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View Poll Results: How do you feel about your BMI # effecting your health care?
Good idea. 9 23.68%
None of their damn business! 29 76.32%
Voters: 38. You may not vote on this poll

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Old November 15th, 2011, 12:49 PM   #1
bubbarich1
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Default public opinion poll on BMI

I am writing a paper for school on the Body Mass Index, and how it affects us as Americans. In a nutshell the government wants to have our BMI # electronically sent to them to help determine our health care needs. Here is the section of the law.

As outlined in Section 3001 of the stimulus law, it reads, "The National Coordinator shall, in consultation with other appropriate Federal agencies (including the National Institute of Standards and Technology), update the Federal Health IT Strategic Plan (developed as of June 3, 2008) to include specific objectives, milestones, and metrics with respect to the following: (i) The electronic exchange and use of health information and the enterprise integration of such information.(ii) The utilization of an electronic health record for each person in the United States by 2014."

My position in this paper is how can they use an index that is at best a guesstimation of your body fat content, to determine our health care needs. Your opinions and comments would be helpful in gaining an understanding of how the public views this new movement. Thanks
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Old November 15th, 2011, 12:52 PM   #2
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Is this for real? Crazy in my opinion.

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Old November 15th, 2011, 12:53 PM   #3
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bmi is a shitty form of determining someone's health concerns and risks, and its none of their fucking business.

On the flipside there are too many overweight americans and at times it disgusts me.
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Old November 15th, 2011, 12:59 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by kickstand View Post
bmi is a shitty form of determining someone's health concerns and risks, and its none of their fucking business.

On the flipside there are too many overweight americans and at times it disgusts me.
I agree. The overweight population should do something about their weight, but IF they are paying for their own health care I don't think they should be denied anything less than their full coverage.
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Old November 15th, 2011, 01:06 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by kickstand View Post
bmi is a shitty form of determining someone's health concerns and risks, and its none of their fucking business.
I agree with that point. I've never probably had a "normal" or whatever they call acceptable BMI for my height. But there have been points in life when I've been in pretty damn good shape even though I had some extra chunk. Then there are times like now...

I think the BMI thing is a half assed attempt to give an empirical measure to something that really isn't that cut and dried.

This is probably a way for the government to try and weasel out of the whole health care for everyone shenanigan by putting limitation factors on certain groups. First it will be the fat, then it will be the people with a history of cancer in their families, sooner or later it will be either you are perfectly healthy and get free health care or you are ??? and they send you to the Soylent Green factory.
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Old November 15th, 2011, 01:11 PM   #6
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I DO think healhty living should be incentivized through health care. I pay less to be on a healthy living HMO than I did when I was on the PPO. The health care companies should allow the doctors to manage the health of their patients but include incentives such as lower premiums and deductibles for people who work to lower their own risk.

If you decide to be overweight, have a poor diet, smoke, and I am sure there are other things, I shouldn't have to pay increased health insurance rates for your choices. You still have freedom of choice but I don't suffer for your choices.
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Old November 15th, 2011, 01:18 PM   #7
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I think smoking, drinking and premarital sex should also be taking into account. . .
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Old November 15th, 2011, 01:20 PM   #8
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I dont think your BMI tells the whole or aaccurate story on each persons health. That could be one of the factors but not the only one.
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Old November 15th, 2011, 01:22 PM   #9
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Here is a little history that I have found on the BMI.

The BMI was invented in the mid 1800s by a Belgian statistician named Adolphe Quetelet. The original name for this formula was the Quetelet Index, but in 1972 it was change to the BMI by a scientist named Ancel Keys who slightly modified the equation from its original form and popularized it in the West. Using a mathematic equation, Quetelet asserted that it was possible to determine one’s ideal weight for their height. Keys went further to suggest that the BMI could be used as a proxy of measurement for quickly determining the fat content ratio of a population sampling for the purposes of charting the then burgeoning epidemic of obesity. However, the formula’s simplicity and popularity soon caused many practitioners and health professionals to begin applying the formula to individual patients despite Keys’ explicit opposition.

Even the creator seems to think it's a bad idea.
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Old November 15th, 2011, 01:28 PM   #10
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BMI is a terrible gauge of overal physical health.

I freely admit that I am way overweight, although I'm trying to do something about it. On Aug 1, I was 295 lbs. I am now 254 lbs, and I have about 55 lbs more to go.

