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Old September 29th, 2006, 11:41 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarksinca
To wit, the news crew did a great job of finding the worst moron to interview. This woman actually said, "...I love this camp. I love seeing these kids so emersed in the holy spirit that they would lay down thier lives for it, like the muslim kids in the middle east..."

All I could think was... "uh... did you really just say that?" I think you could have found a better comparison for how much the kids believe in the faith. Extremists anyone?
Um, they interviewed her because its her camp. How can that be the worst person to interview, she's the one spewing that garbage.
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Old September 29th, 2006, 11:42 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by FrankNBrew
Really, I'm not bitter. I have a brother who has been "born again". I very much respect his choice. It's simply not for me. I have a different personanlity than him. He was always looking for something more out of life. I am happy with what I have.

On the other hand, I have a "born again" coworker. The asshole swears and womanizes more than any "sinners" I know. In one sentence he will be talking about his love for Jesus. Then he spots a hot chick and says "Holy fukc . Look at the tits on that bitch". I then mention that his actions are not very Christian, and he responds with "Don't judge me". Maybe he's just a "born again" bad apple, but he does nothing to change my view of religion.

I get very disgusted when I see losers on TV accused of crimes, and they say "God will work things out".

I get very disgusted when I see these urban church pastors driving brand new Cadillacs and wearing fur coats.

It sickens me when Catholic priests touch little boys penises.

It's these people that move me away from religion.

I have not yet experienced anything in my life that would lead me closer to God. Everything so far has moved me farther away.

I don't mean to offend you when I use the term "brainwashing". I don't think there is anything wrong with having strong faith in Jesus. I'm sure you're a better person for it. But it just doesn't click with me.
So when you got o family partie4s, do you get drawn into prayers prayed in Jesus' name? Does anyone guilt you for not being saved? Is there perhaps even an elitist attitude?

Dude, I get frustrated by THE SAME plagues of the christian faith that you do. I am not in support of the super hypocrites out there either. But you have made the mistake of trying to fault God by highlihgting his people's sins. If you want to understand God more, then look to God himself, not public wackos. If you wanted to understand the airline industry, you would look at the balance sheet of american airlines or the ideologies of the CEO, you would not just study planes that crash (which is the equivalent of what you are doing in matter of faith). Believe it or not, some christians out there are bettering the world, loving their neighbors, caring for widows, paying people's mortgages when they lost their job, etc.

Remember, the jerk at your work who womanizes, he is the one who knows how messed up he is , and how badly he needs God. Whether or not he allows God to change him fully is another matter. You see, the sin nature of mankind does not disapprear when one says they believe, they remian sinners, but they receive forgiveness. Sure, the jerk ought to straighten out his life, but he will never be perfect, neither will I, neither will you. You may not have as many overt problems as that guy, but you got problems/sins just like me. The amount of your imperfection does not matter, but the penalty of that sin is what matters.
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Old September 29th, 2006, 11:47 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by Haggar
Um, they interviewed her because its her camp. How can that be the worst person to interview, she's the one spewing that garbage.
Well, IMO you'd want someone that is "prepared" to speak to the media and not try to make the camp sound like a bunch of psycho's trying to enlist a crusade army! I'm not sure if she ran the camp or not... wasn't interested enough to watch the whole interview. But as with all things in life... the key is in moderation.
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Old September 29th, 2006, 11:58 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by 84Scrambler
I take religion seriously. I take it seriously when religious views interfere with my ability and right to live my life.

buy a 12-pack of Killians at 10am on a Sunday morning so I can go home and watch football
First off, you should be buyign seasonal beer like Sam Adams Octoberfest, and you ought to be buying it from costco so you don't have to make last minute purchases

So why aren't you lobbying to make it available you to? Fight back

But WAYY more important is why are you making Jesus associated with some random alchochol purchasing rule? I suspect that you are out to find fault, and fault is all you will find.

Last edited by Dave Kerwin; September 29th, 2006 at 12:02 PM.
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Old September 29th, 2006, 12:11 PM   #105
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Who am I going to lobby? My senator or representative? They don't dare cross the religious conservative boundary lines. They would never be re-elected. They have to play towards the votes, not what they believe or think is right. Again this goes back to my theory that the majority of people aren't any more religious than I am, but fear being outcast by voicing their true beliefs. I honestly don't care what people think of my views as long as they respect my right to have them. I'm not finding "fault" with religion. I just don't believe in it, what it stands for, and the influence it has over our every day lives. Yes, I would love to see that legislation repealed, but I don't see any way it will happen.
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Old September 29th, 2006, 12:27 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveKerwin
So when you got o family partie4s, do you get drawn into prayers prayed in Jesus' name? Does anyone guilt you for not being saved? Is there perhaps even an elitist attitude?

