Best way to build centered housing axle. - Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest

Go Back   Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > 4x4 Talk > Toyota Tech
GL4x4 Live! GL4x4 Casino

greatlakes4x4.com is the premier Great Lakes 4x4 Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Search
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old September 20th, 2011, 12:31 PM   #1
cerial
Senior Member
 
cerial's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-06-08
Location: Caledonia,MI
Posts: 1,751
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default Best way to build centered housing axle.

I am building a rig from the ground up and need some fj62 axle advise. I have a set of 87 fj62 axles.
I after much kicking and screaming I finally realized I needed to changed my transfer to a atlas2 with a center output. I still Like the fj-62 parts availability and the strong 4.11 3rd of the fj62 axle over other guys. I keep going back and forth the best way to actually build this centered housing axle. I admit I don't know much about Toyota's except that these axles are dang impressive. I have always been more of a Chevy, Ford, Jeep guy and am now realizing how Nice some of these Toyota parts are.

I like the 4.11 gearing it works real nice with the 465/atlas2 and could see myself getting a spare stock 3rd set just in case with the 4.11 gearing.

My current plan involves getting a 58" Housing from diamond, installing Longs, a full floater kit, a disk break upgrade, using the old 9.5 4.11 carrier that I have, and installing some type of selectable locker.

I am also looking to beef the Breaks on this thing with larger calipers. I am looking to drive the heck out of this with something that I can submerge in mud during the weekend and still rely on to stop me while cruising down the highway. I don't need e breaks in the rear I will fab up some type of transfer case e break.
I would like to keep maintenance cost down on this by using for instance the cheaper style rotors and some beefy calipers with low cost pads to stop this thing and would not mind replacing the pads every year or freak if I had to replace the rotors at the same time.

As far as the front axle goes it is dang near perfect. I could see using it as mock up at the very least. For the money of sending it out for a proper cut and turn I might just upgrade to a beefier 60" front housing from diamond. I could see installing some longs and rebuilding the hubs in the front housing and calling it good.

What I am looking for is some advise on what would be the best route to go about this. And for that matter what would be the best parts to use. I plan on running 35" tires on 16x10" aluminum rims with no offset. But, I am going to be running this a bit hard through the woods mostly sliding down hills full of leaves and mud into trees and such. Most of my wheeling has been done down this trail cause it is so close. Don't worry it is a 8 mile long trail I made over the years on private property it is just really easy to slide into stuff and with the tires sticking out 3" from the body they will take a good amount of beating. I tread lightly I just end up using trees to bounce me back onto this trail. When on other trails I stick to others tracks.
The axles will be getting slid into or ran into things left and right, I need good hubs and bearings, so I'm not rebuilding them every weekend. I could see rebuilding the hubs/bearings every year around October as long as it is not out of the world expensive.

I think I am alright going with the stock knuckles with 35" tires but am here for advise so toss it at me on these.

Would I be better off strength>cost wise building this myself with the best parts from A, B, and C off road or simply mailing my 3rd to Diamond, or just giving diamond a call and saying "this is what I want"?

I have hydraulics on top of ride-tech air ride on top of long arms for the suspension. So there would not be any need for a ARB compressor that would add to the axle cost.

I don't want to just waist money but do realize good stuff is not cheap. If I could get away building the rear for under $2500(with the selectable locker) and the front under $2000 I would be really pleased.

Just looking for the best way (and best parts for the money) to go about building these axles. Thanks for any advise In advance.
cerial is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old September 20th, 2011, 01:51 PM   #2
Haggar
Covered in mud...
 
Haggar's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-06-05
Location: Oxford, MI
Posts: 17,648
iTrader: (55)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

For 35s, there's no reason to go through quite so much trouble.

35s will not hurt standard mini truck stuff.

Use a standard front, with either 1.5" spacers, or IFS hubs, and you'll be at 58.5-59" wide. The 86+ rear housing is strong, and 58" wide, and centered already.

