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Old December 21st, 2011, 10:47 AM   #21
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The one that wouldn't have happened if it had been an American company working on American land?
You seriously believe that?
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Old December 21st, 2011, 10:47 AM   #22
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To me the Volt is a step in the direction we need to be heading. Its not the answer. But how often is the first of anything ever the final solution?
Its the second I believe. The first wasn't apparently a good idea.
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Old December 21st, 2011, 10:50 AM   #23
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Its the second I believe. The first wasn't apparently a good idea.
Actually I recant my previous statement.

My PC just locked up. We should have stuck with Windows 3.1
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Old December 21st, 2011, 10:53 AM   #24
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Not that it makes this okay, but lets not pretend corporate welfare is limited to the auto industry.

In the realm of government spending waste, development of new some automotive technologies should hardly make the list. The gasoline powered diesel engine sounds cool.


Here's some other stuff your tax dollars went to that should make you wonder: http://www.coburn.senate.gov/public/...763532b40.html
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Old December 21st, 2011, 10:57 AM   #25
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You seriously believe that?
Yes. Although accidents do happen in the oil industry, there aren't as many as in the battery development world. Except those aren't accidents, they are oversights and lack of givafuck.
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Old December 21st, 2011, 10:58 AM   #26
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The one that wouldn't have happened if it had been an American company working on American land?
yeah, because it would have languished for 20 years under lawsuits without drilling.

Saying we want 1991 trucks is stupid. The rules are different. Those trucks are illegal to build/sell today.

I guess people think there haven't been any tax dollars put any other vehicles out there. All those plants paid all their tax dollars.

I guess people don't think that every government with a manufacturing base puts money into technologies it wants to develop.


Typical person around here says out the left corner of their mouth:

Its not fair, we can't compete with the Chinese, because their government is bankrolling those companies.
Then out the right corner of their mouth, they say:

Its BS, our government is spending my tax dollars on private industry.
What exactly do you people want? The facts are that governments all over the world invest in technologies they have decided that they have an interest in. Solar, Ethanol, Hybrids, etc. R&D does not exist in the united states like it did years ago. How do we stay a global power in the world when we don't invest in education, don't invest in technology, continually lose manufacturing base?
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Old December 21st, 2011, 10:58 AM   #27
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Yes. Although accidents do happen in the oil industry, there aren't as many as in the battery development world. Except those aren't accidents, they are oversights and lack of givafuck.
good thing every we have oil field workers here in the good ol USA that always give lots of fucks. like Steveo.
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Old December 21st, 2011, 11:00 AM   #28
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The Cruze Eco is a great car we have sold a ton of them. Spending money on vehicles like this way better in my opinion. Here is car capable of over 40 mpg's with an MSRP of around $20,000 depending on exact equipment, so your average consumer can actually afford this car not limited to people with a household income of $170,000 who have a volt in one side of the garage and an H2 in the other.


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So why did they quit with the last electric car. If this was for the greater good you'd like they would have contiuned . . . hmmm...

Oh yeah, Cruz eco gets almost the same milage for half the price. Why are we producing volts again?

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...omparison-test
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Old December 21st, 2011, 11:02 AM   #29
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The Cruze Eco is a great car we have sold a ton of them. Spending money on vehicles like this way better in my opinion. Here is car capable of over 40 mpg's with an MSRP of around $20,000 depending on exact equipment, so your average consumer can actually afford this car not limited to people with a household income of $170,000 who have a volt in one side of the garage and an H2 in the other.
Thats why they designed that car, for the average consumer.

The volt, is NOT designed for the average consumer.
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Old December 21st, 2011, 11:05 AM   #30
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You believe that Steve lays down shitty welds and doesn't care if they hold?
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Old December 21st, 2011, 11:07 AM   #31
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I haven't seen any non-average customers racing in to buy one from me. but gm requires me to inventory these even though they are not intended for my demographic
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Old December 21st, 2011, 11:09 AM   #32
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Even the people that can afford it that I have talked to look at the price and say no thank you
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Old December 21st, 2011, 11:17 AM   #33
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They're banking on the idea that the technology will continue to develop and soon become the standard, what is the average consumers vehicle. New technology usually isn't viewed as practical or affordable.