Dude, I get frustrated by THE SAME plagues of the christian faith that you do. I am not in support of the super hypocrites out there either. But you have made the mistake of trying to fault God by highlihgting his people's sins. If you want to understand God more, then look to God himself, not public wackos. If you wanted to understand the airline industry, you would look at the balance sheet of american airlines or the ideologies of the CEO, you would not just study planes that crash (which is the equivalent of what you are doing in matter of faith). Believe it or not, some christians out there are bettering the world, loving their neighbors, caring for widows, paying people's mortgages when they lost their job, etc.

Remember, the jerk at your work who womanizes, he is the one who knows how messed up he is , and how badly he needs God. Whether or not he allows God to change him fully is another matter. You see, the sin nature of mankind does not disapprear when one says they believe, they remian sinners, but they receive forgiveness. Sure, the jerk ought to straighten out his life, but he will never be perfect, neither will I, neither will you. You may not have as many overt problems as that guy, but you got problems/sins just like me. The amount of your imperfection does not matter, but the penalty of that sin is what matters.
My parents had 5 kids. 1 of whom became "born again", 2 who still attend Catholic mass almost every weekend, and 2 who don't care much for religion (me being one of them).

If my mom didn't watch my nephew every day, she would go to mass every morning. She has NEVER missed a Sunday mass.

With the thousands of hours she has spent praying, her life has not been the easiest. She credits all of the good things in her life to God, and the bad things as God's will. I credit all her good things in life to working her ass off to make sure we had a good upbringing, and taking responsibility for herself. The bad things are all just shitty luck.

I am not blaming God of anything. How can I place blame on someone/something I'm not even sure exists?

The more I see people use God as an excuse for their laziness/criminal activity, the more I see God as a scapegoat, rather than a reality.

The more I see people give God credit for their successes in life, the more I think about the people who don't believe, yet achieve the same successes. The most logical answer is that everyone has the same possible conclusions in life. Some choose to work hard. Some choose to be lazy. Some have good luck, and some don't. It's that simple.

That's the most logical answer to me. I don't need to spend a few hours every Sunday to try to change my mind. I like the way I think right now.
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Old September 29th, 2006, 01:09 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by mikesova
"if i'm wrong..." uh oh you're questioning your choice, now can you say you're a 100% believer?

also, what's wrong with taking religion seriously?
That statement was more for you then me, but yeah, I never said I was perfect, and I do struggle with my faith, like everybody else..........but my Jesus allows for that.

Why don't you just admit that you hate Christians, and you think they should all die! Then you can join your friends in other countries and conspire to kill more of us..............Right now I don't know who is worse, someone who hates Christians who doesn't know them, or someone like you who grew up in this country and has had the advantages and chance to work and live with Bible believers, and has this sort of hatred towards them.
For Goodness Sakes dude! What have I done to make you hate me this much? Tell me, and I will try to correct it........if it is just that I believe in Christianity, I'm sorry but I plan on staying a Christian.

Last edited by FORD FLARESIDE; September 29th, 2006 at 01:23 PM.
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Old September 29th, 2006, 01:21 PM   #108
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I hope you don't mind my challenging you, as I don't mind your challenges for me.
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Old September 29th, 2006, 02:05 PM   #109
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Ford, I don't think it's about hating christians as a whole. It's like hating people from the middle east. It's the extreme minority in the group that causes feelings towards the group as a whole. If I hated christians I would have never married my wife (that's another story). I hate the methods used by the extremists in the group to try to "convert" non-believers or differently thinking believers. I think if christians as a whole would just let others be and allow us to do our own research/think for ourselves and come to jesus if that's what we want it would all be fine and good. It's just that getting berated with religion when you are a non-believer makes you despise it (religion) even more.
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Old September 29th, 2006, 02:07 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveKerwin
I hope you don't mind my challenging you, as I don't mind your challenges for me.
If this is in reference to me, I do not mind at all. Debate is good. It makes you think about your beliefs. This will either result in making them stronger, or it will make you change your mind on something. Learning occurs through thinking, not doing.

"Great minds discuss ideas.
Average minds discuss events.
Simple minds discuss people."
- Can't remember who wrote this. But is one very profound statement.
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Old September 29th, 2006, 02:29 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by 84Scrambler
If this is in reference to me, I do not mind at all. Debate is good. It makes you think about your beliefs. This will either result in making them stronger, or it will make you change your mind on something. Learning occurs through thinking, not doing.

"Great minds discuss ideas.
Average minds discuss events.
Simple minds discuss people."
- Can't remember who wrote this. But is one very profound statement.
I meant it for you and cranky franky.

I am more than willing to continue discussion, but it seemed to hit a natuaral decline. I love debating too, so much that I have become a masturdebater.
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Old September 29th, 2006, 02:35 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by DaveKerwin
I have become a masturdebater.
I'll stick with being a cunning linguist
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Old September 29th, 2006, 02:38 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar
Sorry, but a catholic mass looks like a bunch of pre-programmed zombies reciting the correct answers in unison in response to key phrases said by the priest.

kinda like a bunch of guys in the middle of canada pulling in mudd holes and then pulling themselves out again........ (Some people would say thats worse then being a zombie) Guess it depends on what you enjoy in life and what you belive in.

