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Old October 17th, 2011, 09:45 AM   #161
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awesome.

I wonder who paid for those 2 scholarships.
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Old October 17th, 2011, 09:55 AM   #162
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I wonder who paid for those 2 scholarships.
A lot of scholarships are private scholarships. I dont feel like I mooched off anyone. In high school, I worked and saved money but also got 4.0 so I could get scholarships. I applied for scholarships and received them. I chose to go to Wayne State instead of U of M because the scholarships I was offered meant no student loans. I don't know how I was smart enough to make that decision but I am glad I was. I graduated debt free from college but I worked during college, I had a beater, I lived in a cockroach infested detroit apartment, and I weighed 115lbs because I couldn't afford to eat.
Even if an academic scholarship is publicly funded in some way, you work for it. In high school I carried a 4.0, had several extra curricular activities, and I worked at least one job all the time. I would say getting a scholarship that you work for teaches a positive lesson.
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Old October 17th, 2011, 12:03 PM   #163
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A lot of scholarships are private scholarships. I dont feel like I mooched off anyone. In high school, I worked and saved money but also got 4.0 so I could get scholarships. I applied for scholarships and received them. I chose to go to Wayne State instead of U of M because the scholarships I was offered meant no student loans. I don't know how I was smart enough to make that decision but I am glad I was. I graduated debt free from college but I worked during college, I had a beater, I lived in a cockroach infested detroit apartment, and I weighed 115lbs because I couldn't afford to eat.
Even if an academic scholarship is publicly funded in some way, you work for it. In high school I carried a 4.0, had several extra curricular activities, and I worked at least one job all the time. I would say getting a scholarship that you work for teaches a positive lesson.
Right, but it was still money that was given to you, so don't go pretending that nobody gave you anything.
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Old October 17th, 2011, 12:06 PM   #164
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Right, but it was still money that was given to you, so don't go pretending that nobody gave you anything.
No one gave me anything for FREE ... I worked for it. If I had a lower GPA I wouldn't have qualified for the scholarship. I had to work to get that GPA (thought HS classes were easy other than my AP classes).
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Old October 17th, 2011, 02:00 PM   #165
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No one gave me anything for FREE ... I worked for it. If I had a lower GPA I wouldn't have qualified for the scholarship. I had to work to get that GPA (thought HS classes were easy other than my AP classes).
I in no way mean to suggest that you didn't work hard to get good grades and a scholarship. But if some person or organization hadn't decided to put up money to reward students with good grades with scholarships there would have been no scholarship for you to receive. To whoever paid for your scholarship it was a charitable donation, not a payment for services rendered.
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Old October 17th, 2011, 03:06 PM   #166
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I in no way mean to suggest that you didn't work hard to get good grades and a scholarship. But if some person or organization hadn't decided to put up money to reward students with good grades with scholarships there would have been no scholarship for you to receive. To whoever paid for your scholarship it was a charitable donation, not a payment for services rendered.
In my opinion, real charity is different than forced charity through taxes. I am not anti-charity. I give monthly to United Way, ASPCA and WWF. I think the United Way manages their money a lot better than the government manages its use of forced charity intake also.
I am not as anti-government help as others, but I think the abuses of system are more prevalent and systemic than a lot of people will admit. I would rather have tighter qualification policies and pay more people to monitor the system than to continue giving out aid like it's a free for all.
I think the issue with a lot of these protesters is that they do not want to put in the effort or critical thinking to make an opportunity for themselves. While I agree the banks have done a great job marketing slavery to them through debt, we all have the choice to not rack up debt and make them richer. The banks, as businesses, should be looking to make money. These people need to introspect and find strength or motivation to achieve within themselves rather than looking for the government to remedy their inadequacies.
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Old October 17th, 2011, 04:09 PM   #167
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In my opinion, real charity is different than forced charity through taxes. I am not anti-charity. I give monthly to United Way, ASPCA and WWF. I think the United Way manages their money a lot better than the government manages its use of forced charity intake also.
I am not as anti-government help as others, but I think the abuses of system are more prevalent and systemic than a lot of people will admit. I would rather have tighter qualification policies and pay more people to monitor the system than to continue giving out aid like it's a free for all.
I think the issue with a lot of these protesters is that they do not want to put in the effort or critical thinking to make an opportunity for themselves. While I agree the banks have done a great job marketing slavery to them through debt, we all have the choice to not rack up debt and make them richer. The banks, as businesses, should be looking to make money. These people need to introspect and find strength or motivation to achieve within themselves rather than looking for the government to remedy their inadequacies.
Yup, you said it in a nutshell. No one forced these people to borrow money or make a commitment. If a person signs a contract where they promise to repay a loan, THEY are the ones responsible for that loan. Why should we go through life feeling sorry for Mr. & Mrs. Smith because they got caught up in a loan that sounded too good to be true? They are adults. They made the commitment. They are the ones responsible for their household.
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Old October 17th, 2011, 06:47 PM   #168
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Yup, you said it in a nutshell. No one forced these people to borrow money or make a commitment. If a person signs a contract where they promise to repay a loan, THEY are the ones responsible for that loan. Why should we go through life feeling sorry for Mr. & Mrs. Smith because they got caught up in a loan that sounded too good to be true? They are adults. They made the commitment. They are the ones responsible for their household.
I have been learning a lot about this in my finance class. Too many people want to live the high life now,which is above their means, and make large purchases on a shoe string. Americans are starting to believe that wants are needs. I make really good money, but I drive a nice but used truck (let someone else take that huge hit for the first two years of depreciation. I will keep my money in the bank, thank you). I purchased a house that I could pay in less than 25% of my income alone (put a good amount down and still got a nice place in WB). I do buy nice things that I want but I still look for good deals and can afford to buy them in cash. I really want a new A5 but I cant truly afford until I can walk in and pay for it in cash.
There are wants and there are needs. If people paid for their needs before their wants they would have a lot better lives.
What scares me even more is that these dumb asses probably aren't saving for their retirement so is the government going to redistribute the money being saved, by those of us who are saving, to cover them when Social Security goes bankrupt?
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Old October 17th, 2011, 07:35 PM   #169
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I in no way mean to suggest that you didn't work hard to get good grades and a scholarship. But if some person or organization hadn't decided to put up money to reward students with good grades with scholarships there would have been no scholarship for you to receive. To whoever paid for your scholarship it was a charitable donation, not a payment for services rendered.
I wonder how many of those big evil capitalist companies create and develop scholarships????
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Old October 17th, 2011, 08:59 PM   #170
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I wonder how many of those big evil capitalist companies create and develop scholarships????
Probably a lot of them.
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Old October 18th, 2011, 12:59 AM   #171
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In my opinion, real charity is different than forced charity through taxes. I am not anti-charity. I give monthly to United Way, ASPCA and WWF. I think the United Way manages their money a lot better than the government manages its use of forced charity intake also.
I am not as anti-government help as others, but I think the abuses of system are more prevalent and systemic than a lot of people will admit. I would rather have tighter qualification policies and pay more people to monitor the system than to continue giving out aid like it's a free for all.
I think the issue with a lot of these protesters is that they do not want to put in the effort or critical thinking to make an opportunity for themselves. While I agree the banks have done a great job marketing slavery to them through debt, we all have the choice to not rack up debt and make them richer. The banks, as businesses, should be looking to make money. These people need to introspect and find strength or motivation to achieve within themselves rather than looking for the government to remedy their inadequacies.
I agree with most of this although it has nothing to do with admitting that even though you may have to "worked" to get a scholarship, the money received is still a gift, not a payment for services rendered.

