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Old September 25th, 2006, 09:41 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by cmujeeper
Dude, did you just say that mass graves were fucking awesome????


I still don't think it was our job to take Sadam out of power. His own people could have done that . . . it's called coup and it's happened to 1,000s of nation states in the past and one in thailand right now.

We, the US called it a revolution.


And all battered children should be able to grow up and take care of it themselves also.
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Old September 25th, 2006, 09:46 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Miffy
And all battered children should be able to grow up and take care of it themselves also.
I didn't say it was right but I don't think it is our job to take the action . . .

and please don't tell me that you guys really give a rats ass about those people over there.

And please say "of course we do" so I can say . . "Hey, I"m the bleeding heart liberal and I don't care so I KNOW you don't care"
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Old September 25th, 2006, 10:07 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by cmujeeper
I didn't say it was right but I don't think it is our job to take the action . . .

and please don't tell me that you guys really give a rats ass about those people over there.

And please say "of course we do" so I can say . . "Hey, I"m the bleeding heart liberal and I don't care so I KNOW you don't care"
I wasnt loosing sleep over it but i dont like anyone or anything to needlessly suffer i dont even like watching the animal planet animal cops shows cause of how sick some folks are a how poorly there treat their critters. I dont want anyone to have to suffer needlessly. Its one thing if your region is dry from nature like some parts of africa, its another if the populous is disarmed and ethnic cleansing is going on and machet weilding troops hopped up on drugs come in the night and kill whole villages. Your a true sicko if your ok with that. Saddam was toturing people. We tried sanctions but other countries like syrian anf france were helping him move his oil. What was your solution ?!

I know we cant stop the 100 or so armed conflicts going on in the world at any one moment, but your ignorant if you think we shouldnt try to intervene in stragetic areas. Before you get all preachy everyone does it to the best they can afford. One of the most annoying things about a liberal like yourself is you want us to handicap ourselves. Damn near every country on earth has spies working to further their countries agenda. Get your head out of the clouds, if half the countires had an army 1/10 as strong as michigans deer hunters there would be allot more wars. Most of the world is a bunch of dirt ass dirt poor dirt farmers who cant feed their own people, much less care about iraq.
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Old September 25th, 2006, 10:10 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by cmujeeper
I didn't say it was right but I don't think it is our job to take the action . . .

and please don't tell me that you guys really give a rats ass about those people over there.

And please say "of course we do" so I can say . . "Hey, I"m the bleeding heart liberal and I don't care so I KNOW you don't care"

What I care about is terror. The fact is Saddam supported terror with money if nothing else. That is reason enough for me.http://www.discoverthenetwork.org/in...asp?indid=1344
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Old September 25th, 2006, 10:15 PM   #25
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We are handicapping ourselves by spending resources in Iraq instead of here in the US. Have you seen the Gulf Coast? Have you seen most intercity Gettos?

So your telling me that we should help the Iraqis instead of taking care of our own first?

I'm still trying to figure out that logic.

But anywho. I guess the you shouldn't make a political statement in the way that picture of Bush was made but it does make a very good statment.

And with that I'm out of this topic. . . . have fun beating it to death
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Old September 25th, 2006, 10:34 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by cmujeeper
We are handicapping ourselves by spending resources in Iraq instead of here in the US. Have you seen the Gulf Coast? Have you seen most intercity Gettos?
yes i have seen the coast, tell me where in the constitution it says build your house in a flood plain is guaranteed a new house in less than a year Yes i have been to the ghetto hundreds of times.

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Originally Posted by cmujeeper
So your telling me that we should help the Iraqis instead of taking care of our own first?
Preventative, the radical muslims are out of control. They arent going away any time soon and i havent heard a better solution from you. Sounds like we should jsut burry our head in the sand and pretend they dont hate us simply becuase we are christians.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmujeeper
I'm still trying to figure out that logic.
not surprising, its not one of your best skills

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmujeeper
But anywho. I guess the you shouldn't make a political statement in the way that picture of Bush was made but it does make a very good statment.

