dropping for the past 50 or so years.
I can never tell if you mean the shit you write or if you're just trying to ruffle feathers.

As far as KA saying 200k a year for two people isn't a lot of money is fucking absurd. Now ka, I'm only going off of what was quoted because you are on my ignore list because I find you cunty, so if I get something wrong, I apologize.

I don't care how big your student loans are, I know if I banked over double what I do now, life would be much simpler. Being able to keep 2 residences, feed and cloth 3 people other than myself, own and maintain 2 cars made within the last decade on just what I make...

Seriously, how much food are you stuffing down your throat or shit up nose are you consuming. 200k isn't a lot of money...

I bet you spent over a k on a shitty little dog that never quits barking.

Now don't get me wrong, I think its fantastic you two can make that kind of money. I also think you should spend as much or as little of it as you want. Don't try to pretend like life is almost rough for you.
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Old February 1st, 2012, 09:02 PM   #108
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In what way does the extremely inefficient forms of Government in this Country "alleviate suffering" ? Through the indignity of being on the public dole? By handing out free cheese? By having social workers invade your home and tell you what your kids can and can not eat? By leaving the borders open? By killing 50 million pre-born babies since 1970ish, yet keeping convicted murders alive for decades because the death penalty is cruel? by forcing everyone into yet another socialized utopian view of healthcare? do you really want to wait for treatments you can afford, or worse have the Government tell you what you can eat, what you can't, and what BMI you should be at?
It doesn't. But you in no way answered my question. I've been to places where people were dying in the streets. I don't want to see it happening here. Do you?


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Europe's middle class has been under siege, and shrinking since 2000. Germany, arguably one of the strongest economies in Europe has seen a tic reduction in middle class demographics, and a surge in numbers below 70% of the median income every year since 2000 (according to the German Institute for Economic Research (DIW))
OK. How much disparity in wealth and income do you think Europe can handle before it slides into 3rd world status?

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Fiscal Conservative does not have to imply that taxes should be lower than they currently are, or held at historical lows - spending your great grandparent's futures has got to stop, regardless of your political party, or ideology.

And of course, my statements above are intended to be somewhat lopsided - to counter your one-sided, singular issue presentation of the issues.
I'm more worried about spending our great grandchildren's futures. Our great grandparents understood that if they wanted to fight wars or depressions that they should raise taxes on themselves to pay for it rather than sending the bill to future generations.
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Old February 1st, 2012, 09:07 PM   #109
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Flat tax please so i can quit complaining!
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Old February 1st, 2012, 09:17 PM   #110
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First paragraph, people say all sorts of shit - and other people love to take one little excerpt and attempt to use it as a singularity. For example: "IF the Lefties hadn't run wild with the uncertainties of ObamaCare, paying off the banks, deflating the dollar, and IF the Lefties get their latest dream of raising taxes so they can spend even yet more, it will kill jobs."

ADHD Media, TaxSpendLiberals ignore the first two thirds of the sentence, and concentrate on the last part.

Middle paragraph too succinctly dismisses the impact of regulatory controls, impact fees, permits, inspections and such on business and/or entrepreneurs, and/or are passed on to consumers of goods and services. They are in fact a tax.

Last paragraph, too succinctly dismisses the fact that all of those regulations have an impact - that the beuracrats also are "incompetent" since so many of the regulations either conflict with other parts of themselves, or with other laws that are also on the books. Tax revenues are low, so let's raise impact fees, let's reinterpret such and such law and create a new administrative rule (which has the effect of law until successfully overturned)
Probably all true.

I guess I'm just not smart enough to deal with the enormity of life, politics, business, taxes, the universe and everything all at once, so I was trying to focus on individual issues one at a time. If you can deal with every issue all at once go for it, I'll just watch.

And all 3 of your paragraphs too succinctly dismisses the fact that the right is as guilty of doing these things as the left.
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Old February 1st, 2012, 09:18 PM   #111
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I can never tell if you mean the shit you write or if you're just trying to ruffle feathers.

As far as KA saying 200k a year for two people isn't a lot of money is fucking absurd. Now ka, I'm only going off of what was quoted because you are on my ignore list because I find you cunty, so if I get something wrong, I apologize.

I don't care how big your student loans are, I know if I banked over double what I do now, life would be much simpler. Being able to keep 2 residences, feed and cloth 3 people other than myself, own and maintain 2 cars made within the last decade on just what I make...

Seriously, how much food are you stuffing down your throat or shit up nose are you consuming. 200k isn't a lot of money...

I bet you spent over a k on a shitty little dog that never quits barking.

Now don't get me wrong, I think its fantastic you two can make that kind of money. I also think you should spend as much or as little of it as you want. Don't try to pretend like life is almost rough for you.
He can't see me anyway.. because apparently he puts everyone ignore he doesn't like.. People who can't argue and not take things personally should stay off the internet or else their feelings will be hurt a lot.

I don't and didn't mean to say it's not a lot of money. I mean to say it's not rich. We don't make that but I hope to in the near future by continuing to work hard and getting promoted each year. I don't want to not have the motivation to succeed because I know that if I make more that eventually I will pay 40% in taxes. Why will people strive to achieve if they will just end up paying more into the government if they do? Why should I work 80+ hour weeks if I wont see more in my paycheck? If my feeling like that is true makes me snobby or cunty then I am fine with that label.
Where did anyone say I can't live on what I make? I believe I said that no matter how much money you make you can spend it and some do. I don't because I like to feel secure.
Also why does he care what I spend on anything since I earn my money and don't ask for donations to cover it.
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Old February 1st, 2012, 09:19 PM   #112
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I can never tell if you mean the shit you write or if you're just trying to ruffle feathers.
Which part of that quote do you disagree with? I'll offer proof.
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Old February 1st, 2012, 09:48 PM   #113
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Takes me 4 years to make 200k. Seasonal work blows.

