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Old September 28th, 2006, 12:53 PM   #61
Dave Kerwin
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Originally Posted by 84Scrambler
I just don't get the whole thing about the Bible being "the truth" so to speak. The Bible as I understand it was put together by the early leaders of the church from a vast collection of writings that were available at the time. They selected certain works that fit what they believed to be the true word of God. I just don't buy it. Some drunk monk probably picked the wrong literary works. The real word of God could have actually said Eat, Drink, and be merry. But, that was in one of the books that never made it past the selection committee.
I really wanted to let this go, but I just can't! I'm a glutton for punishment!

Monks did not record the Bible, do your research. I will not unload on you thi stime, , but I will advise you that the real word of God does mention what you said, see Eccliesiastes 8:15 (but don't take outof context, lol)
"So I commended pleasure, for there is nothing good for a man under the sun except to eat and to drink and to be merry, and this will stand by him in his toils throughout the days of his life which God has given him under the sun."
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Old September 28th, 2006, 01:00 PM   #62
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So maybe it really said eat, drink, and be Mary. But the guy transcribing that page missed a couple letters. So, transgender issues may be holy? Sorry, that's more than just a little off the discussion track. LOL

Sorry Bio. I hope you didn't mistakenly visit their website. I have been tempted to sign up the guy I'm suing and have them send him some promotional material, but to the wrong addresses all over the town where he lives. :tonka:
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Old September 28th, 2006, 01:07 PM   #63
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Yeah I went there... on my work laptop no less... guess the IT guys will now look at me in a new light lol
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Old September 28th, 2006, 01:15 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by 84Scrambler
So maybe it really said eat, drink, and be Mary. But the guy transcribing that page missed a couple letters. So, transgender issues may be holy? Sorry, that's more than just a little off the discussion track. LOL
True that, the text may have originally have read: eat, drink, and be gay like Bill.

The world may never know.

BUT... if you have any real interest in know the truth behidn bible translations and multiplications, you woudl be surprized by its accuracy, seriously. But yeah, off topic, I can't even follow my own critiques of others, I am a hypocrite, :cry:
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Old September 28th, 2006, 01:21 PM   #65
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That is the reason there are Missionaries. We believe that God is the only God and in the end if you don't believe in them then you are bound to Hell. Great works will be performed close to the end of time in hopes to open the eyes of all to the one true GOD.
that's bullshit. So, you're supposed to stop believing what you've been believing your entire life because Father Guido Sarducci tells you its wrong? So in essence , you making it to heaven is based on how good a negotiator Guido is? nope, not buying it.

But in the same light, what if the Buddhist or Hinduist, or whatever sent their missionaries to you, to convert you, how do you know that you're right and they are wrong? It's all a little too fishy to me.
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Old September 28th, 2006, 01:39 PM   #66
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It's all a little too fishy to me.
Stop smelling your finger. Anyway, I think you have the same questions I do regarding religion. So many that say their way is the only way...how do you choose if they all believe they are correct?
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Old September 28th, 2006, 01:42 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by ScOoTeR
Stop smelling your finger. Anyway, I think you have the same questions I do regarding religion. So many that say their way is the only way...how do you choose if they all believe they are correct?
Choose the mormons.

Yes, Mormon was the correct answer..
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Old September 28th, 2006, 02:10 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by ScOoTeR
Stop smelling your finger. Anyway, I think you have the same questions I do regarding religion. So many that say their way is the only way...how do you choose if they all believe they are correct?
You do whatever your wife tells you to do. Thats what a man is supposed to do. Obviously I have to talk to her because you arent trained well enough yet. :miff:
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Old September 28th, 2006, 02:39 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by DaveKerwin
Mike, I believe that God holds everyone accountable to the knowledge they have had. I believe that God makes himself known for who he is, and gives folks opportunity to believe. If someone was not in his radar for some reason, I would imagine that God would treat them in a manor consistant with his nature which is expressed in the Bible. So to answer your qeustion directly, I am not sure. But I do know that Jesus said he is the only way to heaven. What happens outside of that is between that person and God.
Dave,

Now I have a question. If god holds everyone accountable for their knowledge and folks in other religions may have never heard of jesus or your god or christianity as a whole then according to my logic these people would be fine in the afterlife. Sure there wouldn't be any pearly gates but no eternal damnation either (limbo maybe). So why must christians send out missionaries to preach the word of god and ensure that these people who have been brought up with other beliefs be eternally damned according to the teachings of your bible. Why even try to make them accept jesus christ as their savior seeing as most would never renounce their known religion for yours? It makes no sense to me.
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Old September 28th, 2006, 02:48 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by ScOoTeR
So many that say their way is the only way...how do you choose if they all believe they are correct?
Frist, you have to acknowledge that all of them cannot be true and ask what the real deal is. Opposing ideologies cannot both be true at the same time, it is logically impossible. So if only one can be true, which is it?