In the course of my dieting, I've had occasion to check out my BMI on the Internet. Keep in mind that BMI is calculated by a formula that inputs only: Gender, Height, and Weight.

I tried entering in various weights and having the forumla "classify" my BMI. I am 6'0" tall. If I weighed 184 lbs, I would still be classified as "overweight". I'd have to get down to 183 lbs to be classified as "healthy".

Continuing downward, if I weighed 136 lbs, I would still be classified as "healthy". I'd have to get down to 135 lbs to be classified as "underweight".

When I was in the military, my upper limit was 203 lbs. If I went above that weight, I'd be removed from flying status. During most of my service career, I was 185-190 lbs, which BMI would classify as "overweight", although the flight surgeons repeatedly said that was my ideal weight. During Vietnam, when I was somewhat food-deprived, my weight went down to about 155 lbs for 5 or 6 months. I looked skinny as a rail and you could almost put your fingers around my bicep. The military docs were displeased and put me on forced caloric intake to get my weight back up to their standards. Yet the BMI index would classify my as "healthy" if I weighed 136 lbs!

Gotta be a better way.
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Old November 15th, 2011, 01:34 PM   #11
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BMI this.

I'm 5-10, weigh 180-185 lbs and have less than 15% body fat.

My BMI says I am borderline obese. 25.8 bmi, 25-29 bmi indicates overweight.

On the flip side, there is information like this.

Quote:
While age can contribute to recommended body fat percentages, the American Council on Exercise has a different grouping of ranges based on your level of fitness and then gender. Athletes tend to have relatively low body fat percentages. Women have anywhere between 14 and 20 percent while men carry 6 to 13 percent body fat. Fit individuals have a bit more body fat, yet much lower than the acceptable level. Fit females carry 21 to 24 percent and fit males carry 14 to 17 percent body fat. Acceptable body fat percentages are 25 to 31 percent in women and 18 to 25 percent in men.


I am categorized as athletic or "fit" as opposed to normal, or overweight.

So my % body fat indicates I'm fit and what I would assume means healthy. My BMI indicates I am overweight and what I assume to mean unhealthy.

Completely fucking useless measurement.

Further I have very low blood pressure, blah blah blah.....I hate BMI.

Now to Kerryann's point I don't mind if individual healthcare companies would like to offer incentives to people based on their health and activities. But the government can continue to stay the fukc out of my business.
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Old November 15th, 2011, 01:37 PM   #12
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Stupid idea IMO. more important by far is genetics. U gonna use that against people too? How about sedentary lifestyle (lazy)?

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Old November 15th, 2011, 01:39 PM   #13
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Just like everything else. The government is getting involved in your personal business because the sheep of this country see nothing but the free hand me outs...
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Old November 15th, 2011, 01:44 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSailor View Post
BMI is a terrible gauge of overal physical health.

I freely admit that I am way overweight, although I'm trying to do something about it. On Aug 1, I was 295 lbs. I am now 254 lbs, and I have about 55 lbs more to go.

In the course of my dieting, I've had occasion to check out my BMI on the Internet. Keep in mind that BMI is calculated by a formula that inputs only: Gender, Height, and Weight.

I tried entering in various weights and having the forumla "classify" my BMI. I am 6'0" tall. If I weighed 184 lbs, I would still be classified as "overweight". I'd have to get down to 183 lbs to be classified as "healthy".

Continuing downward, if I weighed 136 lbs, I would still be classified as "healthy". I'd have to get down to 135 lbs to be classified as "underweight".

When I was in the military, my upper limit was 203 lbs. If I went above that weight, I'd be removed from flying status. During most of my service career, I was 185-190 lbs, which BMI would classify as "overweight", although the flight surgeons repeatedly said that was my ideal weight. During Vietnam, when I was somewhat food-deprived, my weight went down to about 155 lbs for 5 or 6 months. I looked skinny as a rail and you could almost put your fingers around my bicep. The military docs were displeased and put me on forced caloric intake to get my weight back up to their standards. Yet the BMI index would classify my as "healthy" if I weighed 136 lbs!

