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Old October 7th, 2011, 02:46 PM   #41
joe_jeep
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barry1me View Post
I dont have any issue with not running studs....lol

that big paddle track is great in hard pack, or even deep powder.
it wont stop for shit on ice, studs do! studs offer a safety factor in braking nothing else can.

handy for hill climbs i bet. most places in michigan you need a track like that are illegal anyway.

Last edited by joe_jeep; October 7th, 2011 at 02:53 PM.
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Old October 7th, 2011, 02:50 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kickstand View Post
1. Biking "destinations" are not as plentiful as areas to snowmobile. You'd have to look in the right spots.
2. I lived in the UP, I did not see hotels completely filled with snowmobiles during the time that I lived up there.
3. Snowmobilers probably spend more as a group, but individually the costs are about the same.
i lived in the up for 6 years, and ride there quite often still.
hotels are hard to come by on the weekend.
weekdays they are still partially full, more so around holidays.
the individual costs are not even close to the same.
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Old October 7th, 2011, 03:09 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Renegade II View Post
The sled trail fee doesn't help the local economy, it repairs the shit the guys on sleds tear up. Yet you're lumping it in as an area where the locals profit? Wrong, and it doesn't come close to covering the costs of repairing culverts and signage that are destroyed by drunks on sleds.



My ORV money goes to maintain routes that only sleds can use during the winter. Get over it, it's no more one persons land to recreate on than anothers. It's called equal access and it's what pro 4x4 associations like the Blue Ribbon Coalition have been fighting for. 9 months out of the year that sled parked out in the barn doesn't contribute shit to the economy and bikers, hikers, skaters, walkers, bird watchers, butterfly collectors, photographers,etc... pay the bills at the Mom & Pop Shop. Also that sled trail fee. Does hope the local economy if you are actually correct and assume that people are coming up her to enjoy the trails in the summer. Quite a large some of money from those trail permits purchased for sleds (not orv) for this single instance to pave the bike path going from Petoskey to Charlevoix. So how is it fair that we put into a fund for trails for snowmobiling and they take money out for bike riders that do not pay in? I am not saying there is anything wrong with people Biking or hiking. Just the State using money to keep up sled trail for a totally different use.

As a side note; As long as we're saying money talks, the last two years ORV registrations have out numbered sled registrations. Should we turn more trails over to ORV's and ban sleds from those trails in the winter?
Keep it in context. I was talking about money spent by bicycles and skaters vs. sleds. Not trucks for orv. Ask the mom and pop stores in Northern Michigan what there Bread and butter is and it is the People on sleds and ski slopes that get them by. In the summer I agree with what you are saying, but don't think that is enough to get them through the winter. Don't Get me wrong I don't have any problems with Bikes or hikers. Even though in this area I don't see them dishing out the coin like the sleds. What I don't understand is why they can take out Hundreds of thousands of dollars from the trail permit fund (not orv) in this instance and make a paved bike path (different from the one in the original post) that snowmobilers cannot ride on and hikers and bikers did not
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Old October 9th, 2011, 07:49 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_jeep View Post
i lived in the up for 6 years, and ride there quite often still.
hotels are hard to come by on the weekend.
weekdays they are still partially full, more so around holidays.
the individual costs are not even close to the same.
The individual costs are exactly the same retard.

How much do you spend on the local economy in a weekend of snowmobiling?

You go up friday night with full tanks of fuel, you stop at the local establishment for dinner and drinks, saturday morning you have breakfast, you eat lunch, you fill up on fuel, you have dinner saturday night, and sunday morning you eat breakfast, ride, and go home.

Congratulations, you just spent the same amount of money as any other person who visited the area for the weekend. Individually the amount of $$ you spent to go riding was the exact same as the amount of $$ a family spent to go to an area to enjoy the bike path in the summer.
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Old October 9th, 2011, 08:16 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kickstand View Post
The individual costs are exactly the same retard.

How much do you spend on the local economy in a weekend of snowmobiling?

You go up friday night with full tanks of fuel, you stop at the local establishment for dinner and drinks, saturday morning you have breakfast, you eat lunch, you fill up on fuel, you have dinner saturday night, and sunday morning you eat breakfast, ride, and go home.

