Dual friction clutches off road - Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest

Go Back   Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > 4x4 Talk > General Tech
GL4x4 Live! GL4x4 Casino

greatlakes4x4.com is the premier Great Lakes 4x4 Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Search
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old December 12th, 2011, 11:37 AM   #1
wadey
┌∩┐(_)┌∩┐
 
wadey's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-31-11
Location: White Lake / Mt. Pleasant
Posts: 1,630
iTrader: (7)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default Dual friction clutches off road

I'm up for a new clutch and the Center force dual friction clutches have caught my eye, for there increased holding capacity and supposedly lighter pedal effort. However I haven't been able to find any reviews from a 4x4 application let alone from a wheeling stand point.

My concerns would be about crawling and how easily you could release it smoothly as seems to be more of a drag racing set up. Also the weights are progressive and have a higher holding force at higher rpm, not to effective in a crawling application. One other concern would be about getting debris in the discs and weights. I don't mud but the sand from silver lake gets everywhere along with the unavoidable mud on the trail.

Id like to know what you think of them, or any other clutch suggestions that you've found to hold up the abuse our rigs go through.
wadey is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old December 12th, 2011, 08:03 PM   #2
bacongrease
Am i still a Noob?
 
bacongrease's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-28-08
Location: Troy/MI
Posts: 538
iTrader: (8)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

I put a luk gold in my tj when it was time to replace the clutch which was not as costly as a centerforce but not junk either. For rockcrawling it comes down to preference, the luk gold reallllly grabbed and was almost impossible to slip at low rpm's.

My vote - oem replacement or better yet... swap in an automatic
bacongrease is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2011, 08:40 PM   #3
Rob the plumber
Licensed master plumber
 
Rob the plumber's Avatar
 
Join Date: 06-14-06
Location: New Baltimore, Michigan
Posts: 5,800
iTrader: (34)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

I think an oem type would be just fine. Cheap and simple.
Rob the plumber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2011, 08:46 PM   #4
deerebowtie
Unchained
 
deerebowtie's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05-04-09
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 1,775
iTrader: (24)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

I've got a weighted center force pressure plate behind my bbc, there is no slipping it - its either neutral or in gear and going. You can do high rev 4x4 5k+ clutch dumps on pavement and zero slippage. +1 for a quality product. just make sure to use some quality bolts so you don't lose your feets or other important apendages. oh yeah the friction materials...I use the 24$ 12" clutch disk fr om advance auto.


a safety blanket or 1/4" steel scatter shield isn't a bad idea if you drive like stated above.
deerebowtie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2011, 08:48 PM   #5
Dylan
Senior Member
 
Dylan's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-24-06
Location: K-zoo
Posts: 1,127
iTrader: (7)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

I use to smoke stock clutches all day long. Biggest thing would be when in the mud or stuck and start to rev it (no clutch pedal). After getting out (or pulled out) you can always smell burning clutch).

After I put the CF2 DF clutch in I never had the problem. Honestly clutch feel felt the same as before.

this was a 95 yj 4.0 with ax15 and external slave.
Dylan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2011, 08:55 PM   #6
Freak
Wheelin the HD
 
Freak's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-27-07
Location: Portland, TX
Posts: 7,227
iTrader: (14)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via MSN to Freak Send a message via Yahoo to Freak
Default

You don't want tons of grab. I love watching guys with manuals go 3 feet and stall, go 3 feet and stall. Then again you don't want one that will heat up real fast. Burn off or polish your flywheel.
What I have seen on the centerforce the weights don't have tight enough tollerances to jam up easy. I've never wheeled a manual trans, and the few people I've ridden with that have em, makes me glad I've stayed with an auto.
Freak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2011, 09:24 PM   #7
Nuggets
I fix stuff!
 
Nuggets's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-15-06
Location: Bay City, MI
Posts: 13,457
iTrader: (13)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Default

I put a Center Force Dual Friction clutch assembly in my slightly built Suzuki Swift GT. I was burning clutches up at the dragstip so I though the Center Force would be the ticket. The clutch lasted twices as long a a stock clutch: 2 weeks! I ended up buying a sintered brass 4 puck clutch disk on ebay and reusing the CF pressure plate. That setup kicked ass! Second gear burnouts all day with eight inch wide slicks on the car didn't phase it. I hammered that car at the drag strip, autocross, rallycross, and ice racing. It was a fun little shit.
Nuggets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2011, 09:29 PM   #8
wadey
┌∩┐(_)┌∩┐
 
wadey's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-31-11
Location: White Lake / Mt. Pleasant
Posts: 1,630
iTrader: (7)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bacongrease View Post
I put a luk gold in my tj when it was time to replace the clutch which was not as costly as a centerforce but not junk either. For rockcrawling it comes down to preference, the luk gold reallllly grabbed and was almost impossible to slip at low rpm's.


