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Old September 26th, 2006, 03:38 PM   #1
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:dunie: Sounds like fun..

POSTED: 9:08 am EDT September 26, 2006


LOS ANGELES -- The new documentary "Jesus Camp" is shocking Christians and non-Christians alike with its scenes of children sobbing and crying out to God at a Pentecostal summer camp in North Dakota.

The film follows Midwestern children Rachael, now 10, Levi, now 13, and Tory, now 11, who attended Fischer's Bible camp in Devils Lake, N.D., in 2005, according to the Los Angeles Times.


Filmmaker Heidi Ewing said she was raised Catholic and her co-director, Rachel Grady, is Jewish, enabling them to present what they hope is a neutral view of Pastor Becky Fischer's "Kids on Fire" program.

Grady said Fischer let them make the documentary in hopes of reaching unsaved people.

In the film, the children cheered when asked if they'd be willing to give up their lives for Jesus, prayed over a cardboard cutout of President George W. Bush and cried as they pleaded for an end to abortion, the Los Angeles Times reported. The paper said that one of the children is home-schooled by a mother who teaches that "science doesn't prove anything."

Ewing said the children explained that they wept because God's heart is broken over a lost and sinful world. But she added that the children didn't seem unhappy -- just more intense than the average American child. Grady said all of the kids plan to become missionaries.

Some critics have labeled the camp a frightening example of brainwashing and child abuse.

"This is war! Are you part of it or not?," Fischer shouted at the children during the film.

Fischer proudly compared her Bible camp to indoctrination of young boys by extremist Muslims.

"If you look at the world's population, one third of that 6.7 billion people are children under the age of 15," Fischer said. "Where should we be putting our efforts? Where should we be putting our focus? I'll tell you where our enemies are putting it. They're putting it on the kids. They're going into the schools."

Fischer went on to say that Muslims in other countries are taking their kids to camps like "we take our kids" to bible camps. She said Muslims are teaching their kids to use rifles, how to put on bomb belts and to use machine guns.

"It's no wonder with that kind of intense training in discipling (sic) that those young people are ready to kill themselves for the cause of Islam," Fischer said. "I want to see young people who are as committed to the cause of Jesus Christ as the young people are to the cause of Islam. I want to see them as radically laying down their lives for the gospel as they are over in Pakistan and in Israel and Palestine and all those different places. Because we have, excuse me, but we have the truth."

The filmmakers told the Times that they want the film to "make a broad statement about how politics and faith have become inexorably intertwined in America."

Fischer said that she plans to help promote the movie and that she is grateful for the national attention she's gotten from the movie and its controversy.

"I couldn't have paid for this kind of advertising," she said.

In the About Film section of the movie's Web site, it describes the movie as follows:

A growing number of Evangelical Christians believe there is a revival underway in America that requires Christian youth to assume leadership roles in advocating the causes of their religious movement. Jesus Camp follows a group of young children to Pastor Becky Fischer's "Kids on Fire Summer Camp", where kids are taught to become dedicated Christian soldiers in God's army and are schooled in how to take back America for Christ. The film is a first-ever look into an intense training ground that recruits born-again Christian children to become an active part of America's political future.



"Jesus Camp" is already open in New York and will open in 20 more cities across the United States Oct. 6.
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Old September 26th, 2006, 03:42 PM   #2
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I read that and so what? I grew up in a very strict Christian family. My daily life was like Jesus camp. People have a right to teach their children their own beliefs. They have already taken religion out of the class and programming, is this what is next? It is not brainwashing or child abuse.
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Old September 26th, 2006, 03:56 PM   #3
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Jesus Camp at Devils Lake, N.D.
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Old September 26th, 2006, 03:57 PM   #4
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. . . . and then we grow up, get married and attend Promise Keepers. It's not like this is new news.
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Old September 26th, 2006, 05:37 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kerryann
They have already taken religion out of the class and programming, is this what is next?
Do you disagree with that?
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Old September 26th, 2006, 07:49 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kerryann
I read that and so what? I grew up in a very strict Christian family. My daily life was like Jesus camp. People have a right to teach their children their own beliefs. They have already taken religion out of the class and programming, is this what is next? It is not brainwashing or child abuse.
I grew up the same way, seriously. That is why my 2 sons have never been baptized and won't go to church unless they decide to make it part of thier lives.

