9,9,9 - Page 2 - Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest

Go Back   Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat
GL4x4 Live! GL4x4 Casino

Politics, Government, or Religion Chat Bring your flamesuit!

greatlakes4x4.com is the premier Great Lakes 4x4 Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Search
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old October 13th, 2011, 10:57 PM   #21
danimal
IS IT JEEPIN TIME
 
danimal's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05-14-07
Location: saginaw michigan
Posts: 692
iTrader: (8)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Herman Cain's 999 Plan
Vision for Economic Growth
•The natural state of our economy is prosperity. Freedom ensures that.
•We must get the government off our backs, out of our pockets and out of our way in order to return to prosperity.
•Policy uncertainty is killing the economy.
Economic Guiding Principles
1.Production drives the economy, not spending.
◦We can not spend our way to prosperity.
◦Government spending IS taxation.
◦Government spending is like taking a bucket of water from the deep end of the pool, pouring it in the shallow end. Then they HOPE that the water level will CHANGE.
2.Risk taking drives growth .
◦Business formation and job creation are dependent on entrepreneurs taking risks.
◦Investors who fund those entrepreneurs likewise take risks.
3.Measurements must be dependable.
◦A dollar must always be a dollar just as an hour is always 60 minutes.
◦Sound money is crucial for prosperity.
We Must Unite Not Divide
•When one party seeks to spend so that the other party must focus on cutting, we must unite around economic growth.
•Unite all tax payers, don’t divide them into “income” tax payers vs. “payroll” tax payers.
•Unite those wanting to eliminate deductions with those seeking lower rates.
•As a first step, unite the “Flat-Taxers” with the “Fair-Taxers”
Economic Growth is the Key
•This is the worst recovery since the Depression.
•If the President’s goal was to tie for last place with the previous worst recovery, he failed by 6 million jobs.
•If we had a typical recovery, 13 million more Americans would be employed today.
•That means more tax revenue, less government spending and 13 million less people opposed to reasonable spending cuts.
•The Super Committee must deliver a robust growth solution.
•America can’t wait for 2012, we need growth NOW
Phase 1 - 9-9-9
•Current circumstances call for bolder action.
•The Phase 1 Enhanced Plan incorporates the features of Phase One and gets us a step closer to Phase two.
•I call on the Super Committee to pass the Phase 1 Enhanced Plan along with their spending cut package.
•The Phase 1 Enhanced Plan unites Flat Tax supporters with Fair tax supporters.
•Achieves the broadest possible tax base along with the lowest possible rate of 9%.
•It ends the Payroll Tax completely – a permanent holiday!
•Zero capital gains tax
•Ends the Death Tax.
•Eliminates double taxation of dividends
•Business Flat Tax – 9%
◦Gross income less all investments, all purchases from other businesses and all dividends paid to shareholders.
◦Empowerment Zones will offer additional deductions for payroll employed in the zone.
•Individual Flat Tax – 9%.
◦Gross income less charitable deductions.
◦Empowerment Zones will offer additional deductions for those living and/or working in the zone.
•National Sales Tax – 9%.
◦This gets the Fair Tax off the sidelines and into the game.
Phase 2 – The Fair Tax
•Amidst a backdrop of the economic boom created by the Phase 1 Enhanced Plan, I will begin the process of educating the American people on the benefits of continuing the next step to the Fair Tax.
•The Fair Tax would ultimately replace individual and corporate income taxes.
•It would make it possible to end the IRS as we know it.
•The Fair Tax makes our exported goods and services the most competitively internationally than any other tax system.
Phase 1 Enhanced Plan – Summary
•Unites all tax payers so we all pay income taxes and no one pays payroll taxes
•Provides the least incentive to evade taxes and the fewest opportunities to do so
•Lifts a $430 billion dead-weight burden on the economy due to compliance, enforcement, collection, etc.
•Is fair, neutral, transparent, and efficient
•Ends nearly all deductions and special interest favors
•Ends all payroll taxes
•Ends the Death Tax
•Features zero tax on capital gains and repatriated profits
•Lowest marginal rates on production
•Allows immediate expensing of business investments
•Eliminates double taxation of dividends
•Increases capital formation. Capital per worker drives productivity and wage growth
•Capital formation will aid capital availability for small businesses
•Features a platform to launch properly structured Empowerment Zones to revitalize our inner cities
•We all know the Fed has tripled the money supply since 2008. They have been printing money out of thin air to finance the Obama spending machine. While true Fed reform that restores sound money may have to wait for my election, the best thing we can do now is to pursue policies that increase the DEMAND for dollars to help mitigate the risks associated with the increase in the supply.
•Pro-growth economic policies equal a strong dollar policy
danimal is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old October 13th, 2011, 11:02 PM   #22
danimal
IS IT JEEPIN TIME
 
danimal's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05-14-07
Location: saginaw michigan
Posts: 692
iTrader: (8)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

hey Jim ...Cain / Gingrich 2012..... I like

I think that this would make for some interesting debates
danimal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2011, 03:47 AM   #23
BRUSER
Senior Member
 