Example: I've owned a VCR, but not when they were first introduced and cost over $1000 (mostly because I wasn't alive then).
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Old December 21st, 2011, 11:20 AM   #34
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I haven't seen any non-average customers racing in to buy one from me. but gm requires me to inventory these even though they are not intended for my demographic
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Even the people that can afford it that I have talked to look at the price and say no thank you
I'm sure they targeted rural northern michigan when they designed it.
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Old December 21st, 2011, 11:25 AM   #35
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I'm sure they targeted rural northern michigan when they designed it.
x2. People who have to drive 51 miles to get to "town" are the people that normally purchase volts and leafs
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Old December 21st, 2011, 11:32 AM   #36
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Not true at all, we want the 22mpg 6000# 4x4 one ton trucks that we had in 1991.)
So, you want 190hp again?


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How about factory port and polish head jobs on all factory engines? That would put thousands of people to work in a skilled trade, and create better efficiency.
Do you understand the flow numbers and compression ratios that are run in modern engines? Have you seen how an L92/LS3 or Coyote 5.0 head compares even to aftermarket 350 and 302 heads?

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Also, we have no idea if oil is a finite resource. .

You have your head in the sand. Unfortunately, not oil sands.


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We do know that most existing trucks will run on natural gas if needed, and the practices used to create a more efficient diesel or gas engine are directly correlated to natural gas
..
Really, you just put it in the tank and off you go? Or, do you mean that it can work after billions of dollars in retrofits to make lower horsepower motors that are less convenient to fill up?

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Like electricity, many homes already have natural gas running to their homes. A charging station in your driveway would make the "hard to find" CNG not much of a problem anymore, at least for short trips like to work and back. This is one of the Volt's selling features. (Charging at home for short trips) A CNG truck could also be run on gasoline or diesel should you be out of range of your home fill station (same as the Volt).
Sure, sounds inexpensive and safe, and shouldn't tax the existing infrastructure at all.



Bottom line:

People hate politicians, and usually shortly behind them, they hate engineers. Sorry, there aren't grand conspiracies or whatever.

The average person doesn't have a clue the constraints that cars must be designed to. The average person also has trouble understanding the complete market demographic.

People love to say: why doesn't somebody do __________. Really, they are saying: I would like this, but I am to dumb to actually do it myself, and I realize noone else has done it, but since I want it, it must be doable and an awesome idea somehow overlooked by everyone else.

Fact is, 99.9% of the time, if it hasn't been done, theres a reason why it isn't.


If anyone could make a 3/4ton diesel with 350hp and 25hwy mpg right now, they would be selling them hand over fist.


LOL, I think Kelly brings this topic up evry couple months just to stir the pot.
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Old December 21st, 2011, 11:47 AM   #37
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I just get a kick out of these articles how business writers seem to know how every dollar is spent at a company they don't work for.
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Old December 21st, 2011, 12:03 PM   #38
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Beyond that, how is it different from just about anything else they do. Its simply raising stories because somebody disagrees with the govt (ooo, big shock), so writes an article. And then people agree with it, because it supports what they want to believe in. Basic human psychology, that we will much easier believe a story is true if it supports our position, and will be much more skeptical if it doesn't.

How is it different than building some bridge or farm subsidies or anything else?
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Old December 21st, 2011, 12:11 PM   #39
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I like threads where hag gar pretends to be smart by trying to insult everyone but doesn't actually have any sort of logical response to add to the conversation.
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Are you fucking kidding me?


Google: BP oil spill

why? Is that a common daily occurance? Accidents happen,when was the last oil spill from these irresponsible oil companies?

I think you are the one who is being kidded when comparing oil spills to irresponsible corporations.
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I'm sure they targeted rural northern michigan when they designed it.
So why the hell would they make him keep one in stock? That's ridiculous,

Hey nester, here's a car we know we did not build to target your demographic, and it probably won't sell, and it isn't even practical or useful in your area, BUT we're gonna require you keep one in the show room.

That's fucking retarded, that's almost like selling diesel crew cab long bed dually's in downtown chicago or manhattan and requiring the dealers in those areas to keep them in stock.
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Old December 21st, 2011, 12:21 PM   #40
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Not true at all, we want the 22mpg 6000# 4x4 one ton trucks that we had in 1991.
LOL. Most people also want power seats, windows, doorlocks, A/C, leather, defoggers, 5 star crash ratings, powertrains the will tow a small apartment building, 0-60mph in under 8 seconds and they want it quiet and to ride nice.



You want a 1991 1-ton truck that gets 22mpg, enjoy your de-rated diesel with none of the above features.
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