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Old January 25th, 2012, 07:31 PM   #21
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I'm sure you could connect enough dots to get from one to the other.
To say that the "auto industry" was in such rough shape because of "corrupt banks giving loans to people that couldn't afford them" is quite the stretch

Especially when it comes to Chrysler and GM
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Old January 25th, 2012, 07:37 PM   #22
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I don't understand what you think Obama did that is so wrong. He took over a country that was in schambles. He loaned the auto companies money to get them going.
The reason the auto industry was in such trouble was due to the corrupt banks giving loans to people that couldn't afford them. Of course unemployment was going to go up. That's part of what happens when the former president gives tax incentives to company to send Jobs overseas. Jobs here are lost!
And as far as the pipeline goes there is no way in hell I'd want a new pipe line going thru my yard. I sold my last house due to it having a pipeline on the property. Send it by rail. The rails are already in place won't disturb life and is the Safest way to transport goods.
This is quit possibly the funniest most ridiculous post that I have ever read on this board. Don't tell me.........your in a union.......

Last edited by pizzaman; January 25th, 2012 at 07:49 PM.
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Old January 25th, 2012, 07:45 PM   #23
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The guy behind the camera has a head set on and he takes ques from the producer(the liberal guy) about what shot to take and where he wants him to point the camera and where not to point the camera.
I have experience in the film industry, cameras and lighting. If you are operating a camera you take orders from the guy speaking into your headset.
Yes, of course. But who is ultimately calling the shots? Someone in the media? Or someone in government?
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Old January 25th, 2012, 08:04 PM   #24
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The reason the auto industry was in such trouble was due to the corrupt banks giving loans to people that couldn't afford them.
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Old January 25th, 2012, 08:11 PM   #25
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Old January 25th, 2012, 09:19 PM   #26
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Yes, of course. But who is ultimately calling the shots? Someone in the media? Or someone in government?
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Old January 26th, 2012, 08:39 AM   #27
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If you like big government, record government debt, driving electric vehicles, living in cities, taking from the rich (you and me) and giving to the poor, fluid borders, socialism, record high gas prices, tax increases labeled as a job's bill, weak military, taxing those that risk their money by investing it, pay for your worthless neighbors health care, no foreign policy, no energy policy, etc. I guess you will be voting for Obama.

Obama is a Liberal Extremest and I pray he does not get re-elected.

BTW, I have two high pressure gas lines on my property. I of coarse was well aware of them before I bought the land. Why would a person buy land then sell it because it had a pipeline on it? We have pipelines all over the country, one more won't make a hill of beans difference to the environment.

Several years ago I took my two children and waited several hours in scorching heat to see Clinton when he visited Monroe. Not that I was a fan of Clinton's. I wouldn't walk across the street to see Obama.
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Old January 26th, 2012, 08:58 AM   #28
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I'm sure you could connect enough dots to get from one to the other.
I can connect enough dots to show just about anything was the cause of the US auto manufacturers' fall from "power" - but none involves the abuse of mortgage-backed securities.
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Old January 26th, 2012, 09:03 AM   #29
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Yes, of course. But who is ultimately calling the shots? Someone in the media? Or someone in government?
well since you are not arguing the point that when the dems have a president in office the media only shows the happy people in support, and when the reps are in office the media only shows the unhappy people who are not in support, I'd like to think you are smart enough to determine this on your own.
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Old January 26th, 2012, 10:57 AM   #30
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The stimulus package was almost a trillion dollars and was suppose to get this country back on track, didn't work. Unemployment rose to almost 10% from 7%.
"Supposed to get this country back on track"? I'm not sure anyone was claiming or expecting that. But you can't deny that it helped. Take a look at the non-partisan group Politifact's analysis of the impact.