BRUSER's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02-08-06
Location: WestSide Michigan
Posts: 1,329
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

I agree that any change in reducing the tax rates would be helpful to the economy. I look at the situation my mother in law is in, my F-I-L passed away last year. M-I-L has less income (lost his social security income) but has to pay more in taxes now. (lost the head of household rate on the taxes she lives alone but is not considered H-O-H).
When she passes, she will leave a considerable estate to her family. Her husband paid the taxes on the money when he made it, she pays the taxes on the money as she takes the gains to live on, and now the principal will be taxed at 50% because she passes.
I do not think the government is entitled to 1/2 of the money Ron made and saved during his life.
BRUSER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2011, 05:37 AM   #24
Suta99
Senior Member
 
Suta99's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-20-09
Location: Leamington/Ontario
Posts: 839
iTrader: (2)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BRUSER View Post
I agree that any change in reducing the tax rates would be helpful to the economy. I look at the situation my mother in law is in, my F-I-L passed away last year. M-I-L has less income (lost his social security income) but has to pay more in taxes now. (lost the head of household rate on the taxes she lives alone but is not considered H-O-H).
When she passes, she will leave a considerable estate to her family. Her husband paid the taxes on the money when he made it, she pays the taxes on the money as she takes the gains to live on, and now the principal will be taxed at 50% because she passes.
I do not think the government is entitled to 1/2 of the money Ron made and saved during his life.
go talk to a good accountant. there is ways around not paying 50%. just have to move the money around wisely.
Suta99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2011, 05:46 AM   #25
BRUSER
Senior Member
 
BRUSER's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02-08-06
Location: WestSide Michigan
Posts: 1,329
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suta99 View Post
go talk to a good accountant. there is ways around not paying 50%. just have to move the money around wisely.
Would be nice, however the numbers have been reviewed by some very high end CPA, Estate Planning, Investment advisors. Basiclly it is what it is at this point.
BRUSER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2011, 07:08 AM   #26
3-foot
Senior Member
 
3-foot's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-21-06
Location: Springfield Township, Mi
Posts: 1,121
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

I havent studied his plan in depth, but already I don't like the phase 1, phase 2 part of his plan. I can see them adding a national sales tax and then never taking away the existing taxes. A back door VAT tax. If you want to do a flat tax, then do a flat tax. If you want the fair tax, then propose the fair tax. Don't dick around, we've had enough of that already.
3-foot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2011, 07:22 AM   #27
kj kyle
Senior Member
 
kj kyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02-06-09
Location: SWMI
Posts: 2,200
iTrader: (11)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3-foot View Post
I havent studied his plan in depth, but already I don't like the phase 1, phase 2 part of his plan. I can see them adding a national sales tax and then never taking away the existing taxes. A back door VAT tax. If you want to do a flat tax, then do a flat tax. If you want the fair tax, then propose the fair tax. Don't dick around, we've had enough of that already.
you have 944 posts, and 943 of them are in the political forum. (and make a tad bit of sence.)

you sir, are on the wrong website
kj kyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2011, 08:58 AM   #28
brewmenn
Grumpy old man.
 
brewmenn's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Inkster, MI
Posts: 10,509
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BRUSER View Post
I agree that any change in reducing the tax rates would be helpful to the economy. I look at the situation my mother in law is in, my F-I-L passed away last year. M-I-L has less income (lost his social security income) but has to pay more in taxes now. (lost the head of household rate on the taxes she lives alone but is not considered H-O-H).
When she passes, she will leave a considerable estate to her family. Her husband paid the taxes on the money when he made it, she pays the taxes on the money as she takes the gains to live on, and now the principal will be taxed at 50% because she passes.
I do not think the government is entitled to 1/2 of the money Ron made and saved during his life.
A couple of things don't sound quite right here.