Don't get me wrong, diamond axles are pimp. But if you are big enough to need them, you need more width. 35s are nothing on toys.

4.10s are the standard gears, and you can bring a stock 3rd member with you. There are factory low and high pinion e-lockers available from TRD tacomas/4 runners, and FJ80 fronts, respectively, which came also with 4.10s.

The rear axle needs nothing. factory 4.10s are very strong, as are the shafts. I completely abused mine with 1.5" spacers (to make it 61" wide) with heavy 38.5 swamper SXs. The shafts are very very strong.

For a front, a 84-85 housing, 1.5" spacers, 59" wide. Upgrade to longfield 30 splines. Upgrade to ARP knuckle Studs and high steer arms. The factory aisin hubs are plenty strong for 35s. For peace of mind, ARB hub studs and chrome moly hub gears are nice. I didn't use them with 36s, no failures. Upgraded when I went to 38.5s.

Brakes: Nice way is up front, use 88+ 'V6' calipers (have fins on them), and ~1980-ish FJ40 (vented rotors). With 15" rims, you usually have to grind, they should clear 16" rims fine. Now take your front rotors and old calipers and put them on the rear, using some bolt-on brackets. This, with a dual diaphram booster and 1" master easily could lock my 38.5s, and they are all factory parts available at the store.

I have built a custom toyota housing, I believe I have a post on here about it, but the pics are gone. Its not TOO hard, but you need a welder, lathe, metal saws, alignment bar and pucks, etc.

IMO, you don't need custom housings for that width, 35s, and a lightweight Jeep. These are very strong axles for their size.

LOL, I'm been rough on you some times but not out of spite, just the questioning engineer in me.

If you wanted to go with mini truck axles, let me know, I have a set that'd work great for you, very cheap. (I have an 85 front, 87 rear, 4.10s in them.) I was going to use them in my fiberglass CJ3b, but between my Scramber, and my hot-rod CJ6 project, I have no time for the old flattie....
Haggar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 20th, 2011, 04:30 PM   #3
cerial
Senior Member
 
cerial's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-06-08
Location: Caledonia,MI
Posts: 1,751
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Yea those hilux parts are impressive and I went back and forth looking at them and the many options they have. That break setup sounds like a very strong reliable idea. I have seen other guys talking about upgrading to vented calipers.

Dropping the 9.5 for a 8" seems like the wrong direction. Which is why I dismissed it earlier on. The 9.5 is far from perfect being a pain to set up correctly. It is sure not something I want to do in a hurry so I can be to work on Monday. Won't I need to go to cryo r/p if I use the 8". This takes the whole stock replacement 3rd idea and tosses it out the window if I need to setup a beefier r/p using the 8".

The whole idea about Building the center rear housing was so that I could use the 9.5 3rd. The front really does not need a beefier housing I was just looking at the cost of sending out the stock housing for a professional cut and turn and for like $400 more I can upgrade to a thicker housing while doing the cut/turn from diamond that would not need all the gusseting.

I don't see myself buying a lathe any time soon. They take up a lot of space, cost a lot, and I don't see myself using it more then once or twice a year. I had a industrial press drill in my last garage. I was all gun ho when I got it but after like a month of use it was just in the way.

Don't get me wrong I'm totally interested and heck the additional clearance of the 8" is nice. I'm just a little weary about chucking the 9.5 3rd for a 8". When I first started looking at Toyota axles a 85 hilux was top of the list. It just did not work with the ps/ps drop I had planned at the time and the fj62 seemed to be the perfect fix while being stronger.
The hp8" in the front would further help with clearance and I looked at going with a 8"front/9.5 rear because of it when looking at making the ps/ps setup. I decided against it because I tend to run more rpm's in reverse spinning the wheels faster to walk out after getting stuck and the 9.5 is stronger in reverse. With the 4.10/4.11 not really being a concern. It is still something I am considering if I don't use the 9.5 in the front.
cerial is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 20th, 2011, 06:08 PM   #4
cerial
Senior Member
 
cerial's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-06-08
Location: Caledonia,MI
Posts: 1,751
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post
IMO, you don't need custom housings for that width, 35s, and a lightweight Jeep. These are very strong axles for their size.
I never said this would be light.