And with that I'm out of this topic. . . . have fun beating it to death
well thanks for asking questions then leaving so you dont have to answer in response. Very mature. While your taking a break from reality try reading the consitution, section 4 of article 4 says " the untied states shall guarantee to every state in this union a republican form of government, and shall protect each of them against INVASION; and on application of the legislature, or of the executive (when the legislautre cannot be convened) against domestic violence.

Ill spell it out for you... they dont mean domestic violence like beating your wife, they mean domestic violence like muslim radical extremists and terrorists. It says PROTECT not react after we get dirty bombed a half dozen times. :tonka:
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Old September 25th, 2006, 10:46 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by cmujeeper
It was cleaver way of putting their pictures together to form the picture of the guy that put them in the situation to die for what many (minority on this site) think is a pointless war.

I don't believe it trivializes thier deaths but just shines a light on the man that will be held through out history as the reason for the deaths.
I served, and I would come back from the dead and haunt the person who made this if I were in it. I think it's sick and wrong to use the image of someone who may not feel the same way as the person using the image. I never felt that the president was the cause of any deaths that I saw. It was our job, we joined and knew what we were getting into. Sometimes we didn't understand why we were doing some things...but it wasn't our job to figure that our....we had a job to do and we did it.
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Old September 25th, 2006, 10:46 PM   #28
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I agree that Saddam was bad and that it's good that he's no longer in power. But I was not in favor of going after him in the first Iraq war, and was not in favor of the second Iraq war because I expected the outcome to be exactly what were seeing now, a country on the brink of civil war, suicide bombers, insurgents fighting us every step of the way, approval of the war dropping both here and abroad, and no easy way out.

My perdiction for the future? Over the next 2 years the Bush administaration will come under increased pressure to finnish and get out before his term is up. As a result they will push the Iraqi government to take over increased responsibilities that ithey are not ready to handle, just to be able to call the war a sucsess. The next president will have won largely as a result of promising to get us out of Iraq and will start pulling out as soon as possible while trying to assure the US and the world that the Iraqis can handle it. Whatever government we leave in place will make it no more than 2 years, probably less than one, before falling to some one or some group that will be worse than Saddam.

Not a rosy picture but i just don't see it going any other way.
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Old September 25th, 2006, 10:46 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmujeeper
It was cleaver way of putting their pictures together to form the picture of the guy that put them in the situation to die for what many (minority on this site) think is a pointless war.

I don't believe it trivializes thier deaths but just shines a light on the man that will be held through out history as the reason for the deaths.
I served, and I would come back from the dead and haunt the person who made this if I were in it. I think it's sick and wrong to use the image of someone who may not feel the same way as the person using the image. I never felt that the president was the cause of any deaths that I saw. It was our job, we joined and knew what we were getting into. Sometimes we didn't understand why we were doing some things...but it wasn't our job to figure that our....we had a job to do and we did it.
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Old September 25th, 2006, 11:49 PM   #30
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Liberal spin! w00t!


No mass graves are not awesome (unless they're filled with you and all of your liberal friends).

The awesome part was how that picture of Bush was PERFECTLY countered.
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Old September 26th, 2006, 07:45 AM   #31
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I do find it ironic that many liberals will support programs like welfare and social security to the to the bitter end because they assist those who cannot assist themselves (sometimes). However, when hundreds of thousands of people are being murdered by their evil dictator and cannot protect themselves, they say, "its not our problem".

No such thing as a true bleeding heart liberal. If there were, they would throw their full support in behind what we are doing in Iraq.

That is the true mark of greatness. To use your power to help those who have none.

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Old September 26th, 2006, 03:46 PM   #32
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Old September 26th, 2006, 04:07 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by 87'YJ
I do find it ironic that many liberals will support programs like welfare and social security to the to the bitter end because they assist those who cannot assist themselves (sometimes). However, when hundreds of thousands of people are being murdered by their evil dictator and cannot protect themselves, they say, "its not our problem".