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So Obama has cherry-picked the highest number of the most favorable estimates. For him to be right about 2 million jobs having been created or saved would mean using the highest end of the administration's own range, or the highest end of the CBO's range. Indeed, leaving the CEA's analysis out of it and looking only at the independent estimates, you get an average of 1.38 million jobs created or saved, which is about 30 percent lower than the president's 2 million-job-benchmark.

However, if you fast-forward the employment estimates by one quarter -- to the first quarter of 2010 -- the numbers creep closer to what Obama and other Democrats are suggesting. Using updated estimates provided to PolitiFact, IHS/Global Insight estimates that 1.7 million jobs will be created or saved during the first quarter of 2010. And Moody's economy.com estimated that 1.9 million jobs will be created or saved by that quarter.

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High speed rail, where woiuld the money come from? A country almost on the verge of being bankrupt?
I agree that the government needs to cut spending. I will point out, however, that the cost of the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan etc, is expected to approach $4 trillion. Obama's high-speed rail plan was for $53 billion over 6 years. So a drop in the bucket, and certainly of more benefit to the American people than the wars (which benefit only the war profiteers - defense contractors, etc).

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Jobs bill, was that government jobs? Which would mean higher taxes to cover the newly expansion of only a ever growing government?
...are you familiar with Obama's "Jobs Bill"? It had almost -nothing- to do with creating more government jobs. MOST of the bill had to do with tax cuts - extending the payroll tax cuts, tax credits for hiring unemployed persons, low income hiring incentives, and so on. The rest was mostly aid to states (funding for teachers, firefighters and police officers, funding to modernize schools and rehabilitate vacant/foreclosed homes, and funding for low-income workers) and various infrastructure improvements (still not nearly enough to cover the estimated $2 trillion infrastructure gap in the US). So unless you consider paying teachers an "expansion of an ever growing government," you're wrong. (Sources: 1 and 2).

I'm not a fan of Obama, but I certainly don't think our country would be any better off under Romney or Gingrich.
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Old January 26th, 2012, 01:36 PM   #31
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"Supposed to get this country back on track"? I'm not sure anyone was claiming or expecting that. But you can't deny that it helped. Take a look at the non-partisan group Politifact's analysis of the impact.


I have always wondered when this administration coined the term,"create or saved jobs". I can see creating jobs or allowing the private sector to do that but saving jobs! Maybe you can fill me in on how that can be done?
We created or saved over 2 million jobs. Sounds awfully fishy to me. You cannot take credit for jobs you think you might or might not save.
Pull the wool over Americans eyes.



I agree that the government needs to cut spending. I will point out, however, that the cost of the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan etc, is expected to approach $4 trillion. Obama's high-speed rail plan was for $53 billion over 6 years. So a drop in the bucket, and certainly of more benefit to the American people than the wars (which benefit only the war profiteers - defense contractors, etc).

Do you realize thatthis president has spent more than ALL president combined fro Wasington to Bush.



...are you familiar with Obama's "Jobs Bill"? It had almost -nothing- to do with creating more government jobs. MOST of the bill had to do with tax cuts - extending the payroll tax cuts, tax credits for hiring unemployed persons, low income hiring incentives, and so on. The rest was mostly aid to states (funding for teachers, firefighters and police officers, funding to modernize schools and rehabilitate vacant/foreclosed homes, and funding for low-income workers) and various infrastructure improvements (still not nearly enough to cover the estimated $2 trillion infrastructure gap in the US). So unless you consider paying teachers an "expansion of an ever growing government," you're wrong. (Sources: 1 and 2).