Actually this thing is turning out to be a whole lot of heavy. It should be around 5800 lbs total. That is on the heavy side and I'm doing my best moving stuff around in the small space so that it will be close to a 55f/45r distribution. It has a dual layer suspension and a dual cage providing a extremely safe/capable on/off road ride. This is a very small rig but sure as heck wont be no buggy.
cerial is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 22nd, 2011, 08:54 AM   #5
Haggar
Covered in mud...
 
Haggar's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-06-05
Location: Oxford, MI
Posts: 17,648
iTrader: (55)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

If you would be 5800 lbs, I'd go get a set of FJ80 axles and run them. Thats an ungodly amount of weight.

For 35s, the 8" diffs seem to hold up just fine. Look at what the Ftoys.

5800lbs is ridiculous. You know that any minimal beenfit to the crazy suspension is gone due to that weight. You'll sink in everything, and have not enough power to get wheelspeed.

A leaf sprung 4 cyl jeep would wheel better than that thing. Seriously, would wheel circles around it.
Haggar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 22nd, 2011, 11:14 AM   #6
BOGDOG
Senior Member
 
BOGDOG's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-11-06
Location: White Lake/Wixom
Posts: 2,255
iTrader: (7)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Brakes: Nice way is up front, use 88+ 'V6' calipers (have fins on them), and ~1980-ish FJ40 (vented rotors). With 15" rims, you usually have to grind, they should clear 16" rims fine. Now take your front rotors and old calipers and put them on the rear, using some bolt-on brackets. This, with a dual diaphram booster and 1" master easily could lock my 38.5s, and they are all factory parts available at the store.

Haggar what do you have to grind to clear 15" rims? The calipers? Who sells the brackets for the rear disc? What did the booster & master cyl come from? I am thinking about pulling the 35's off my Bronco and putting them on my 85 4Runner and need to redo the brakes anyway.
BOGDOG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 22nd, 2011, 12:46 PM   #7
Haggar
Covered in mud...
 
Haggar's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-06-05
Location: Oxford, MI
Posts: 17,648
iTrader: (55)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BOGDOG View Post
Brakes: Nice way is up front, use 88+ 'V6' calipers (have fins on them), and ~1980-ish FJ40 (vented rotors). With 15" rims, you usually have to grind, they should clear 16" rims fine. Now take your front rotors and old calipers and put them on the rear, using some bolt-on brackets. This, with a dual diaphram booster and 1" master easily could lock my 38.5s, and they are all factory parts available at the store.

Haggar what do you have to grind to clear 15" rims? The calipers? Who sells the brackets for the rear disc? What did the booster & master cyl come from? I am thinking about pulling the 35's off my Bronco and putting them on my 85 4Runner and need to redo the brakes anyway.
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest - View Single Post - Rear disc breaks on the Cheap



Pirate4x4.Com Bulletin Board - View Single Post - disc brake conversion detailed writeup



I had to grind the fins a little bit on the calipers. There are other applications for the master and booster. The toy stuff was all bolt in. There are tundra applications as well.
Haggar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 22nd, 2011, 01:32 PM   #8
974x4Taco
Flex Is OverRated
 