No such thing as a true bleeding heart liberal. If there were, they would throw their full support in behind what we are doing in Iraq.

That is the true mark of greatness. To use your power to help those who have none.

Same reason when clinton send troops to i belive 10 conflicts in his term it was not offensive cause it was humanitarian. The fact that in 15 years we mihgt see stabilization of the oil market from a free democratic Iraq and our economy (and the world economy also but forget that) might benefit we are bad. If we sent troops to bosnia, haitai, sierra leone, ethopia, somalia etc there is no economic benefit. Its self loathing america haters. We cant do anything even humanitarian if it benefits us in comming decades. They want us to fail. The same folks were offended when we withdrew from kyoto accord, they want america to handicap our industry and let third world and emerging countries pollute like a mofo. Thats ok cause they are poor :miff: :stan3: We need to handicap our industry, god damn commies in sheeps clothing.
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Old September 26th, 2006, 04:23 PM   #34
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Same reason when clinton send troops to i belive 10 conflicts in his term it was not offensive cause it was humanitarian. The fact that in 15 years we mihgt see stabilization of the oil market from a free democratic Iraq and our economy (and the world economy also but forget that) might benefit we are bad. If we sent troops to bosnia, haitai, sierra leone, ethopia, somalia etc there is no economic benefit. Its self loathing america haters. We cant do anything even humanitarian if it benefits us in comming decades. They want us to fail. The same folks were offended when we withdrew from kyoto accord, they want america to handicap our industry and let third world and emerging countries pollute like a mofo. Thats ok cause they are poor :miff: :stan3: We need to handicap our industry, god damn commies in sheeps clothing.
I like oil
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Old October 1st, 2006, 05:30 PM   #35
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I love how this whole Iraq war is all George Bush's personal doing. When are they making the posters of the Vietnam casulties that form JFK and LBJ's faces? Or WW2 and FDR? Korea and Truman?

Here's a thought:

So far, I beleive something in the neighborhood of 2700 U.S. servicepeople have died in Iraq (or the entire "war on terrorism" including Afghanistan, it's unclear). A tragedy for each and every family, without a doubt.

In 36 days of battle on Iwo Jima, 6821 Americans died.- over 2400 on the first day alone. Over 1000 died in "mopping up" activities after Secreatary of the Navy Forrestal visited the island and declared the island "secured".

Just over 1000 of the 21,000 Japanese defenders surrendered or were captured (the rest died).

Iwo Jima is (and was) an 8.5 sqaure mile, uninhabited (other than the defending Japanese troops) wasteland, valuble only as a forward airbase to provide fighter coverage for US bombing raids against the Japanese mainland.

My point?

War sucks. In war, people die - and if things go right, more of "them" die than "us".

What really disturbs me is this: apparently, it was perfectly OK (well, "acceptable" or even "heroic") for 6800-plus US servicemen to die for a chunk of volcanic rock in the Pacific that did not of itself have intrinsic or economic value. However, it's different when 2700 US servicepeople die lover a period of several years while liberating an entire country? Year 2006 people are more valuble than 1940s people?

I don't think that US citizens in the 1940s cared less about people under arms than people today. The Japanese had no intention to invade the US - they just wanted a free hand in Asia. However, folks in the 1940s were able to see past partisan politics, and see Japan for the threat it was - just like Iraq was.
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Old October 1st, 2006, 06:06 PM   #36
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I'm currently serving, been to Iraq 3 times (not including the trip to Kuwait in '90), been to East Timor and done MANY humanitarian missions (some which included combat duties) throughout the world. I'll type slowly for the mentally inept. You can even read it twice. This is THE bottom line, like it or not.



