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Old September 25th, 2011, 04:41 PM   #1
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Default Street Car, TH350 vs 700R4

Planning a street toy. Chevy motor, about 500hp in the plan.

Mainly 0 to 65mph street use (cruise, drive to work, etc). So want the best setup for acceleration in that range.

So, TH350 or 700R4

Likely options:

TH350, 4.10 gears, 31" tires (about 3200-3300 rpm @ 65 mph)

700R4, 5.13 gears, 31" tires, (about 2625 rpm @ 65 mph).


The 700R4 would have a much deeper gear ratio, although I've heard the 1st-2nd shift can be a bit of a dog, and the 700R4 also uses more power than the 350.

With the TH350, likely shifting 1st-2nd at about 55mph, with the 700R4, 1st-2nd shift is about 37mph.

Anyone have thoughts on it?
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Old September 25th, 2011, 04:58 PM   #2
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i always loved my 700r4's. im spoiled by overdrive. could not live without it now.

even stock they work fairly well. with a little work its a great trans.

under 3k rpms at 70 on the freeway. it could be driven anywhere.

jmho
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Old September 25th, 2011, 04:59 PM   #3
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i can only tell you my experiences with a 700r4 as i have a built one in my camaro. i personally like 700's due to the 3.06 first gear as well as having overdrive. when built properly they can withstand 5-600 HP regularly. the 1-2 shift is not as bad as you think but it all depends on the stall speed of your converter. i have a 2200 stall converter in my car and it doesn't drop more then maybe 500 rpm between shifts if i'm in the throttle hard.
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Old September 25th, 2011, 05:26 PM   #4
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What is this going in? how much weight? I would go with a th350 alot less money to build one. Also a 700r4 has lockup convertor so there is also more cost there. A whole lot more options on th350 convertors. Why not go with a 4.56 gear on the th350. A 31" tall tire is a good size tire. I think a 5.13 gear with the 3.06 first gear in the 700r4 would make it hard to hook.
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Old September 25th, 2011, 05:42 PM   #5
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The 700r4 also requires a TV cable. I'd definitely go with the overdrive trans.

Supercharged yj
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Old September 25th, 2011, 06:08 PM   #6
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if your going with the 700 get the later 80's year cause they have a stronger input shaft, and keep in mind the cost of a lock-up stall converter.

i haven't looked into it much lately but you may wanna look at a the 4l60's
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Old September 25th, 2011, 06:10 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pitbull2332 View Post
What is this going in? how much weight? I would go with a th350 alot less money to build one. Also a 700r4 has lockup convertor so there is also more cost there. A whole lot more options on th350 convertors. Why not go with a 4.56 gear on the th350. A 31" tall tire is a good size tire. I think a 5.13 gear with the 3.06 first gear in the 700r4 would make it hard to hook.
One of my Jeeps. 2800 lbs weight. Guessing something around a 3200-3600 stall converter.

700R4 + 5.13s would be all-wheel drive, with a viscous coupled center diff. Mostly because I have the axles sitting here right now with 5.13 gears. Kinda like a Syclone, but lighter, and V8 powered.

I think 4.56s would be too much with the TH350 for street use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob the plumber View Post
The 700r4 also requires a TV cable. I'd definitely go with the overdrive trans.

Supercharged yj
No, I'd be running full manual. Don't want to convert to a cable throttle to deal with a TV cable. This is behind a Gen III/IV small block. LS2 or LS3.

I've seen one LS2 syclone, I would expect better 0-80 performance with the lower gears (They are running 3.73s) and hopefuly lighter weight.

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...one/index.html


Last edited by Haggar; September 26th, 2011 at 08:45 AM.
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Old September 25th, 2011, 08:44 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by don4life View Post
if your going with the 700 get the later 80's year cause they have a stronger input shaft, and keep in mind the cost of a lock-up stall converter.

i haven't looked into it much lately but you may wanna look at a the 4l60's
a lock up stall converter is not that expensive. i think tranny tom got mine for 200 bucks or so. 87-up are the desired ones to look at.
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Old September 25th, 2011, 08:56 PM   #9
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After running my truck around with the TH350 and a warmed up 350. I would go with a 700R4 next time.
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Old September 25th, 2011, 08:56 PM   #10
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Actually with that gearing and tire sizes in a 700r4 with a 3000 stall you should get shift points like 1-2 at 18 mph,2-3 at 33mph, 3-4 at 54 mph and be in 4th gear with a top speed(at 3000rpm) of 77mph. So very predictable shift points over all not taking weight into account that is.
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Old September 25th, 2011, 09:40 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cerial View Post
Actually with that gearing and tire sizes in a 700r4 with a 3000 stall you should get shift points like 1-2 at 18 mph,2-3 at 33mph, 3-4 at 54 mph and be in 4th gear with a top speed(at 3000rpm) of 77mph. So very predictable shift points over all not taking weight into account that is.