My vote - oem replacement or better yet... swap in an automatic
Thanks I'll check those out but the brands for a 4.3 seem to be limited.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob the plumber View Post
I think an oem type would be just fine. Cheap and simple.
Yeah but my current oem isn't able to hold the truck on a rti ramp or steep driveways (after the sas) unless its in 4lo. That's led to close calls in the driveway and I want to avoid that.
wadey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2011, 09:36 PM   #9
Elvis13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 05-15-11
Location: Addison Township, MI
Posts: 1,180
iTrader: (7)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wadey View Post
Yeah but my current oem isn't able to hold the truck on a rti ramp or steep driveways (after the sas) unless its in 4lo. That's led to close calls in the driveway and I want to avoid that.
Parking brakes? What specifically makes the SAS change your clutches ability to the hold the truck back? weight?
Elvis13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2011, 09:36 PM   #10
wadey
┌∩┐(_)┌∩┐
 
wadey's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-31-11
Location: White Lake / Mt. Pleasant
Posts: 1,630
iTrader: (7)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by deerebowtie View Post
I've got a weighted center force pressure plate behind my bbc, there is no slipping it - its either neutral or in gear and going. You can do high rev 4x4 5k+ clutch dumps on pavement and zero slippage. +1 for a quality product. just make sure to use some quality bolts so you don't lose your feets or other important apendages. oh yeah the friction materials...I use the 24$ 12" clutch disk fr om advance auto.

a safety blanket or 1/4" steel scatter shield isn't a bad idea if you drive like stated above.
Is that a regular centerforce pressure plate then? That sound a little to tight for my liking, Id like to still be able to slip my clutch.

Do you think it could be your linkage limiting your ability to slip it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan View Post
I use to smoke stock clutches all day long. Biggest thing would be when in the mud or stuck and start to rev it (no clutch pedal). After getting out (or pulled out) you can always smell burning clutch).

After I put the CF2 DF clutch in I never had the problem. Honestly clutch feel felt the same as before.

this was a 95 yj 4.0 with ax15 and external slave.
So its ok with MI wheeling and not effecting the clutch? Also can you use a stock style throw out bearing? And I've been there done that with that horrible smell
wadey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2011, 09:39 PM   #11
wadey
┌∩┐(_)┌∩┐
 
wadey's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-31-11
Location: White Lake / Mt. Pleasant
Posts: 1,630
iTrader: (7)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuggets View Post
I put a Center Force Dual Friction clutch assembly in my slightly built Suzuki Swift GT. I was burning clutches up at the dragstip so I though the Center Force would be the ticket. The clutch lasted twices as long a a stock clutch: 2 weeks! I ended up buying a sintered brass 4 puck clutch disk on ebay and reusing the CF pressure plate. That setup kicked ass! Second gear burnouts all day with eight inch wide slicks on the car didn't phase it. I hammered that car at the drag strip, autocross, rallycross, and ice racing. It was a fun little shit.
Good to hear the pressure plate is up to the task. How was staging the car, was it really jumpy or could you control it like a stock clutch?
wadey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2011, 09:43 PM   #12
wadey
┌∩┐(_)┌∩┐
 
wadey's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-31-11
Location: White Lake / Mt. Pleasant
Posts: 1,630
iTrader: (7)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Damn you guys are fast I was trying not to make a million posts but you beat me to it. But thanks for the replies



Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvis13 View Post
Parking brakes? What specifically makes the SAS change your clutches ability to the hold the truck back? weight?
Yeah it gained some weight, but I'm sure the rotational forces a 35" tire creates was the main cause.
wadey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2011, 10:00 PM   #13
frdboy
Wishin' I waz fishin'
 
frdboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-29-06
Location: Grand Haven, MI
Posts: 11,332
iTrader: (25)
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Default

We ran a CF DF set up in a Jeep on 38's with a 385 sbc, SM465 trans. It worked great, not grabby at all, felt like a stock clutch.
__________________
Cheap Thrills Off Road

2003 F-250 4X4 7.3 PSD Crew Cab

1971 Bronco
frdboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2011, 10:32 PM   #14
deerebowtie
Unchained
 
deerebowtie's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05-04-09
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 1,775
iTrader: (24)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

