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Old December 29th, 2012, 08:52 AM   #61
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The thing about the coil over shocks is more about getting the spring rate correct. You guys running them know that even with the calculators the chances of a novice getting the correct setup perfect on the first try is dang near impossible.
Toss in the amount of pure guessing I will have on this(not to many builds like this to go off of) and I see myself buying 2 or even 3 sets of springs before I would get the feel and results I want. That on top of the fact that the shocks do need constant rebuilding and charging(at least every 2 years if driven like I plan) and the fact that they still will not allow the reaction time that I want had me looking elsewhere.

I am not saying coil overs are bad in any re-guard. I am just saying I feel they are not right for this build with the goals and uses I have planned. I am really trying to avoid shooting my mouth off with my crazy ideas. I am simply going to do it and you guys can give feedback after you see how it performs.
huh
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Old December 29th, 2012, 09:44 AM   #62
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Yes it maybe rated for 1/4" but would you trust it with your life in the hands of a novice/beginner ? I wouldn't personally if I was buliding this I would tig weld it myself. To assure proper penitration with little to no paroscity. Nothing I have ever welded has ever broke.
a mig welder in the hands of a beginner will be better off then a tig any day of the week . he'll be fine as long is it isn't bird shit and he gets enough heat in it. along w good structure design
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Old December 29th, 2012, 10:02 AM   #63
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a mig welder in the hands of a beginner will be better off then a tig any day of the week . he'll be fine as long is it isn't bird shit and he gets enough heat in it. along w good structure design
If in doubt add more 8 ball gussets!
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Old December 29th, 2012, 10:18 AM   #64
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"x" welds for the win
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Old December 29th, 2012, 07:55 PM   #65
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I am using the 440 setting and getting good penetration. I cut a few pieces of tubing when I first started to make sure.

The 120 setting is just kind of there. Maybe I will use it later on with some 16 gauge fenders on something else but don't see realistically using that setting much.
I looked at buying a chassis but eh that kind of defeats the goal of building this from the ground up. Besides I would see people rolling there eyes if I tried to explain the door thing. I have done other builds but I always started with a cab or a frame then built off of that.
Once the cab is finished it is going to be quite a strong box. It is the most built and heaviest part of the chassis. Everything except for this strong box is designed to be as lightweight as possible(while still being .120 thick)and either be crushed or be bent in a crash or roll. This is to lessen the forces to the people inside and prevent injury.The areas that are designed to bend or crush are designed to be easily rebuild able which is why they are very basic.
Don't worry I more then over thought the safety aspect. The strong box is based off of ultra 4(minimum specs due to no windshield brace) then I added a few things like the uprights to keep the window area street legal while keeping the roof from crushing.
The thing is not triangulated yet. Once I mock the motor there will be a x brace in the back, x on the roof, angle on the floors under the driver and passenger, and the dash will be triangulated to keep the uprights from bending in a side impact.
To further strengthen it I am adding a .120 thick roof and floor panels which will be welded tying the outside cage and x roof support together. I had a ton of different ideas for the roof but that is the one that is the safest while providing a leak proof barrier. It adds a bit of weight but will take forever to rust and protect rocks/branches/ice/etc from coming in. The doors are actually very strong once the lexan is in place and they also provide a great amount of protection from derbies while being leak proof. The actual door opening is only 28" giving easy entry while lessening the chance of any type of frame member entering the cab in a side impact. I thought of every possible scenario and the strong box performs very well. Worst case scenario I have a huge 32x66" windshield to be pulled out of.

This build is entitled "my first buggy build" I do plan on rolling it and such and then rebuilding it which is why there are few bends and the Monocoque style was used. I am not using molly or tig welding the thing because that is just to freaking expensive and time consuming. The joints fit tight together with me needing a BFH most of the time to get them into place they are so tight. My welds are good and I clean both mating surfaces fully within a hour of welding. I am making sure to weld a quarter of the tube then move to a different piece of tubing to avoid any heat issues before coming back to the tubing. This method also has given cleaner welds with me tossing the cage around quite a bit to get the best angle to weld.

That double weld thing is a embarrassment and was just a spur of the moment thing.

I have a entire month until I can get back to this thing and already wish I was there to get back to working on it. Oh well that just gives me time to order a few more parts.
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Old December 29th, 2012, 08:41 PM   #66
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I hope your using the 240 setting. 440 might be a bit much for that little guy
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Old December 29th, 2012, 09:38 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by cerial View Post
I am using the 440 setting and getting good penetration. I cut a few pieces of tubing when I first started to make sure.