Jesus camp isn't for my family but from the very brief reading I don't think it is abusive.
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Old September 26th, 2006, 07:54 PM   #7
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it is if the parents push them to beleive in a religion
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Old September 27th, 2006, 10:41 AM   #8
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I will push my religion on my children. I think that you teach your children your values but you allow them to develop their own as well. They will meet other people and see tons of crap I dont agree with in their lives. The one thing they will have is a knowledge of what their parents believe, and their grand parents believed. As a young adult I strayed from the way that I was raised. My family didnt disown me for thinking differently than I was raised. Now that I am older I see the logic in everything I was taught
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Old September 27th, 2006, 10:53 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kerryann
The one thing they will have is a knowledge of what their parents believe, and their grand parents believed.
Works for the KKK.

I'll have to take Patrick to see his great grandpa. He still wears his necklace of 'Jap Teeth' that he kicked out of dudes heads on Iwo Jima.
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Old September 27th, 2006, 11:05 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kerryann
I think that you teach your children your values but you allow them to develop their own as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar
I'll have to take Patrick to see his great grandpa. He still wears his necklace of 'Jap Teeth' that he kicked out of dudes heads on Iwo Jima.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar
I have two South Korean sisters, and I find you comments racist.
I bet your family reunions are fun as hell then lol...

Anyway, way to blow it out of context.... parents pass their values to their children, however the children have their own free will to accept or come up with their own values, however they should always know their roots.
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Old September 27th, 2006, 11:08 AM   #11
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have you seen the vids for it?
i cant find the one i was originally showed...but i found this one:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=y_EKHK1C2IE
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Old September 27th, 2006, 11:16 AM   #12
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I hope my kids are as disgusted by abortion as I am, but I have no plans on sending my daughter to jesus camp, well, unless she wanted to go. But I like other camps much better.

Surely I will teach her the way to live, who we owe our livelyhood to, adn the like. But my hopes is that she will have personal adherence to what is taugth to her. I will grow her up under the love of Jesus Christ, and it is my prayer that she will receive it and follow him. But to force her will not produce a faithful follower with any real love for God. She will need to develop that by seeing her Daddy love Jesus, and by accepting his love on her won.
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Old September 27th, 2006, 11:26 AM   #13
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Howdy Dave....

:)
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Old September 27th, 2006, 11:31 AM   #14
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Old September 27th, 2006, 11:39 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biohazardbill
I bet your family reunions are fun as hell then lol...

Anyway, way to blow it out of context.... parents pass their values to their children, however the children have their own free will to accept or come up with their own values, however they should always know their roots.
Different sides of the family. But it was fun when the gay cousin brought his boyfriend to christmans to officially come-out to the family:tonka:

Not out of context. 'Pushing' your religion/beliefs on your kids is why little Jews grow up to hate muslims and vice versa, etc, etc, etc.

Sadly, for something that has such high morals at its center, religion is by far the biggest breeding ground for hated, murder, war, and all-purpose atrocities throughout history and no end in sight. Not to say that is the intention, but the end result.

The question, is whether a camp, such as the one featured, is taking allowing children to learn/explore, or being force fed.
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Old September 27th, 2006, 11:45 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Haggar
Sadly, for something that has such high morals at its center, religion is by far the biggest breeding ground for hated, murder, war, and all-purpose atrocities throughout history and no end in sight. Not to say that is the intention, but the end result.
From what I read in the first post, I took it as Jesus Camp was based on Christianity which does not have an eye for an eye mentality since its conversion to the new testament. So the beliefs they are pushing are not hate induced at all...
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Old September 27th, 2006, 11:53 AM   #17
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Oh, yes, I forgot, christan poo doesn't stink.
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Old September 27th, 2006, 11:58 AM   #18
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Oh, yes, I forgot, christan poo doesn't stink.
Duh, didn't you know Jesus , Christianity is the RIGHT religion. Everybody else is just fooling themselves.

I checked out that video and saw this one, kind of funny. I hate the religious right. http://youtube.com/watch?v=NxJwQ63WS...elated&search=
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Old September 27th, 2006, 12:03 PM   #19
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I didnt say it didnt stink... all poo stinks.... I just said Christianity does not preach hate...

way to try and twist things again...

and noone said Christianity is for everyone either... that is why there is "free will"

People have the right to choose whatever beliefs they have.
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Old September 27th, 2006, 12:26 PM   #20
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I didnt say it didnt stink... all poo stinks.... I just said Christianity does not preach hate...

way to try and twist things again...

and noone said Christianity is for everyone either... that is why there is "free will"

People have the right to choose whatever beliefs they have.
Pretty much no major real religion preaches hate. However, there are hate groups that perpetrate crimes in the name of religion, all religions. The afforementioned Ku Klux Klan is one of them. Radical islamic groups, the religious conflicts in Ireland, Bosnia, WWII, the Americas during colonialism.

And children really don't have a choice, not at that age. 10 year old kids developing a stance on abortion is a good example. There are major major major factors in that discussion that are far beyond a kid to understand the complexity of that situation.
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