I think frdboy might be talking about the same combo I picked up from durasmack06 a few years ago.
here's the pressure plate I'm running on a stock flywheel/12" clutch with sm465/np205

http://www.centerforce.com/product_d...mber=CFT361909

It may have been my pressure plate had some surface rust I only cleaned off with a 9" grinder scotch brite pad, but it didn't slip. It's all throttle finesse.
deerebowtie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 13th, 2011, 05:15 PM   #15
Mulely
Senior Member
 
Mulely's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-04-06
Location: St Joseph, MI
Posts: 1,196
iTrader: (13)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to Mulely
Default

I can't say as though I would ever recommend a Centerforce to anyone. I have a RAM HDX in my jeep right now behind a 383 and it's nice. If you want to go high end, look at McLeod. Those are super nice and if you're wanting crazy holding power with a super light pedal, look at the twin clutch units. Kinda expensive, but you can push them down with your hand and they'll hold 700 hp.
Mulely is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 13th, 2011, 05:16 PM   #16
Mulely
Senior Member
 
Mulely's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-04-06
Location: St Joseph, MI
Posts: 1,196
iTrader: (13)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to Mulely
Default

And as for slipping your clutch, look for full faced friction plates, not the puck style. Pucks tend to get really grabby when they warm up and the full faced won't as much.
Mulely is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 13th, 2011, 05:25 PM   #17
Renegade II
Coil springs are for pens
 
Renegade II's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05-01-06
Location: Frankenmuth, Mi.
Posts: 3,327
iTrader: (13)
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by frdboy View Post
We ran a CF DF set up in a Jeep on 38's with a 385 sbc, SM465 trans. It worked great, not grabby at all, felt like a stock clutch.
x2

I've got/had CF clutches in all my manuals, not grabby at all, felt like a stock clutch except no slip when the pedal is out. Never had one that needed to be changed out before the engine
Renegade II is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 13th, 2011, 06:22 PM   #18
Nuggets
I fix stuff!
 
Nuggets's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-15-06
Location: Bay City, MI
Posts: 13,457
iTrader: (13)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wadey View Post
Good to hear the pressure plate is up to the task. How was staging the car, was it really jumpy or could you control it like a stock clutch?
The car was very controllable. When you dumped the clutch or shifted, it was right now, no questions asked.

On a side note: I put a CF Dual Friction assembly in a Mustang GT a few years back and the owner was pissed that is rattled/clicked a little bit at idle. I told him it was the weights making the noise but he wouldn't listen and wanted me to replace the clutch at no charge even though he provided the clutch. He also had me put a Richmond Pro Series ring and pinion in his Trans Am. Setting the gear up for drag racing using Richmond specs, the gear had a bit of a whine to it. The paperwork that came with the gear said it was a competition gear set and will be noisier than a stock gear. Guess who was pissed about that! Some people live in a fantasy world.
Nuggets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 13th, 2011, 06:52 PM   #19
bacongrease
Am i still a Noob?
 
bacongrease's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-28-08
Location: Troy/MI
Posts: 538
iTrader: (8)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

I dont think some of you get it...

He has a 4.3, not a race motor.

Hes looking for a clutch that wont slip when when fully enganged but can also be slipped for crawling.

Even with low gears there are times where you need to hold 2500-3000ish rpms while holding full brakes, then release the clutch slowly (slipping it a bit) and let off the brakes slowly in order to have control and not slip the tires / roll back.

When i switched clutches this became near impossible. As i let out the clutch it was fractions of inch of pedal travel between no engagement and 100% engagement. This was on a TJ with 38's a 4.0-AX15-231-300doubler.

I personally dont think an OEM clutch should slip even in 4hi, if i were you i would inspect what you have before shelling $$ on a blink clutch. That is if slow, controlled crawling is what your after. Drag racing.. big power.... no slip... you will want a better clutch

my .02 cents
bacongrease is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 13th, 2011, 11:15 PM   #20
Nuggets
I fix stuff!
 
Nuggets's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-15-06
Location: Bay City, MI
Posts: 13,457
iTrader: (13)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Default

I used a stock clutch in my SBC powered 54" tired Metro. I think I may have put two clutches in over a seven year period. I personally think the CF Dual Friction clutches are not worth the money.
Nuggets is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > 4x4 Talk > General Tech

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:10 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright 2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Page generated in 0.29061 seconds with 80 queries