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Do what I told you to in pm's and you can make that in a year. Its hard shitty work but it pays well.


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Which part of that quote do you disagree with? I'll offer proof.
post it up you bitch.
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Old February 1st, 2012, 10:19 PM   #114
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post it up you bitch.
Brief description of taxes throughout our history: http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0005921.html

Yes, taxes were much less then than now, because there were much less things for the government to do. But taxes were never 0.

link showing that income taxes quickly rose high, then slowly even higher, and then fell tically, and have bounced up and down some since.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfa....cfm?Docid=213
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Old February 1st, 2012, 10:22 PM   #115
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Which part of that quote do you disagree with? I'll offer proof.
Income tax was introduced to help support WWII. Less than 100 years ago. It was kept after the war because the country was fiscally drained. However the population had taken such a hit there was an incentive to have 4 kids to be able to pay no income tax. It was ment to go away after 8 (I think) years, but since when has the government been in the business of giving something back to the people it took it from?

Present day, income tax is at record lows because the of taxes collected, not tax percentages. Not to mention the fact that income tax these days does nothing more than cover the interest of the money borrowed from the federal reserve, a private bank.

Now to answer one of your earlier questions. I am all about getting rid of MOST social programs. We have bred over the last 40 years a population that looks towards the government to take care of them, not themselves. The proof of need has to be required. I don't care if it is more expensive up front, it has to be done. I don't care how many kids go hungry because mommy and/or daddy go hungry because they refuse to get their shit together because their children will more than likely grow up with the same attitude.
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Old February 1st, 2012, 10:33 PM   #116
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Income tax was introduced to help support WWII. Less than 100 years ago. It was kept after the war because the country was fiscally drained. However the population had taken such a hit there was an incentive to have 4 kids to be able to pay no income tax. It was ment to go away after 8 (I think) years, but since when has the government been in the business of giving something back to the people it took it from?

Present day, income tax is at record lows because the of taxes collected, not tax percentages. Not to mention the fact that income tax these days does nothing more than cover the interest of the money borrowed from the federal reserve, a private bank.

Now to answer one of your earlier questions. I am all about getting rid of MOST social programs. We have bred over the last 40 years a population that looks towards the government to take care of them, not themselves. The proof of need has to be required. I don't care if it is more expensive up front, it has to be done. I don't care how many kids go hungry because mommy and/or daddy go hungry because they refuse to get their shit together because their children will more than likely grow up with the same attitude.
It was started in 1913. Way before WWII. So you're right, it wasn't 100 years ago, it was only 99 years ago.
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Old February 1st, 2012, 10:40 PM   #117
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It was started in 1913. Way before WWII. So you're right, it wasn't 100 years ago, it was only 99 years ago.
Ok, I mixed up which war it was created to fund.

Now taxes collected. You only notice that you're paying less in tax today than somebody who did 50 years ago if you either are an expert at tax codes and know the loop holes, or you are unemployed.

The issues I have with tax collection is knowing a multi billion dollar company such as GE pays zero. Raising the tax rates is not the issue, its closing the loopholes.

This and outlawing lobbying. Those 2 things would do great things for our nation.
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Old February 1st, 2012, 10:54 PM   #118
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Ok, I mixed up which war it was created to fund.

Now taxes collected. You only notice that you're paying less in tax today than somebody who did 50 years ago if you either are an expert at tax codes and know the loop holes, or you are unemployed.

The issues I have with tax collection is knowing a multi billion dollar company such as GE pays zero. Raising the tax rates is not the issue, its closing the loopholes.

This and outlawing lobbying. Those 2 things would do great things for our nation.
You still fail. The income tax started in 1913, WW1 started in 1914, and we didn't get actively involved until 1917.

And a person 50 years ago paid more than a person today because someone 50 years ago was paying from 20 to 91%, while someone today is paying from 10-35%.

source

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Old February 1st, 2012, 10:59 PM   #119
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He can't see me anyway.. because apparently he puts everyone ignore he doesn't like.. People who can't argue and not take things personally should stay off the internet or else their feelings will be hurt a lot.

I don't and didn't mean to say it's not a lot of money. I mean to say it's not rich. We don't make that but I hope to in the near future by continuing to work hard and getting promoted each year. I don't want to not have the motivation to succeed because I know that if I make more that eventually I will pay 40% in taxes. Why will people strive to achieve if they will just end up paying more into the government if they do? Why should I work 80+ hour weeks if I wont see more in my paycheck? If my feeling like that is true makes me snobby or cunty then I am fine with that label.
Where did anyone say I can't live on what I make? I believe I said that no matter how much money you make you can spend it and some do. I don't because I like to feel secure.
Also why does he care what I spend on anything since I earn my money and don't ask for donations to cover it.
I don't make 100k a year in my position, but I don't work 80 hour weeks, either. My free time is pretty valuable. When do you DO anything outside of work?
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Old February 1st, 2012, 11:21 PM   #120
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x2 and you have to remember that 200k is a married couple because our incomes get combined. It really isnt so much when you think about two working professionals. I'd like a tax reduction since I use less services than others.
200k is a lot, but I understand what you're saying. It's not a stretch to say that a hardworking professional might be able to make 100k a year. Put 2 together in marriage and you have 200k.

I'm not sure how you can figure how much government services you use compared to others. If you drive on road, listen to radio, watch TV, travel by air, etc. you use services. And much of the federal government "services" like defense and countless federal agencies provide a general service for everyone.
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