I'm not a fan of Obama, but I certainly don't think our country would be any better off under Romney or Gingrich.
His jobs bill was to hire governemt employees only to increase the size of government more. During this down turned economy the only growthhas been in government.
As for education the government should subthat out to the private sector. Pretty much everything the government gets its hands on it is over budget and gets screwed up at the cost to tax payers.
Bigger and more government is not the answer.
Anybody could do a better job that Obama even Palin.
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Old January 26th, 2012, 02:19 PM   #32
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http://cnsnews.com/news/article/rep-...stone-pipeline

Obama has known of the pipeline oil deal for along time.
He has no interest in this economy getting better.
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Old January 26th, 2012, 02:27 PM   #33
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This is quit possibly the funniest most ridiculous post that I have ever read on this board. Don't tell me.........your in a union.......
No I'm not union. I drive a truck. Obama is steveo's daddy!
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Old January 26th, 2012, 02:29 PM   #34
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http://cnsnews.com/news/article/rep-...stone-pipeline

Obama has known of the pipeline oil deal for along time.
He has no interest in this economy getting better.
I bet you listen to late night radio talk shows! Let me guess your a Newt guy? Or better yet a Mitt man? Because they Are clearly so much better than Obama.
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Old January 26th, 2012, 02:31 PM   #35
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I can connect enough dots to show just about anything was the cause of the US auto manufacturers' fall from "power" - but none involves the abuse of mortgage-backed securities.
Are you sure you can connect the dots? I bet you have trouble counting to ten without your fingers!
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Old January 26th, 2012, 02:44 PM   #36
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I bet you listen to late night radio talk shows! Let me guess your a Newt guy? Or better yet a Mitt man? Because they Are clearly so much better than Obama.
Sorry I am sleeping when late night talk radio is on. Newt' ok but I don't think he will be able to keep it up to the end. Something will come up that will bring his ratings down. He has been too much of a roller coaster since he got into this.
Santorum would be my guy. As for Mitt, not really but he has been the most consistant in the polls.
Obama has a problem telling the truth the American people.
He has spent more than all presidents combined. When he took office we had a debt of 9 trillion dollars and now we have debt of 16.4 trillion.
Obama will go down in history as the worst president, even worse than Carter.
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Old January 26th, 2012, 02:48 PM   #37
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Are you sure you can connect the dots? I bet you have trouble counting to ten without your fingers!
I have done something you did not. I follow scooters posts and I may not agree with some of what he posts but I know one thing for sure. He could think circles around you with his eyes closed.
I figured that out by looking at your posts.
You are just a liberal following liberal ideas(blindly)kthaks have a good day.
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Old January 26th, 2012, 02:48 PM   #38
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I have always wondered when this administration coined the term,"create or saved jobs". I can see creating jobs or allowing the private sector to do that but saving jobs! Maybe you can fill me in on how that can be done?
We created or saved over 2 million jobs. Sounds awfully fishy to me. You cannot take credit for jobs you think you might or might not save.
Pull the wool over Americans eyes.
It's pretty simple really... Straight from the Politico article I linked, "To count the jobs created by the stimulus, they essentially have been comparing two numbers: the actual employment statistics from the federal government, and an estimate of what those employment numbers would have been had there been no stimulus. The gap between these two figures represents the number of jobs created or saved by the stimulus."

So if the number of people currently employed today is 1.5 million more than what economists estimate the number would have been if not for the stimulus, that means the 1.5 million jobs were either "created" (adding to the current employment statistic), or not lost ("saved", because they would have otherwise been a part of the lower 'non-stimulus' employment estimate).

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His jobs bill was to hire governemt employees only to increase the size of government more. During this down turned economy the only growthhas been in government.
Care to provide a source for that? Because the two articles I linked spell out his jobs bill pretty clearly, and I don't see anything in there about hiring government employees. Also, that's not true that the government has been the only place of growth in this economy. Here's an article citing 12 industries that grew in 2011: http://www.theatlantic.com/business/.../70641/#slide1

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As for education the government should subthat out to the private sector. Pretty much everything the government gets its hands on it is over budget and gets screwed up at the cost to tax payers.
Bigger and more government is not the answer.
Anybody could do a better job that Obama even Palin.
I completely agree that the federal government should get 'out' of education. Look at private charter schools... they typically vastly outperform neighboring public schools, even when adjusted for outside variables. BUT, as it stands, we have an education system mired in bureaucracy thanks to the DOE, and Obama's jobs bill was about directly funding teachers and schools, not expanding the DOE. Until we can improve the system, we should at least make sure the current one doesn't implode. It may not be perfect, but a DOE-funded school is better than no school...