The 120 setting is just kind of there. Maybe I will use it later on with some 16 gauge fenders on something else but don't see realistically using that setting much.
I looked at buying a chassis but eh that kind of defeats the goal of building this from the ground up. Besides I would see people rolling there eyes if I tried to explain the door thing. I have done other builds but I always started with a cab or a frame then built off of that.
Once the cab is finished it is going to be quite a strong box. It is the most built and heaviest part of the chassis. Everything except for this strong box is designed to be as lightweight as possible(while still being .120 thick)and either be crushed or be bent in a crash or roll. This is to lessen the forces to the people inside and prevent injury.The areas that are designed to bend or crush are designed to be easily rebuild able which is why they are very basic.
Don't worry I more then over thought the safety aspect. The strong box is based off of ultra 4(minimum specs due to no windshield brace) then I added a few things like the uprights to keep the window area street legal while keeping the roof from crushing.
The thing is not triangulated yet. Once I mock the motor there will be a x brace in the back, x on the roof, angle on the floors under the driver and passenger, and the dash will be triangulated to keep the uprights from bending in a side impact.
To further strengthen it I am adding a .120 thick roof and floor panels which will be welded tying the outside cage and x roof support together. I had a ton of different ideas for the roof but that is the one that is the safest while providing a leak proof barrier. It adds a bit of weight but will take forever to rust and protect rocks/branches/ice/etc from coming in. The doors are actually very strong once the lexan is in place and they also provide a great amount of protection from derbies while being leak proof. The actual door opening is only 28" giving easy entry while lessening the chance of any type of frame member entering the cab in a side impact. I thought of every possible scenario and the strong box performs very well. Worst case scenario I have a huge 32x66" windshield to be pulled out of.

This build is entitled "my first buggy build" I do plan on rolling it and such and then rebuilding it which is why there are few bends and the Monocoque style was used. I am not using molly or tig welding the thing because that is just to freaking expensive and time consuming. The joints fit tight together with me needing a BFH most of the time to get them into place they are so tight. My welds are good and I clean both mating surfaces fully within a hour of welding. I am making sure to weld a quarter of the tube then move to a different piece of tubing to avoid any heat issues before coming back to the tubing. This method also has given cleaner welds with me tossing the cage around quite a bit to get the best angle to weld.

That double weld thing is a embarrassment and was just a spur of the moment thing.

I have a entire month until I can get back to this thing and already wish I was there to get back to working on it. Oh well that just gives me time to order a few more parts.

ok you win

I figured it out, your building the Fastest 2 Seater Armourd Truck,

when your on the road Truck Driving, do you talk to yourself into a dicktator machine or do you have a girl/buddy in the passanger seat that does short hand or takes cliff notes of your thoughts

just buggin, have a safe road trip working and a Happy New Year
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Old January 5th, 2013, 09:18 PM   #68
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any new updates on this bad mother fucker?
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Old January 5th, 2013, 09:30 PM   #69
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Somewhere in that last diatribe he said he will be on the road for a month or two. Stay tuned.........
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Old January 5th, 2013, 09:44 PM   #70
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Staying tuned............................................. .............................
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Old January 5th, 2013, 10:04 PM   #71
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we did some "x" welding on trailrails bronco last night...I have to say they turned out pretty good
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Old January 6th, 2013, 01:44 AM   #72
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My mom always said if you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all. Guess I'll shut up now.
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Old January 6th, 2013, 03:29 AM   #73
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Fuck the haters. This is your first build and its gonna be a little rough around the edges. But with that said its a LEARNING EXPERIENCE for him. Everyone needs to step back and look at their first build and I gaurentee it was a learning experience for you and a building block to make your next build/rig better than the last. My advise, build what's in your head. The only person you need to please is yourself and if you like it then nothing else matters

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Old January 6th, 2013, 05:23 AM   #74
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Fuck the haters. This is your first build and its gonna be a little rough around the edges. But with that said its a LEARNING EXPERIENCE for him. Everyone needs to step back and look at their first build and I gaurentee it was a learning experience for you and a building block to make your next build/rig better than the last. My advise, build what's in your head. The only person you need to please is yourself and if you like it then nothing else matters
I wish I had pictures of my first build, then again nope.

You will learn alot on your first build as you already know but keep an open mind to peoples suggestions as many have done it countless times before and made the mistakes that you don't have to make. You will make some but it can save you from making the same ones or hurting yourself if not done right.