Congratulations, you just spent the same amount of money as any other person who visited the area for the weekend. Individually the amount of $$ you spent to go riding was the exact same as the amount of $$ a family spent to go to an area to enjoy the bike path in the summer.
x2

While there are alot of people that ride $10k+ sleds for 3 or 4 months a year and drop money like its hot at reastaurants and bars. There is probably 5 times more bikes and blades out there for the other 9 months. so with 3 times the season and 5 times the size of the sport that makes them likely worth more to local economies.
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Old October 9th, 2011, 08:22 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by liftedandgifted View Post
Keep it in context. I was talking about money spent by bicycles and skaters vs. sleds. Not trucks for orv. Ask the mom and pop stores in Northern Michigan what there Bread and butter is and it is the People on sleds and ski slopes that get them by. In the summer I agree with what you are saying, but don't think that is enough to get them through the winter. Don't Get me wrong I don't have any problems with Bikes or hikers. Even though in this area I don't see them dishing out the coin like the sleds. What I don't understand is why they can take out Hundreds of thousands of dollars from the trail permit fund (not orv) in this instance and make a paved bike path (different from the one in the original post) that snowmobilers cannot ride on and hikers and bikers did not

So you think if you asked these mom and pop shops that you are refering to if they would rather loose the summer recreationalists or the winter sledders they would say the summer? I mean on a solid weekend in the winter they probably clear more money than a solid weekend in the summer but the season is too short. In the summer I assume that they can rely on a constant flow of tourists with kids and retirees that take alot of vacations during the week. I don't know if you have ever worked in a retail environment but old people can spend money, and there is becoming more and more of them.
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Old October 9th, 2011, 09:37 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kickstand View Post
The individual costs are exactly the same retard.

How much do you spend on the local economy in a weekend of snowmobiling?

You go up friday night with full tanks of fuel, you stop at the local establishment for dinner and drinks, saturday morning you have breakfast, you eat lunch, you fill up on fuel, you have dinner saturday night, and sunday morning you eat breakfast, ride, and go home.

Congratulations, you just spent the same amount of money as any other person who visited the area for the weekend. Individually the amount of $$ you spent to go riding was the exact same as the amount of $$ a family spent to go to an area to enjoy the bike path in the summer.
Not true
Most guys I ride with buy the first tank of fuel close to the motel or trail head,because towing sleds full of fuel is harder,and uses more fuel to tow.
Sleds also eat a lot of gas,like $100 a day,and $25 in oil ,so dont forget too add that up along with the belts,bearings,carbides,boggie wheels.
If its a family of four they are spending hundreds in fuel each day they ride.
I paid $1000 for my mountain bike six years ago,Ive replaced the chain twice,tires once,and brake pads once,cost me less then $100 for six years and thousands of miles.
Any one saying bikers spend as much as snowmobilers has never lived in the lp and snowmobiled in the up,or traveled to ride.If you can ride close to home,or out the back door,the cost might be close.
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Old October 9th, 2011, 12:43 PM   #48
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Another point being missed. Unlike in the winter when they aren't even open, in addition to motels, etc. being full on summer weekends so are campgrounds, seasonal cabins, etc... From what I've seen camping as well as sledding I'd safely wager another 2/3 as many people are up north spending money during any given time during the summer. One very easy case in point; Silver Lake / Mears. The town and shops are pretty much all closed in the winter.
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Old October 9th, 2011, 02:34 PM   #49
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I guess bikers put so much money into the economy, they should easily be able to afford to build their own paved trails,and leave the snow mobile asosiations money,trails,bridges alone.after all these trails are maintained,planned,and built by snowmobilers not bike riders.
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Old October 9th, 2011, 02:53 PM   #50
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I'm not going to read all of what was written just put in my .02 cents. I have no issues controlling my sled without studs. I had no issues controlling my last sled without studs or the sled before that. I am also with Barry on where I ride though. I have ridden trails without studs with no problems, I believe it has do with staying inside of your riding abilities. As far as the money goes I also have no idea what it cost to go for a biking weekend. I know I spend half as much when I go up to the UP in the summer for a weekend compared to a weekend in the winter riding.
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Old October 9th, 2011, 07:04 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdd1469 View Post
Not true
Most guys I ride with buy the first tank of fuel close to the motel or trail head,because towing sleds full of fuel is harder,and uses more fuel to tow.
Sleds also eat a lot of gas,like $100 a day,and $25 in oil ,so dont forget too add that up along with the belts,bearings,carbides,boggie wheels.
If its a family of four they are spending hundreds in fuel each day they ride.
I paid $1000 for my mountain bike six years ago,Ive replaced the chain twice,tires once,and brake pads once,cost me less then $100 for six years and thousands of miles.
Any one saying bikers spend as much as snowmobilers has never lived in the lp and snowmobiled in the up,or traveled to ride.If you can ride close to home,or out the back door,the cost might be close.

you are not that bright...lets see full tanks weigh more so its harder to tow? Hmm @ 6.25lbs per gallon you must have huge fucking tanks to effect your tow rigs gas mileage.