My issue with people that have an issue with the protesters is that they don't seem to understand that right or wrong, a growing number of people are starting to feel the way they do. A growing number are starting to feel that not only do they have no chance to be in the "1%", but that they are falling further and further away from there. A growing number no longer feel that any amount of effort or critical thinking will get them ahead. The more people start to think that way, the more likely ti is that there will be radical changes made, which you may not like. I think the best way to avert this is to listen to what they are saying and try to address some of the concerns. Calling them all stupid and lazy does not help. Giving a little bit now may help avoid them taking a lot later. Ignore them at your peril.
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Old October 18th, 2011, 01:07 AM   #172
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I have been learning a lot about this in my finance class. Too many people want to live the high life now,which is above their means, and make large purchases on a shoe string. Americans are starting to believe that wants are needs. I make really good money, but I drive a nice but used truck (let someone else take that huge hit for the first two years of depreciation. I will keep my money in the bank, thank you). I purchased a house that I could pay in less than 25% of my income alone (put a good amount down and still got a nice place in WB). I do buy nice things that I want but I still look for good deals and can afford to buy them in cash. I really want a new A5 but I cant truly afford until I can walk in and pay for it in cash.
There are wants and there are needs. If people paid for their needs before their wants they would have a lot better lives.
What scares me even more is that these dumb asses probably aren't saving for their retirement so is the government going to redistribute the money being saved, by those of us who are saving, to cover them when Social Security goes bankrupt?
I think there's lots of truth there. There's a huge difference between the expectations of what "middle class" meant 50 or 60 years ago vs. what people expect today. That is likely part of the problem.

But still, the fact remains that the disparity of wealth and income is growing.
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Old October 18th, 2011, 04:16 AM   #173
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My issue with people that have an issue with the protesters is that they don't seem to understand that right or wrong, a growing number of people are starting to feel the way they do. A growing number are starting to feel that not only do they have no chance to be in the "1%", but that they are falling further and further away from there. A growing number no longer feel that any amount of effort or critical thinking will get them ahead. The more people start to think that way, the more likely ti is that there will be radical changes made, which you may not like. I think the best way to avert this is to listen to what they are saying and try to address some of the concerns. Calling them all stupid and lazy does not help. Giving a little bit now may help avoid them taking a lot later. Ignore them at your peril.
One of the beautiful things about being an American is you have the freedom to express yourself open and honestly. The protestors are exercising their right to be heard. Ive no problem with that nor do I believe anyone else does. Remember I mentioned what happens when 51% of the voting population decides that they can vote to take what the other 49% have.... Your statements above demonstrate why people like Kerryann call the protestors stupid. Because they havent put forth the effort or critical thinking to follow their ideas to fruition. Their "feelings", just as mine, are a moot point in the reality of life.