It varies some depending on her age, but if your M-I-L is above full retirement age she should have been able to continue to collect at her husbands rate as a surviving spouse.
It sucks about the H-O-H think. I've been there for the part 15 year and probably for the rest of my life.
And currently the estate tax is 35% over $5 million. The rate was last 50% in 2002. I'm not saying it's fair, but it's not 50% anymore.
brewmenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2011, 02:11 PM   #29
ovrlnd
HURL SCOUTS
 
ovrlnd's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-23-07
Location: Westland, Michigan
Posts: 10,003
iTrader: (14)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to ovrlnd
Default

I was on the cain train from the beginning. as far as income tax I would end up paying less with the 999 plan. Also with the cut in corporate tax rate would most assuredly get me a pay raise as well. 22% of the taxpayers don't pay taxes. 78% of the taxpayers are carrying 100% of the load. Entitlement programs only make that worse. all the lettuce pickers that don't pay squat into our system would end up paying 9% on the beans, tortillas and rice they buy.
ovrlnd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2011, 02:17 PM   #30
ScOoTeR
hoo dat. wat.
 
ScOoTeR's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-09-05
Location: Howell
Posts: 21,577
iTrader: (36)
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by @_'-' View Post
what!? They have no control of sales tax...??? They just collect it. Just like right now, you pay 6% sales tax in MI. You dont see businesses undercutting and "going underground" over that do you? what makes you think that a 9% sales tax would do the same..??
Internet sales does exactly this.
__________________
@clarkstoncracker
ScOoTeR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2011, 03:05 PM   #31
brewmenn
Grumpy old man.
 
brewmenn's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Inkster, MI
Posts: 10,509
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ovrlnd View Post
I was on the cain train from the beginning. as far as income tax I would end up paying less with the 999 plan. Also with the cut in corporate tax rate would most assuredly get me a pay raise as well. 22% of the taxpayers don't pay taxes. 78% of the taxpayers are carrying 100% of the load. Entitlement programs only make that worse. all the lettuce pickers that don't pay squat into our system would end up paying 9% on the beans, tortillas and rice they buy.
I have not heard enough details to know how I'd fare. From what I've heard I think it'd be nearly a wash,

I don't know if I'd get a raise. I wouldn't count of it.

They would only get the 9% on the rice, bean and tortilla sales if the person selling collects the tax and sends it in. No gurantee of that.
brewmenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2011, 04:35 PM   #32
opie
www.krissplicing.com
 
Join Date: 07-21-08
Location: Lansing, MI
Posts: 817
iTrader: (10)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BRUSER View Post
I agree that any change in reducing the tax rates would be helpful to the economy. I look at the situation my mother in law is in, my F-I-L passed away last year. M-I-L has less income (lost his social security income) but has to pay more in taxes now. (lost the head of household rate on the taxes she lives alone but is not considered H-O-H).
When she passes, she will leave a considerable estate to her family. Her husband paid the taxes on the money when he made it, she pays the taxes on the money as she takes the gains to live on, and now the principal will be taxed at 50% because she passes.
I do not think the government is entitled to 1/2 of the money Ron made and saved during his life.
Im in no way sticking up for the fed, but I had to look into estate and gift tax laws recently and the "deduction" for the value of an estate is decent, IMO.

That being said.. I agree with you. Money is taxed multiple times as it progresses through a persons life. It should be criminal.
opie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2011, 06:02 PM   #33
whiterhino
I'm not old, honest...
 
whiterhino's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-07-06
Location: Davisburg MI
Posts: 21,711
iTrader: (21)
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by opie View Post
Money is taxed multiple times as it progresses through a persons life. It should be criminal.
ummmm........ like paying sales tax on a car every time it is sold? pisses me off every time.
__________________
GLFWDA member since 1979.
Member Southern Michigan Rock Crawlers.
whiterhino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2011, 06:26 PM   #34
brewmenn
Grumpy old man.
 
brewmenn's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Inkster, MI
Posts: 10,509
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by whiterhino View Post
ummmm........ like paying sales tax on a car every time it is sold? pisses me off every time.
Yep. I don't see it in the write up for the 999 plan, but "fair tax" concept taxes only new things once, not every time their resold.

This could have 2 unintended consequences, one, an effective tax break for the lower income people who are more likely to buy used things, and second, it would encourage reselling and reusing things.

I still don't like the "999" plan, but I'm slowly warming to the "fair tax" concept.
brewmenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2011, 07:39 PM   #35
Just a Spouse
Motrcytman's spouse
 
Just a Spouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Lake View, AL
Posts: 7,159
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
Thats the attitude that scares me most. And possibly the attitude that got Obama elected in the first place.
I agree!
Just a Spouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2011, 07:51 PM   #36
whiterhino
I'm not old, honest...
 
whiterhino's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-07-06
Location: Davisburg MI
Posts: 21,711
iTrader: (21)
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Just a Spouse View Post
I agree!
You southern demo crats are all the same.
__________________
GLFWDA member since 1979.
Member Southern Michigan Rock Crawlers.
whiterhino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2011, 08:28 PM   #37
cerial
Senior Member
 
cerial's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-06-08
Location: Caledonia,MI
Posts: 1,756
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by opie View Post
Im in no way sticking up for the fed, but I had to look into estate and gift tax laws recently and the "deduction" for the value of an estate is decent, IMO.