Second, you have to determine who made the god claim and if they backed their claim up. If I told you right now that I was god, I hope you laugh in my face if I show no real signs, and have no way to back it up (obviously I will not claim that, but I am sure you get the point). So basically, you need to know who made the claim, and if there is reason to believe. If there is not, do not belive. If there is, dig deper, and when the truth is revealed, get on board 100%. I think that intellectual scrutiny will lead you to the empty tomb of Jesus Christ.
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Old September 28th, 2006, 04:21 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by artistic_gore
Dave,

Now I have a question. If god holds everyone accountable for their knowledge and folks in other religions may have never heard of jesus or your god or christianity as a whole then according to my logic these people would be fine in the afterlife. Sure there wouldn't be any pearly gates but no eternal damnation either (limbo maybe). So why must christians send out missionaries to preach the word of god and ensure that these people who have been brought up with other beliefs be eternally damned according to the teachings of your bible. Why even try to make them accept jesus christ as their savior seeing as most would never renounce their known religion for yours? It makes no sense to me.
According to the Bible, there is heaven, and there is hell, no middle place. Jesus has said that he is the way, the truth, and the life, and that no man gets to God the Father unless it is through him. So he is making a very exclusive claim. Like it was discussed before, did he back that claim up?

So Jesus said he is the ONLY way, so what does that mean for people of other faiths? My interpretation is that if they know of Jesus and deny him, then they will not be in Jesus' Kingdom. But if someone never heard of Jesus, then I have no idea what their eternal future would be. The only thing I CAN say in that circumstance is that God is the judge, and he will rule justly. But some adhere to the philosophy that everyone knows who God is, in their heart, not necessarily through spoken word. So it can be confusing, but it should be noted that Jesus has made the requirements both firm and understood. He claimed to be God incarnate, he did some pretty awesome stuff, and he invited everyone to participate, having the ability to gain forgiveness of sins and eternal life, simply by faith. So he is not saying that only a few are invited to the party, he gave an open invite and a loose requirement, but the requirement is not substitutable. Am I rambling yet?
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Old September 28th, 2006, 06:11 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by DaveKerwin
Frist, you have to acknowledge that all of them cannot be true and ask what the real deal is. Opposing ideologies cannot both be true at the same time, it is logically impossible. So if only one can be true, which is it?

Second, you have to determine who made the god claim and if they backed their claim up. If I told you right now that I was god, I hope you laugh in my face if I show no real signs, and have no way to back it up (obviously I will not claim that, but I am sure you get the point). So basically, you need to know who made the claim, and if there is reason to believe. If there is not, do not belive. If there is, dig deper, and when the truth is revealed, get on board 100%. I think that intellectual scrutiny will lead you to the empty tomb of Jesus Christ.
So you are basically playing a game of chance then, believe in this one until you die and you could find out that it was Buddha all along!
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Old September 28th, 2006, 06:27 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by DaveKerwin
Frist, you have to acknowledge that all of them cannot be true and ask what the real deal is. Opposing ideologies cannot both be true at the same time, it is logically impossible. So if only one can be true, which is it?
I disagree here as well. You assume that one religion has been able to secure all the right information. Why is it that most all religions share the same underlying stories through history? Deep down they are all attempting to decipher and understand the same things in this world. This is why they all surround many of the same central themes. Just somewhere in the past someone decided that there absoultely MUST be this all powerful single figure that put all of this together. This was the only theory that could explain what they could not understand so that they felt better about the world. People fear the unknown. By making up this story about some old lovey dovey grandpa looking guy with the power to create the universe, it made them all warm and fuzzy and were no longer "scared of the dark".
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Old September 28th, 2006, 07:02 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by mikesova
So you are basically playing a game of chance then, believe in this one until you die and you could find out that it was Buddha all along!
You can call it a game of chance if you want. But tell me... Did Buddah ever say he was a god? Did he ask us to follow him? Is there ANY good reason to follow him? Did he show evidence that he was divine?

I'll entertain the game of chance analogy this way: If you are playing poker and you got a royal flush, then bet the ranch man, bet the ranch! But if you got a pair of two's... yer gonna lose.

My encouragement for you and anyone else is to investigate the claims, and only trust the one who backed it up. Don't follow something that is based on nothing.
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Old September 28th, 2006, 07:06 PM   #75
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Other religions aren't based on nothing, they're based on books just like christianity. And you can verify historical facts in those books just like you can in the bible.