Add on top of this we have politicians cashing in on the class warfare that is going on and anyone with some knowledge of history and what this country was founded on can see a total collapse of the system that allows the protestors to be out in the street in the first place.

I get that you are just trying to play devils advocate and try to get the POV of the protestors across. Im telling you their POV is moot when put into context of the reality of our country and our laws. They are actively protesting against order, against personal responsibility and are gaining support from alot of groups that openly and actively call for the destruction of the US Government. They are being used.... Useful idiots... Because they have abandoned critical thinking.

They are the result of an out of control entitlement society and I refuse to play their game. As far as I am concerned, anyone within my voting district that supports the movement will not get my vote because they too, have abandoned critical thinking. Having our elected leaders pitting use against each other is a travesty to what our country is all about. Equal opportunity under the law.
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Old October 18th, 2011, 07:21 PM   #174
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They are protesting against growing corporate INFLUENCE in politics! These MUTI-NATIONAL corps. are BUYING their way into politics,thru lobbying.
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Old October 19th, 2011, 01:40 AM   #175
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First off I'll be honest and say that i don't actually know what is meant by "critical thinking". A quick Google search and Wikipedia read leads my to believe that it's what we used to call common sense and not being an idiot (which I always try to do, and sometime succeed at). But I'm open to the possibility that it is something more that I don't understand.

If my understanding is correct I think there is a lack of critical thinking at the extreme flanks of every issue. Nearly every line of thought falls apart when carried to the Nth degree, which is why I conclude the only reasonable position on most issues is a central one.

I understand what your saying about them being used by politicians, I think that ultimately happens with nearly every movement. They get co-opted by someone with an agenda. I'll go back to my first comment to this thread ;

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So they're a lot like the Tea Party people then?
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Old October 19th, 2011, 05:33 PM   #176
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A big long article about diparity of wealth and economic mobility.

http://www.brookings.edu/reports/200...y_sawhill.aspx

I haven't read it yet.
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Old October 19th, 2011, 06:55 PM   #177
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Here's a little more insight on this topic:http://money.msn.com/investing/what-...ght-brush.aspx
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Old October 19th, 2011, 10:02 PM   #178
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On one hand the consumer bears all the responsibility. On the other it is all the governments fault? But isn’t the government just a puppet of the special interest groups (ie big business).

Its so confusing. Let me see if I have this straight. Bob the mortgage broker has to live a responsible personal life, live within his means, pay his debts and be an all around good citizen. The second he gets to work all that goes out the window and he can do just about anything in search of profits. He can write a mortgage to someone he knows can’t afford it and that’s ok. He has no risk, he’ll get paid. By the time the homeowner defaults on the mortgage it will have been sold many times with someone getting paid at every transaction. Why should he care? Why should anyone care, unless of course they are holding the hot potato when the bubble bursts? But its all ok ‘cause it just good business to seek profit. Do I finally understand it correctly?

So the exec who needs huge compensation AND incentives AND golden parachutes to do his job (imagine if everyone had to get bonuses and other incentives just to do their jobs?) and makes short term decisions to satisfy Wall Street for the purpose of raising the stock price (and therefore his stock option bonus), that hurt both the company and America in the long term, is to be revered and praised for his pursuit of profit? And the small business owner who changes his company’s name regularly to skip out on his debts, who has expendable workers mixing noxious chemicals with no protection (they have trouble breathing and go home sick) is not to be viewed with distain since he’s just seeking to maximize profit, so its all good business? Yes?


Yes people should have to take responsibility for their choices. For example, bankruptcy should not be allowed (at least in its current form) and people should be held accountable for their actions. That accountability shouldn’t stop when people go to work. Business and government are made of people. People make the decisions, not the business. Without personal risk and accountability, especially at work, people will continue to make poor decisions in search of easy profits (ie greed). If everyone could magically behave totally responsible in their personal lives, but business in this country continued on unchanged, we will still fail in the long run.

As has been already been mentioned in several different ways, our society’s collective moral compass must change. Instead of always seeking personal gain without regard to the long term consequences we need to start asking ourselves what is best for our country, our communities, our families, and our own futures. We need to apply that mind set to our private lives, as many of you are saying. More importantly we need to bring that mindset to our workplaces. How that change will come about is anyone’s guess. Maybe these protests are the start of that change, of society moving away from the “greed is good” mentality toward a less self-serving way of thought. If nothing else these protests have got people talking about the subject.
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Old October 20th, 2011, 09:07 PM   #179
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VERY well said
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Old October 20th, 2011, 09:09 PM   #180
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Here's some insight from the wall street journal:http://money.msn.com/mutual-fund/cap...id=vt_twmsnmon
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