It's not whether or not the U.S. WANTS to send troops to Iraq, or WANTS to send troops to Afghanistan or Kenya or any other place that asks... it's our DUTY to do so. You may disagree with it, you may tell me I'm full of it, but that is just the way it is. Our place as a world leader, not only economically, but militarily and industrially, places an inherent RESPONSIBILITY (take your time it's a big word) on our nation. I am not so arrogant to believe that I am privvy to all the information that the leader of the most powerful nation on earth is privvy to. The decision to "go" or "not go" is not something that I question with the knowledge I can get from the Communist News Network (aka CNN) or fukc 's News Network (aka: Fox). Preach and rant all you want, but I'll go back again if I'm told I'm needed before I retire. I know that even though I've taken a lot of lives in the process, we've saved countess more by going. The Marines, Soldiers, Sailors and Airmen represented in that picture would probably kick the crap out of you for using their likeness for propaganda. My mom would be very pissed if I died over there, so I understand the anger and lashing out by families of fallen brothers. But I've made it very clear to her that I know why we are there, I've seen the gratitude in the tearful eyes of a father knowing his daughters will never again be taken from thier home in the middle of the night, raped and killed with no possible hope for justice.

I respect your right to disagree with me, but don't tell me there is no point for this war. I've seen what our efforts have given the good honest people of Iraq & Afghanistan. War is a living animal, you cannot predict which way it will turn or lead you. However, you need to have the intestinal fortitude to see it through to the end, and our president has that fortitude. And our armed forces stand behind him. Yes, there are a few whiny little momma's boys in the military that preach about how they're against the war (which will get you kicked out by the way). But they're the self-centered ones, scared of becoming a statistic. To serve honorably, you need to have an understanding that you are not the "most special person ever", and understand that you serve a higher purpose.

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Old October 1st, 2006, 07:54 PM   #37
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wow i am tired? read most of this, not all..so take my response for what it is..

my thoughts,

since when is war not ugly...the cost of war is life, some of us volunteer this life we are given some dont..thats your/their choice...free will..for the most part...

Bush this and Bush that..it takes Congress to wage war...why not rag on your state rep's and congress person for allowing this to go on?

consider the line of people that veiwed the intelligence given to the Pres..before we invaded iraq...you would be stupid to think that those people privy to that material didnt twist and turn it to fit a certain agenda..we call it human error..or something to that effect..Bush only saw what "certain" people wanted him to see..i am willing to bet you would have made a similar decision..again use your head..where is congress in all of this? think people..Bush is the figure head of this country, we are not a fascist nation as mikesova's avatar would lead one to believe (and yes mike as a German, i take offense to that avi, it is disrespectful if you ask me, but you didnt so whos gives a rats ass right?. its the american way)

i am so tired of dealing with this mentality that its alright to utilize fallen Troops pictures and stores to advance a given agenda..be it republican, democrat or lazy fat ass with nothing to do...i guess it's best summed up in this poem...i have known this poem for a long time..so here it is..it fits my thoughts best..i guess..see next post...

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Old October 1st, 2006, 07:56 PM   #38
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War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature, and has no chance of being free unless made or kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.
–John Stuart Mill–
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Old October 1st, 2006, 09:07 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by cmujeeper
I still don't think it was our job to take Sadam out of power. His own people could have done that . . . it's called coup and it's happened to 1,000s of nation states in the past and one in thailand right now.

We, the US called it a revolution.
X2 and I wish the french would never have interfered in the american revolution. God save the queen!
Dipshit.

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Old October 1st, 2006, 11:12 PM   #40
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X2 and I wish the french would never have interfered in the american revolution. God save the queen!
Dipshit.
O was it the French that really wanted us free?? Really? From the text books I have read (I wasn't alive at the time) it was actually the future US that started the war and later the French helped out. . . what text books did you read??

If you need to read a history book I'm sure you could find one on the Revolutionary war at www.amazon.com. Try to brush up on your history before you post stuff like that.

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