FYI: I'm investigating in my own way, I am reading the bible. The two or three versions that I am aware of, as well as the book of mormon, the quran and books against religion to see what I agree with. I am sure that there are many other religios texts to read but these are the ones I own currently.

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Old September 28th, 2006, 07:09 PM   #76
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I disagree here as well. You assume that one religion has been able to secure all the right information. Why is it that most all religions share the same underlying stories through history? Deep down they are all attempting to decipher and understand the same things in this world. This is why they all surround many of the same central themes. Just somewhere in the past someone decided that there absoultely MUST be this all powerful single figure that put all of this together. This was the only theory that could explain what they could not understand so that they felt better about the world. People fear the unknown. By making up this story about some old lovey dovey grandpa looking guy with the power to create the universe, it made them all warm and fuzzy and were no longer "scared of the dark".
I don't see exactly where you disagre. And I disagree with your statment that they are all the same. Can you explain that better? I know there are some commonalities like the idea that God is existant and has a solution for us. But I don't see a likeness to the Christian faith (besides common roots to Judaism).

Lets liken this to our origins. Some say that we evolved, others say we were created. Some even say that God made us, THEN we evolved. But SURELY all three origin accounts cannot all be true at the same time. The underlying reality is that only ONE of them is true. ANYONE would agree to this!! But where we will disagree is the exact method that we came to exist. So... in terms of whether or not God exists, and who he actually is... the same principle is in play. Assuming God is out there, is he the Allah according to Muhammad? Is he God the Father according to Jesus? Is he you according to postmodern teachings? If you are in an agnostic camp, then you know God is out there, but you are not sure WHO he is. Well.. I propose to you that he is not everything, because they disagree with each other. God cannot be Jesus and Buddah at the same time, because Jesus says he is not Buddah. So what is the REAL truth????????????? I believe that if we look at the claim and the result we will know the real truth. And like I said, if you do a thorough investigation, I believe you will be left staring into the empty tomb of Christ.
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Old September 28th, 2006, 07:12 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by artistic_gore
Other religions aren't based on nothing, they're based on books just like christianity. And you can verify historical facts in those books just like you can in the bible.

FYI: I'm investigating in my own way, I am reading the bible. The two or three versions that I am aware of, as well as the book of mormon, the quran and books against religion to see what I agree with. I am sure that there are many other religios texts to read but these are the ones I own currently.
I never said there were based on nothing, but what I am saying is that they are not backed up the same way Christianity is.

Dude, you are awesome. I applaud you for going as far as reading and investigating, much respect for ya. I wish you the best in your spiritual journey, and I pray you find the bottom line truth, which ever it actually is
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Old September 28th, 2006, 07:46 PM   #78
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You can call it a game of chance if you want. But tell me... Did Buddah ever say he was a god? Did he ask us to follow him? Is there ANY good reason to follow him? Did he show evidence that he was divine?

I'll entertain the game of chance analogy this way: If you are playing poker and you got a royal flush, then bet the ranch man, bet the ranch! But if you got a pair of two's... yer gonna lose.

My encouragement for you and anyone else is to investigate the claims, and only trust the one who backed it up. Don't follow something that is based on nothing.
So God told you he was god and asked you to follow him? Or did you just read it in that book? If you believe everything you read...
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Old September 28th, 2006, 08:35 PM   #79
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And like I said, if you do a thorough investigation, I believe you will be left staring into the empty tomb of Christ.
I guess that is what this "faith" that you refer to is about. You see an empty tomb of Christ. I see an empty hole in the side of a hill some guy was put in and somehow was removed from nearly 2000 years ago. Yet we are supposed to believe that all of the facts of that single 24 hour period were somehow able to survive nearly 2000 years. It is rare that anyone can remember all of the details of an event just 20 years ago they personally witnessed. Yet this story has gone through 20 centuries?
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Old September 28th, 2006, 08:54 PM   #80
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I guess that is what this "faith" that you refer to is about. You see an empty tomb of Christ. I see an empty hole in the side of a hill some guy was put in and somehow was removed from nearly 2000 years ago. Yet we are supposed to believe that all of the facts of that single 24 hour period were somehow able to survive nearly 2000 years. It is rare that anyone can remember all of the details of an event just 20 years ago they personally witnessed. Yet this story has gone through 20 centuries?
Isn't that something worth investigating in and of itself? The fact that this "tale" still causes this kind of discussion 2000 years later is interesting.

You've got a book, the Old Testament, (actually a library) that was established and accepted before Jesus' time, that predicted his birth, death and resurrection. Check that out and see what you learn.
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