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Old November 16th, 2011, 10:04 AM   #21
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Geez, now I feel like I should have gotten a Ford just so I could deal with Dana!
that and ford has the best offerings right now in the small car segment.

Out of my league for new cars but the explorer, f150, edge are also damn nice vehicles in their respective segments.
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Old November 16th, 2011, 10:40 AM   #22
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that and ford has the best offerings right now in the small car segment.

Out of my league for new cars but the explorer, f150, edge are also damn nice vehicles in their respective segments.
I'm pretty happy with my 11 cruze.
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Old November 16th, 2011, 11:07 AM   #23
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Per the words of Dave Ramsey, "you should negotiate every major purchase, never pay the asking price."
It's because of idiots like Dave Ramsey that I have to quote jobs 10% higher then normal so the customer "feels good" about getting 10% off when he asks for a discount.
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Old November 16th, 2011, 11:31 AM   #24
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I just get two dealers and have them battle. I got $10k knocked off a vehicle doing that.

Its better for them to sell a vehicle and only make $500 then to let there compitition get it.
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Old November 16th, 2011, 11:54 AM   #25
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that and ford has the best offerings right now in the small car segment.

Out of my league for new cars but the explorer, f150, edge are also damn nice vehicles in their respective segments.
Small cars?
F that!
I'm an American!!!!
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Old November 16th, 2011, 12:13 PM   #26
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that and ford has the best offerings right now in the small car segment.

Out of my league for new cars but the explorer, f150, edge are also damn nice vehicles in their respective segments.
My dad has a 2011 Edge and he loves it, although he has had it a few months and still doesn't know how to control all of the media center functions. Gas mileage is 21+ as well.
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Old November 16th, 2011, 01:47 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by clarkstoncracker View Post
It's because of idiots like Dave Ramsey that I have to quote jobs 10% higher then normal so the customer "feels good" about getting 10% off when he asks for a discount.
YEP, the same idiot who get my wife am I to pay attention, now we OWN our house, and the three cars in the drive way.

The last one we walked in with cash, in hand not in the bank.
Got what I thought was aa great deal.

He may be an idiot but he is a very rich idiot.
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Old November 16th, 2011, 02:10 PM   #28
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YEP, the same idiot who get my wife am I to pay attention, now we OWN our house, and the three cars in the drive way.

The last one we walked in with cash, in hand not in the bank.
Got what I thought was aa great deal.

He may be an idiot but he is a very rich idiot.
IMO, paying off a house with interest rates what they are right now is not a very good plan long term. Dave Ramsey's approach works for people who were not $$ savvy, and I'm sure it has helped numerous people. But there is a way better approach to finances that people can take.

But to each their own.
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Old November 16th, 2011, 08:40 PM   #29
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IMO, paying off a house with interest rates what they are right now is not a very good plan long term. Dave Ramsey's approach works for people who were not $$ savvy, and I'm sure it has helped numerous people. But there is a way better approach to finances that people can take.

But to each their own.


Help we with your math on this.
250,000 say at 4.0% 30 year =about 540,000 total to pay off. So you don't want to save 1/4 million or so?
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Old November 17th, 2011, 06:30 AM   #30
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Help we with your math on this.
250,000 say at 4.0% 30 year =about 540,000 total to pay off. So you don't want to save 1/4 million or so?
Not to put words in Kelly's mouth, but I'm guessing that he is trying to point out that with active management of leveraged money it is possible to earn more than the 4% interest cost - especially if/when you factor in the tax shelter of the interest payments in early years in the amortization.
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Old November 17th, 2011, 06:33 AM   #31
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Help we with your math on this.
250,000 say at 4.0% 30 year =about 540,000 total to pay off. So you don't want to save 1/4 million or so?
Not when you can take that money that you are putting into the house to pay it off faster and earn more than 4.0% back on it.

However, most people are not investment savvy enough to do that, so like you, and myself, we choose to pay down our principal and pay off the house sooner to save money on interest over the long haul.
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Old November 17th, 2011, 06:51 AM   #32
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Not when you can take that money that you are putting into the house to pay it off faster and earn more than 4.0% back on it.

However, most people are not investment savvy enough to do that, so like you, and myself, we choose to pay down our principal and pay off the house sooner to save money on interest over the long haul.
Aside from whether one is investment savvy enough, there are often overlooked factors. Higher rates of return on investments are almost universally followed by higher risks - there is also always the possibility of inflation risk. Higher rates of return also have tax ramifications, which at different times in this Nation's history have been significant.

To counter Kelly's supposition, there is also the old adage that it is rarely financially advisable to pay interest on a depreciating asset, unless it earns a higher rate of return through some sort of cash-flow. Michigan's real estate market certainly is not yet appreciating. However, if you buy today, and have the stamina and chutzpa to hold onto the asset for a long period of time, it may provide a long term return on investment greater than the interest.

but then, so too might a mason jar full of silver dollars from Gramma's curio cabinet.
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Old November 17th, 2011, 07:03 AM   #33
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I am not overlooking those factors, I am considering them in the investment savvy portion of my argument. All factors must be taken into account, strategic investing and planning to avoid or overcome the taxation issues. It can all get extremely complicated as you mentioned. For the average Joe or even the casually savvy investor it still may be smarter to take the simple approach and just pay off your assets.
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Old November 17th, 2011, 07:22 AM   #34
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I am not overlooking those factors, I am considering them in the investment savvy portion of my argument. All factors must be taken into account, strategic investing and planning to avoid or overcome the taxation issues. It can all get extremely complicated as you mentioned. For the average Joe or even the casually savvy investor it still may be smarter to take the simple approach and just pay off your assets.
I belabored the point again (not really surprising is it?)

I meant to include, and sort of danced around the notion that some people may in fact be savvy enough, but not have the courage/supply of rolaids to weather the storms.

We're really saying the same thing in different ways - and perhaps most importantly both disagreeing with Kelly
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Old November 17th, 2011, 07:27 AM   #35
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That's the other thing, just because you know you may be able to get more money in return than what interest is costing you, you may also not be willing to take the risks, or have the liquid cash on hand etc.

I am not disagreeing with kelly at all, he's right "if" you have the ability to make it happen it is a better route.
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Old November 17th, 2011, 07:29 AM   #36
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RyeBread said exactly where I was going.. It's a big math equation and in the end counting in tax savings from interests paid, housing market changes, stock market changes, and bond yield rates, paying off a house is usually not a wise thing to do at an interest rate under 6%...

And I only say usually because some people have been hammered in the market with bad investments, or something else happens that is not in the norm.
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Old November 17th, 2011, 10:53 AM   #37
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I don't negotiate when I buy a vehicle. I make myself look like a demanding asshole (which is not hard). After they give a price different than the sticker, I agree. Then I demand a bunch of other shit thown in at the asking price.

Stuff like accessories are fine, but maintenance plans or extended warranties are what I usually shoot for. Best bang for the buck.
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