$100 a day in fuel? Well @ $4.00 a gallon you would have to burn 25 gallons in a day worth of riding. Most selds get between 12-20 mpg and have a 5-7gallon tank...so easy math 6gallons @ 16mpg = 96 miles per tank over 4 fill ups is 384 miles a day...ya sarry thats not happening

$25 in oil a day? A gallon of good oil cost around $40....I go through one to one and half gallons a year for two sleds and I do alot of riding. Your machine must rip through spark plugs if you are burning up that much oil

belts, bearings, and boggy wheels? how often do you replace that shit? I'll give you my totals...1 belt, 2 boggy wheels 2 sets of carbides, 2 sets of hyfax in the last four years
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Old October 9th, 2011, 07:12 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by High Center Hancho View Post
you are not that bright...lets see full tanks weigh more so its harder to tow? Hmm @ 6.25lbs per gallon you must have huge fucking tanks to effect your tow rigs gas mileage.
Makes sense to me

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Old October 9th, 2011, 07:18 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Nuggets View Post
Ban studded snowmobiles on paved area only, not the whole State.
Or don't pave trails that are going to be ruined by studs from the thousands of snowmobiles that ride them every year



.....duh
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Old October 9th, 2011, 07:20 PM   #54
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Or don't pave trails that are going to be ruined by studs from the thousands of snowmobiles that ride them every year



.....duh
there are plenty enough trails that are snowmobile only trails that snowmobiles can stay the fukc off the paved bike trails
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Old October 9th, 2011, 07:46 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by High Center Hancho View Post
there are plenty enough trails that are snowmobile only trails that snowmobiles can stay the fukc off the paved bike trails
what about big rapids and caddy there is spots paved and no where to go around to continue on the trail if there is a good base studs never touch problem is when peeople ride in low to no snow
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Old October 9th, 2011, 07:47 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by High Center Hancho View Post
there are plenty enough trails that are snowmobile only trails that snowmobiles can stay the fukc off the paved bike trails
I'm not saying that's not true, You can't tell me that they had no idea that snowmobiles would tear up the trail; of course they did, yet they paved it anyway and people are flipping out cause OH MY GOD the trail got fed up

I'm not disagreeing with banning studded sleds of paved trails, i'm just saying they created the problem, seems stupid to me for people to now all of a sudden start bitching about the trail
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Old October 9th, 2011, 08:03 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by High Center Hancho View Post
you are not that bright...lets see full tanks weigh more so its harder to tow? Hmm @ 6.25lbs per gallon you must have huge fucking tanks to effect your tow rigs gas mileage.

$100 a day in fuel? Well @ $4.00 a gallon you would have to burn 25 gallons in a day worth of riding. Most selds get between 12-20 mpg and have a 5-7gallon tank...so easy math 6gallons @ 16mpg = 96 miles per tank over 4 fill ups is 384 miles a day...ya sarry thats not happening

$25 in oil a day? A gallon of good oil cost around $40....I go through one to one and half gallons a year for two sleds and I do alot of riding. Your machine must rip through spark plugs if you are burning up that much oil

belts, bearings, and boggy wheels? how often do you replace that shit? I'll give you my totals...1 belt, 2 boggy wheels 2 sets of carbides, 2 sets of hyfax in the last four years

8 sometimes 9 if im really nice to it. Belts last all season for me unless I buy the cheap 80-90 dollar ones, then they last 80-90 miles.

Oh and what are you riding that still has boggy wheels on it?
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Old October 9th, 2011, 09:00 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by High Center Hancho View Post
you are not that bright...lets see full tanks weigh more so its harder to tow? Hmm @ 6.25lbs per gallon you must have huge fucking tanks to effect your tow rigs gas mileage.