Gotta be a better way.
well stated.
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Old November 15th, 2011, 01:45 PM   #15
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Just like everything else. The government is getting involved in your personal business because the sheep of this country see nothing but the free hand me outs...
You seem directly opposed to your wife's point of view.
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Old November 15th, 2011, 01:49 PM   #16
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I agree with OldSailor. The BMI does not take into account that muscle weighs more than fat. I don't understand how or why the government would want to use an index that is so flawed. I have also found on multiple web sites, for calculating your BMI, different weight ranges for a corresponding index number. That seems to be the biggest bullshit flag if I ever saw one.
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Old November 15th, 2011, 01:53 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kickstand View Post
You seem directly opposed to your wife's point of view.
That wouldn't be the first, second, or even third time that's happened...

But I don't think they are even related.

I understand and fully agree with the incentivised(sp? or even a word?) health care for for "healthy" people and I also fully agree with some sort of penalty for those that are not "healthy".

My post had more to do with the mindset of people in this country not reading the fine print and assuming you are going to get something for nothing. I swear the populace of this country would let you lead them down a dark ally with a knife in your hand as long as you told them there was free cookies and the end...

All I've ever heard from people is, "free health care". Where is that money coming from? What stipulations are going to be involved? No one ever seemed to ask those questions, well of the people blindly supporting it that is.

But I'm actually getting WAY off topic.
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Old November 15th, 2011, 02:02 PM   #18
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So my question is (and I don't think the government should be involved with private health care at all) if the government passes this law and it effects the people who's health care we support with our taxes, does it not become everyone's business?

I think health care should stay private but I know for a fact that we can't just kick everyone off medicare and medicaid (lets not be dumbasses and pretend like that is going to happen). If you are on one of those health care systems the government should be able to enforce that you reduce your risk.
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Old November 15th, 2011, 02:06 PM   #19
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have NOT read most of the responses above.

however, i have the following questions about the use of BMI:

isn't the BMI index somewhat arbitrary?
does the gov't discuss the origin/basis/scientific reliability of this measurement data?
is BMI calibrated for a western diet, an asian, european, yada yada diet?
is BMI calibrated for the standard of living of the measuree? have read many articles stating that the poorer you are the higher you diet in low cost, high carbo items that tend to add weight.
is BMI calibrated for ethnicity?
if the medical community can 'arbitrarily' change what is an acceptable cholesterol # or blood pressure range, what's to stop gov't from doing the same to BMI?
if my insurance premiums are going be impacted by BMI data, can i buy off my attending physician to submit a better # than i really have?
my BMI may be good but what if i drink like a fish, use drugs, etc; how will be reflected in uncle sam's data base? gov't going to randomly test us to see if we're for real?
use this as an example of government folly: our government is proposing major changes to school lunch menus to promote 'healthy' eatting. as such they want to define the tomatoe sauce on a slice of pizza as a serving of veggies.
ANYTHING that is created and applied by government or any other organization to as diverse a population as in the in a one-size-fits-all manner should be looked at as suspect. it's like saying mens blue jeans should only be sold in ONE SIZE, 36W 31L.
and, do i want these data in a gov't data base that will someday, sure as death and taxes, get hacked?
end of rant. you may now return to your regularly scheduled studies.
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Old November 15th, 2011, 02:06 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschaffer66 View Post
That wouldn't be the first, second, or even third time that's happened...

But I don't think they are even related.

I understand and fully agree with the incentivised(sp? or even a word?) health care for for "healthy" people and I also fully agree with some sort of penalty for those that are not "healthy".

My post had more to do with the mindset of people in this country not reading the fine print and assuming you are going to get something for nothing. I swear the populace of this country would let you lead them down a dark ally with a knife in your hand as long as you told them there was free cookies and the end...

All I've ever heard from people is, "free health care". Where is that money coming from? What stipulations are going to be involved? No one ever seemed to ask those questions, well of the people blindly supporting it that is.

But I'm actually getting WAY off topic.
You are not that far off topic at all and I agree with the point you are trying to make.

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Originally Posted by kerryann View Post
So my question is (and I don't think the government should be involved with private health care at all) if the government passes this law and it effects the people who's health care we support with our taxes, does it not become everyone's business?

I think health care should stay private but I know for a fact that we can't just kick everyone off medicare and medicaid (lets not be dumbasses and pretend like that is going to happen). If you are on one of those health care systems the government should be able to enforce that you reduce your risk.
My mistake, I thought you were for the idea of the government analyzing everyone's health records so you could save a buck.

Now, on the flip side, if you are on government assistance, or government offered free health care, you should have to take a drug test, blood pressure, physical, turn in a food diary, etc. weekly to show that you are trying to improve your well being on your own, or your lazy ass is droppedfrom your "free" healthcare.
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