Idk how you calculated that but with a 31" tire, 5.13's and 3.06 first gear shifting at 6000-6500 you would be running about 37mph 1-2


Stall does not mean that the engine will only rev to that number...



Back to the transmissions, I like the 700r4 in my dads truck.. Had a 350 in a camaro.. would have died to have that next gear

Last edited by littletrucker; September 25th, 2011 at 09:44 PM.
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Old September 26th, 2011, 06:50 AM   #12
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My shift points were figured at 6500 rpm. I'm not too worried about converter cost. I think I might have $10k into the motor and trans when its done...
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Old September 26th, 2011, 09:55 AM   #13
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With a 700r4 and 5.13 gears and 31" tires your first to second shift will come a lot sooner than 35mph! We have a 300hp 4.3 in our Bravada with 30" tires and it is right in the range of the Cyclones and Typhoons and it shifts before 35mph at a 6000rpm shift point set VIA EFI Live and running a 4l60E that I do believe has the same gear ratio as a 700r4.

1st to 2nd it a pretty big gear gap as stated but it is also not as big as you think also already mentioned, our Bravada will bark them into 2nd on dry pavement even with AWD and pulls pretty hard all through 2nd gear.
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Old September 26th, 2011, 10:21 AM   #14
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I don't know if you've considered a turbo 400 for your build- but I have 1 that just had a fresh build (with all the good stuff) for my Camaro project that I've decided to send down the road.
It should easily handle 600 HP. Miller Racing built it.

I have a little over $600 into it- I'll sell it for $500.

Let me know if interested.....

And clean out you inbox!!!
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Old September 26th, 2011, 10:47 AM   #15
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700R4 all the way

Don't go cheap on the converter it's not worth it. The nice thing with a lock-up is you can run a higher stall speed without worrying about overheating the trans while cruising.

Also, that deeply geared and light weight, a converter rated @ 3k will stall less than that.
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Old September 26th, 2011, 10:51 AM   #16
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Like someone mentioned earlier,the convertor for a 700r4 is very exspensive if you have a lot of cam and need a large stahl.I was looking at $1000 just for a good convertor,with the correct stahl.If the exspence of a overdrive doesnt bother you ,i would build a 200r4,like they put behind the grand nationals.they are suposed to be stronger,and have a closer 1-2 gear ratio.I believe they came in some monte ss,but not sure.
Check out art carr transmissions for the scoop on the 200r4
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Old September 26th, 2011, 11:17 AM   #17
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200R4 = 2wd trans, this is in a 4wd/awd Jeep.

I have a 700R4 laying around, and the typhoon transfer case will bolt up.

Just doing my usual info gathering now, will not have time to start on this one until the new year. Need the 5.3 swap buttoned up and out of the garage first...
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Old September 26th, 2011, 11:21 AM   #18
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Shift point will depend on how loose the converter is. With no slip, the gears are:

1 2 3 4
5 883 488 289 202
10 1766 975 577 404
15 2649 1463 866 606
20 3532 1951 1154 808
25 4415 2438 1443 1010
30 5298 2926 1731 1212
35 6181 3414 2020 1414
40 7064 3901 2309 1616

So I'm thinking around 35mph shift.

FIne with that. My F150 shifts 1st to 2nd at about 32ish (4.2 first gear in the auto). My SRT4 shifted WOT at 30mph.

I have the axles sitting in the barn with 5.13s which is why I would use that gearing. Honestly, I'd rather run a HP Dana 30 front for weight, but not possible with the 5.13s. And 5.13s would create nice gearing to blast the sand in high range.
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Old September 26th, 2011, 12:18 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post
200R4 = 2wd trans, this is in a 4wd/awd Jeep.

I have a 700R4 laying around, and the typhoon transfer case will bolt up.

Just doing my usual info gathering now, will not have time to start on this one until the new year. Need the 5.3 swap buttoned up and out of the garage first...
I just saw the first post saying street car so I asssumed 2wd
If doing a gen 3-4 why not a 4l60e or a4l80e ?
Are you switching to a carb?
If it was me,Id put a procharger on a basically stock 5.3 or 6.0 and run a 4l80e
It would make more power then you need in a jeep on the street,it could be quiet and easy to drive.If you keep the boost down it should last for years.
Buy a totalled truck,get motor,trans,computor,wiring,scrap whats left.
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Old September 26th, 2011, 01:56 PM   #20
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Plan is fuel injection, but might go carb. I don't want it to be quiet. I want it to be loud :-) I'd much rather have a 500hp N/A motor than a 500hp superchargered stocker. And how much power is needed in a Jeep isn't the topic. Its a purpose built vehicle to go fast, not offroad.

Much more akin to a car, which is why I had the discussion: TH350 or 700R4 for a hot rod / street car.

From what I've seen, on the strip, the 700R4 cars don't have any advanatage from the low gearing, and are usually a little slower due to higher parasitic loss.
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