$100 a day in fuel? Well @ $4.00 a gallon you would have to burn 25 gallons in a day worth of riding. Most selds get between 12-20 mpg and have a 5-7gallon tank...so easy math 6gallons @ 16mpg = 96 miles per tank over 4 fill ups is 384 miles a day...ya sarry thats not happening

$25 in oil a day? A gallon of good oil cost around $40....I go through one to one and half gallons a year for two sleds and I do alot of riding. Your machine must rip through spark plugs if you are burning up that much oil

belts, bearings, and boggy wheels? how often do you replace that shit? I'll give you my totals...1 belt, 2 boggy wheels 2 sets of carbides, 2 sets of hyfax in the last four years

I agree that towing empty sleds doesn't have shit to do with towing ability or fuel economy. Too minimal to matter much unless you're towing with an elcamino or something.

I don't agree even a little bit with your math though. $100 a day isn't too hard to do. I'm not sure what "Most" means to you, but I have never had a sled that averages 12-20 mpg. Unless you ride like steveo fucks, that's not happening. Ten mpg's is a fair average.

5-7 gallon tank? On what? A race sled maybe, but trail sled, no. Ten gallons is a fair average size, although many are close to twelve.

Good oil is about $40/gallon. The standard has always been to carry (or plan to buy) a quart for every 100 miles you plan to ride. This is about right, as that equates to a 40:1 mixture which is normal. This is what your oil pump is usually set at.

I have never had to buy a bogey from a trailside stop. But many do. I have purchased new belts from dealers in the U.P., while on trips, and I have bought carbides as well. These aren't common purchases for me, but there is a reason every gas stop, food stop, warming hut, etc has this on hand.

So,
10 mpg x ten gallons capacity x $4/gallon = $40/tank/100 miles/one quart of oil.

$100 in fuel will get you 250 miles with two fuel stops. You will also spend $25 in oil during this time.

250 miles in a day isn't hard to do at all, and even leaves time to shower and go out for dinner and drinks.

It's pretty easy to spend $250 in gas/oil per trip, not counting the tow rig.
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Old October 9th, 2011, 10:01 PM   #59
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this whole thread is dumb..

comparing a weekend of mountain biking cost to a weekend of snowmobiling cost is just plain funny.
you better have at least a grand in your pocket any time you go north riding..i spend easily 100 a day in fuel..
i rode 9800 miles in 2003. spent over 30 grand that year. that was not including the enclosed trailer and the truck payment to pull it. a belt for any new sled is almost 200 bucks.good synthetic oil cost more then a bike fag spends the whole weekend on his water, health bars and those awesome spandex padded gay pants.

this is a dead issue.they passed it in wisconsin..i am sure it will pass in mi.
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Old October 10th, 2011, 12:05 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by High Center Hancho View Post
you are not that bright...lets see full tanks weigh more so its harder to tow? Hmm @ 6.25lbs per gallon you must have huge fucking tanks to effect your tow rigs gas mileage.

$100 a day in fuel? Well @ $4.00 a gallon you would have to burn 25 gallons in a day worth of riding. Most selds get between 12-20 mpg and have a 5-7gallon tank...so easy math 6gallons @ 16mpg = 96 miles per tank over 4 fill ups is 384 miles a day...ya sarry thats not happening

$25 in oil a day? A gallon of good oil cost around $40....I go through one to one and half gallons a year for two sleds and I do alot of riding. Your machine must rip through spark plugs if you are burning up that much oil

belts, bearings, and boggy wheels? how often do you replace that shit? I'll give you my totals...1 belt, 2 boggy wheels 2 sets of carbides, 2 sets of hyfax in the last four years
I agree that 10 gallons of fuel per sled may not weigh that much,but im a old drag racer,and every ounce counts.I got in the habbit of fueling up when i get to my destination a long time ago,boats carry a lot of fuel,thats what got me thinking about extra weight,years ago.
My boat towed a lot nicer empty.
Add up all the numbers you want,I know what I spend to ride up north.Im sure I ride harder then most people,but we easily burn up 2- 3 tanks a day.I figure if you drive all the way to the up,you better put on some miles,anything under 200 a day is un acceptable.
I always bring spare belts,and rarely need them.I've seen guys go thru 6 belts in a weekend,because of poor clutch alighnment,it happends all the time.why do you think it's easier to get a belt for a skidoo, then condems, at rite aid in da up?
My guess is that you dont put on 2000-3000 miles a year on your sleds,thats why you dont use parts up more often.
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