And, sorry, but Palin is a flippin' idiot.

Last edited by Kevlar; January 26th, 2012 at 02:52 PM.
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Old January 26th, 2012, 02:56 PM   #39
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It's pretty simple really... Straight from the Politico article I linked, "To count the jobs created by the stimulus, they essentially have been comparing two numbers: the actual employment statistics from the federal government, and an estimate of what those employment numbers would have been had there been no stimulus. The gap between these two figures represents the number of jobs created or saved by the stimulus."

So if the number of people currently employed today is 1.5 million more than what economists estimate the number would have been if not for the stimulus, that means the 1.5 million jobs were either "created" (adding to the current employment statistic), or not lost ("saved", because they would have otherwise been a part of the lower 'non-stimulus' employment estimate).



Care to provide a source for that? Because the two articles I linked spell out his jobs bill pretty clearly, and I don't see anything in there about hiring government employees. Also, that's not true that the government has been the only place of growth in this economy. Here's an article citing 12 industries that grew in 2011: http://www.theatlantic.com/business/.../70641/#slide1



I completely agree that the federal government should get 'out' of education. Look at private charter schools... they typically vastly outperform neighboring public schools, even when adjusted for outside variables. BUT, as it stands, we have an education system mired in bureaucracy thanks to the DOE, and Obama's jobs bill was about directly funding teachers and schools, not expanding the DOE. Until we can improve the system, we should at least make sure the current one doesn't implode. It may not be perfect, but a DOE-funded school is better than no school...

And, sorry, but Palin is a flippin' idiot.
If Palin is an idiot then what is Obama?
Besides Palin did not put the state of alaska in a position that Obama has done to this country. Obama is reckless in his spending of tax payer money.

The stimulus money used was given to companies that went bankrupt, how was that saving jobs and stimulating the economy.

http://blog.heritage.org/2012/01/26/...or-bankruptcy/

Last edited by aber61; January 26th, 2012 at 03:07 PM.
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Old January 26th, 2012, 03:13 PM   #40
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He has spent more than all presidents combined. When he took office we had a debt of 9 trillion dollars and now we have debt of 16.4 trillion.
Wait.. what? Please tell me you aren't inferring the former from the latter. You do understand how deficits work, right?

First of all, the current debt is close to $15.3 trillion, not $16.4 (see: http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/ and http://www.usdebtclock.org/). Second, the debt when Obama took office was $10.63 trillion, not $9 (see: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_1...04-503544.html). HOWEVER, the FY2009 budget was Bush's budget, so you can't pin the debt increase in '09 to Obama. In FY10 and FY11 (budgets Obama was responsible for), we ran a $1.29 and $1.65 trillion deficit (see: http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfa....cfm?Docid=200). So he's increased the debt $2.94 trillion.

Now that I've straightened that out... did you say he's SPENT more than all presidents COMBINED?!? BWAHAHA. Ok, you must be forgetting the fact that the US Government takes in over $2 trillion in taxes a year. Looking at '10 and '11, the total federal outlays were a combined $6.97 trillion. That's how much we've "spent." In the last two years of the Bush budgets ('08 and '09), total federal outlays were $6.5 trillion. So, on average, we spent an extra $235 billion a year under Obama vs the last two years of Bush.

Now, don't get me wrong. Federal spending is a HUGE HUGE issue. I'm a libertarian-leaning moderate - I'm not discounting that at all. The way that the federal budget is ballooning disgusts me. I'm also not a fan of Obama. HOWEVER, I'm even less of a fan of misinformation. Obama sucks, but so does the whole federal government, and so did Bush.
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