Keep at it. I look forward to seeing this completed.

If I missed it what is the purpose of this rig if not for rock crawling or towing airplanes?
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Old January 6th, 2013, 08:16 AM   #75
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Fuck the haters. This is your first build and its gonna be a little rough around the edges. But with that said its a LEARNING EXPERIENCE for him. Everyone needs to step back and look at their first build and I gaurentee it was a learning experience for you and a building block to make your next build/rig better than the last. My advise, build what's in your head. The only person you need to please is yourself and if you like it then nothing else matters
Holy shit, when did dr Phil get an account here?
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Old January 6th, 2013, 08:19 AM   #76
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Holy shit, when did dr Phil get an account here?
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Old January 6th, 2013, 09:46 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by XJsport95 View Post
Fuck the haters. This is your first build and its gonna be a little rough around the edges. But with that said its a LEARNING EXPERIENCE for him. Everyone needs to step back and look at their first build and I gaurentee it was a learning experience for you and a building block to make your next build/rig better than the last. My advise, build what's in your head. The only person you need to please is yourself and if you like it then nothing else matters
Rough around the edges is one thing, but ignoring sound advice and straying from convention(and safety) for the sake of being different is an entirely different story. I'm not one to bash somebody's first build just to be a dick, but that chassis looks like a straight up box of death to me at this point. Hopefully once finished it'll get some bracing, some major triangulation, and for God's sake some aesthetic appeal!! Function takes priority over form in this sport but so far I see neither. The concept on page 1 seems right but the execution looks scary.
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Old January 21st, 2013, 06:26 PM   #78
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More please.
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Old January 21st, 2013, 08:30 PM   #79
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My first build is in my sig.......I'd say he's doing it wrong but who the fukc knows what he's building to say right or rong. So far the build s right on par with most of his posts.
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Old January 26th, 2013, 05:41 PM   #80
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The cab has no real cross bracing at this point. No gussets either. It will have them though. I need to fit the motor in place to see exactly where to put them.
The roof and two-piece floor are both 1/8 thick plates and will further strengthen the cage. It is more about being able to run this and wash it out with a hose. The roof is because I hate pulling dents out of the roof and expect a few rocks to hit this. The roof plate alone is 90 pounds. It is heavy, but will never leak. When the tires start going towards the sky I will not need to worry about a branch or rock coming through the roof.

I am waiting for my transfer case to be finished. I need it to see how it affects the passenger side. The transfer case is located according to the front axle. So I need to find a 2.5 and make sure everything is dead-on there before placing the transfer case. I have rough estimates and a lot of room to play with. But until I have everything in place I am holding off the floor.
These is tons of I can do to the cage still. Like installing the windshield inner and outer plate, installing the doors, installing all the door tracks, installing the roof bracing.
Right now I am focusing on the 472 and mating it to the 465. I am playing phone tag with this guy from C.A.D. Company. Cad500parts.com
I am getting advice from his years of experience on what parts to use with this engine. The damn flywheel is not cheap. When it comes to the clutch I can use as much advice as I can get. Finding a clutch that will not slip, provide good street feel, and work between 700 and 3000 is becoming a pain.
I made the clutch very easy to replace on this. Still I do not want to resurface the flywheel every 10k because I am constantly frying a low dollar single disk. On the other hand I do not want to install a seven hundred dollar clutch. Only to have it become an on/off clutch. It is really a very important decision so I am taking my time.

The engine to transmission, oil upgrade, intake upgrade, dui upgrade, propane kit, timing set/cover upgrade, water pump upgrade, 6 rib pulleys, and all accessories including hydraulic aid pump and kit. I am looking to toss around $3500 into this beast to get it up to par. Considering I stole the engine and 400 transmission at $350 and the power of the final product I am ok dumping cash into making this already great engine better. Closer to the end I will need to make some tappet cover following headers to gain clearance around the many things I only have roughly placed. Until then I will use the stock (heavy) manifolds to make sure I have enough room.

Update up to this point.
I bought a 2.5 Rockwell manual from Ouverson to learn more about these. This will help me build some light weight mock up axles accurately.

I should have parts to mate the engine to the transmission in the mail here in the next week. Like I said I need to look closer at the clutch. Once I talk with the guy at CAD Company concerning the flywheel a clutch kit will also be in the mail. Everything should be at the house by the end of February which is when I plan on returning. Hopefully, it will be a bit warmer and I can get more done on the cage.
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