That being said.. I agree with you. Money is taxed multiple times as it progresses through a persons life. It should be criminal.
And death, I have always hated the estate tax a security box is a good way around it. The elimination of the death(estate) tax one thing I actually like in this plan. I could see those Empowerment zones growing to off set the business tax in "this or that area" depending on the congressperson.


Ok, going to toss out a few nifty ideas.

-Import tax increase on ALL non taxed goods (except oil) is set to 5% and a 5% increase on those already taxed. Deport tax 1% in on all non taxed goods and a 3% decrease on those already taxed. The amount of imports that are not taxed is staggering. This is aimed at localizing supply chains there by creating jobs. Anything coming in or out is taxed to some degree there would no longer be non taxed imports/exports.

-10% import tax on oil. This would generate SO much revenue so fast.

-Punitive labor indicative. Requiring that 70% of a facility's inmates (2 shifts) work actual factories at 2% the normal wage. This would make more American made goods at lesser price to sell to suppliers in America. This would also develop skills for inmates so they could more into the workforce once released. This would increase Jobs to the correctional core. Going to prison would mean you would need to work a minimum of 6 10 hour days(2 hours for transport) a week until you were released. This would lessen the amount of inmates inside the prison at one time.

-Exported tax/fee. Do you have any idea the amount it cost to export someone. They would be made to work at the same type of factories(general labor idiot can do it positions like cleaning up a park) as the convicts for a minimum of 4 hours unpaid before being exported to offset the cost.

-3600 free local buses in 60 major city's nation wide. Decreasing oil consumption while helping lower income individuals get around.

-No national "tax free/decreased" zones(Empowerment zones). There will be income tax limits. But someone living in DC making 6 digits a year and paying 4% less federal taxes just because he lives in DC seems wrong.

Well that is just a few obvious ideas that people are ignoring. As for the 999, it does not make finical sense to me and would cost more then it would save giving a few small perks here and there.
cerial is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2011, 08:39 PM   #38
Hunter9
Not Right!
 
Hunter9's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-21-06
Location: 2 miles past BFE
Posts: 1,468
iTrader: (6)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by High Center Hancho View Post
the poor should pay the most taxes as they use the most services
Holy shit here is some logic!!!

You use more of the free entitlement so you pay the heavy burden!!

The sales tax would help and would be more even that stated. First the wealthy spend WAY more on luxury items, so leave the 9% off essentials like food (not beer, smokes and lottery) and tax items, like cars, TVs, clothes, etc. Yeah the poor folks got to pay, but the rich SOBs that have the private jets as Obama states, would pay sales tax on it. They would also pay it on the car they buy, but they don't buy a $1000 car, they buy $50,000 cars so as a % of income they will pay more, odd how that works.
Do poor people really think those making over $200k a year put 50% in the bank??? Many of them live check to check like the poor fuckers, difference is the shit they buy with their cash, it is bigger, more expensive and there is more of it. So the sales tax WOULD be more equal than was stated above.

Last edited by Hunter9; October 14th, 2011 at 08:42 PM.
Hunter9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 15th, 2011, 02:59 PM   #39
Rockstar
sɐƃǝʌ sɐן
 
Rockstar's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-25-07
Location: Taylor,Mi
Posts: 8,504
iTrader: (11)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Default

We don't need another Obama in the White House.... Read into if you want they will say anything good $hit you want to hear then your Fooked when they get into the White House....


Nothing they Say will ever happen look at all the past Pres....
Rockstar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 17th, 2011, 11:18 AM   #40
ScOoTeR
hoo dat. wat.
 
ScOoTeR's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-09-05
Location: Howell
Posts: 21,577
iTrader: (36)
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter9 View Post
Do poor people really think those making over $200k a year put 50% in the bank???
While not exactly "check-to-check", we manage to save about 35%. Smart people (that can afford it) automatically try to max out any program that reduces your income on paper.

2012 estimates for pre-tax 401K is predicted to be $17K - in a double-income family earning $200K total, that's $34K that isn't taxed now (of course, you take your chances with future tax rates when you withdraw, but you'll most likely live off less money and be taxes at a far lower rate. (not to mention the extra $$$ that goes in if you get any kind of matching from your employer.)
Also, you can contribute up to $6500/year pre-tax in a HSA.

I guess we might live paycheck-to-paycheck, except it's because we have set after-tax savings goals.
__________________
@clarkstoncracker
ScOoTeR is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:38 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Page generated in 0.56519 seconds with 80 queries