We all have different back grounds and different ideas about these things. What great about it is that we have the right to do this.

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Old September 29th, 2006, 02:48 PM   #114
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I meant it for you and cranky franky.
If you met me in person, you would quickly understand I'm not really cranky. I've simply been force fed religion, and have developed significant opposition to the concept.

I have no problem with you. We simply do not think alike.
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Old September 29th, 2006, 03:04 PM   #115
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We all have different back grounds and different ideas about these things. What great about it is that we have the right to do this.
x2
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Old September 29th, 2006, 04:28 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by FORD FLARESIDE
That statement was more for you then me, but yeah, I never said I was perfect, and I do struggle with my faith, like everybody else..........but my Jesus allows for that.

Why don't you just admit that you hate Christians, and you think they should all die! Then you can join your friends in other countries and conspire to kill more of us..............Right now I don't know who is worse, someone who hates Christians who doesn't know them, or someone like you who grew up in this country and has had the advantages and chance to work and live with Bible believers, and has this sort of hatred towards them.
For Goodness Sakes dude! What have I done to make you hate me this much? Tell me, and I will try to correct it........if it is just that I believe in Christianity, I'm sorry but I plan on staying a Christian.
hahah, holy shit dude, take it easy, i never said I hated Christians...i'm just playing the devils advocate here in a discussion about religion. I also don't hate you personally.

I know that you think i'm treasonist because i don't like George Bush Jr., but I"m not conspiring to kill Christians and I don't hate America...holy crap...you went off the deepend.
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Old September 29th, 2006, 04:56 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by FrankNBrew
If you met me in person, you would quickly understand I'm not really cranky. I've simply been force fed religion, and have developed significant opposition to the concept.

I have no problem with you. We simply do not think alike.
Talk to the hand cranky franky! I'm convinced that you got an anti-god stick up your .. nevermind. You're prolly chilled otherwise :tonka:

I have no problem with you either, except for the fact that you rolled a perfectly fine jeep and you weren't wheeling. Other than that, I want to be your friend, best friend.
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Old September 29th, 2006, 05:19 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by mikesova
hahah, holy shit dude, take it easy, i never said I hated Christians...i'm just playing the devils advocate here in a discussion about religion. I also don't hate you personally.

I know that you think i'm treasonist because i don't like George Bush Jr., but I"m not conspiring to kill Christians and I don't hate America...holy crap...you went off the deepend.

You cant say I didn't warn you,.......sometimes I take things a little personal...and I believe I said that in a previous thead.............

Okay, I promised to pull myself together now,........its Friday and its time to have a . I will even drink one for you.
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Old September 30th, 2006, 09:43 AM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveKerwin
So when you got o family partie4s, do you get drawn into prayers prayed in Jesus' name? Does anyone guilt you for not being saved? Is there perhaps even an elitist attitude?

Dude, I get frustrated by THE SAME plagues of the christian faith that you do. I am not in support of the super hypocrites out there either. But you have made the mistake of trying to fault God by highlihgting his people's sins. If you want to understand God more, then look to God himself, not public wackos. If you wanted to understand the airline industry, you would look at the balance sheet of american airlines or the ideologies of the CEO, you would not just study planes that crash (which is the equivalent of what you are doing in matter of faith). Believe it or not, some christians out there are bettering the world, loving their neighbors, caring for widows, paying people's mortgages when they lost their job, etc.

Remember, the jerk at your work who womanizes, he is the one who knows how messed up he is , and how badly he needs God. Whether or not he allows God to change him fully is another matter. You see, the sin nature of mankind does not disapprear when one says they believe, they remian sinners, but they receive forgiveness. Sure, the jerk ought to straighten out his life, but he will never be perfect, neither will I, neither will you. You may not have as many overt problems as that guy, but you got problems/sins just like me. The amount of your imperfection does not matter, but the penalty of that sin is what matters.

Well-said, Dave.

Craig
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Old September 30th, 2006, 08:43 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by 84Scrambler
I take religion seriously. I take it seriously when religious views interfere with my ability and right to live my life. For example. My favorite anti-religious rant. It is bullshit that I can't walk into Meijer or any other store that sells alcohol and buy a 12-pack of Killians at 10am on a Sunday morning so I can go home and watch football, work in the yard, or whatever I want. But no. The religious people don't want to see people with alcohol during "church time" so they pushed the lawmakers to restrict the sale of alcohol on Sundays. When I worked a rotating 12 hour shift, Sunday was just another work day of the week to me. When I got off shift at 7am, I should have had the right to go buy a beer if I wanted, just like the other 6 days of the week. I understand having the overnight restrictions for the most part for public safety, but at 10am Sunday morning it's a different story. Your right to worship should not interfere in my right to live my life without interference from your religious beliefs.
Interesting that bothers you.....I'm a Christian and a Drunk, doesn't bother me I can't buy beer at 10am Sunday morning. :tonka:
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