974x4Taco's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-19-06
Location: Battle Creek
Posts: 2,031
iTrader: (7)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Imo fror's taco brake kit is the way to go on toyota solid axles. Bigger brakes and easier to change broken parts. You could even use first gen tundra stuff in place of the taco stuff for even more stoping power.
974x4Taco is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 22nd, 2011, 05:17 PM   #9
ron86toy
R&V Ranger
 
ron86toy's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10-09-06
Location: Beaverton/ Edenville,mi
Posts: 1,033
iTrader: (10)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Send a message via Yahoo to ron86toy
Default

you can always save your money and run the stock housing with a cv on the driveshaft...same route I am doing with an fj80 rear...Collin(from GA.) has been running one for a while in his Taco that way and no problems...daily drives it too

got cope?\\\\\\\\\\'s Tacoma Evolution - TTORA Forum
ron86toy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 22nd, 2011, 11:27 PM   #10
cerial
Senior Member
 
cerial's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-06-08
Location: Caledonia,MI
Posts: 1,751
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

The weight estimate breaks down like this.

700 1.75 .120/.250 Body/cage(280 feet with tabs/brackets)
300 3/4" Hdpe Body(removable exterior panels/glass)
400 3/4" Uhmwpe Body (non removable panels)
650 Motor(with accessories)
100 Oil system/Fire suppression system
250 Trans/bell
200 Transfer/shafts
400 Frame/reinforcement/tabs
400 Tri link linkage/axle protection/Hydro linkage/Steering
400 Hydro (cylinders, pumps, controls, etc)
200 Air(tank,bags, controls)
150 20 gal Lp Fuel/tanks
400 5 Tires/rims
500 Axles/bracing
200 Air Seats/Audio system
300 Recovery items/winch
250 other

5800 Total

Removable Body Modifications that will change weight over 300 standard weight.
Over lander setup with additional spare,additional 20 gal fuel, and 80 lb of supplies.
+500
3/4" Hdpe Security panels replacing doors/glass
-100
1/8"-3/4" Steel security panels replacing doors/glass for long term parking
+600

Door modifications that will change 60 lb HD tube door with power windows weight
Plexiglass door(15lb with hinge/locks)
-45
Tube door w net/lock
-40

......,...,......
[___]__\____\___
[***]##]./**0llllll0
(o)_)'''''''''(o)_)o--)_)
cerial is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 23rd, 2011, 12:49 AM   #11
cerial
Senior Member
 
cerial's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-06-08
Location: Caledonia,MI
Posts: 1,751
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

The 80 housings are not cheap and would require bracing to come close to what diamond could offer. Yes I get the floater, a selectable locker, and one beefy 3rd. But, I want this to be 70" outside tire to outside tire. A stock 80 would be wider then I want requiring custom wheels with a offset that would have me hitting the hubs into things. I could see dropping $1500 into buying a stock 80, upgrading the breaks, shafts, shortening, and rebuilding it.

Beefing a 8" makes a lot more sense then using a 80 to me.

Actually the more I look at the 8" setup that Jesus mentioned the better it looks. Think I will end up upgrading the r/p anyway for security over wondering how many miles the old had. The hp front would avoid vibration issues and I always see there always being a aftermarket for it.

I just don't know the amount of gusseting(that may deform the housing) would be required for the weight or If I would be better off just going with a thicker housing from diamond that would eliminate any need for gusseting.
cerial is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 23rd, 2011, 12:50 AM   #12
cerial
Senior Member
 
cerial's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-06-08
Location: Caledonia,MI
Posts: 1,751
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

The 80 housings are not cheap and would require bracing to come close to what diamond could offer. Yes I get the floater, a selectable locker, and one beefy 3rd. But, I want this to be 70" outside tire to outside tire. A stock 80 would be wider then I want requiring custom wheels with a offset that would have me hitting the hubs into things. I could see dropping $1500 into buying a stock 80, upgrading the breaks, shafts, shortening, and rebuilding it.

Beefing a 8" makes a lot more sense then using a 80 to me.

Actually the more I look at the 8" setup that (edit) mentioned the better it looks. Think I will end up upgrading the r/p anyway for security over wondering how many miles the old had. The hp front would avoid vibration issues and I always see there always being a aftermarket for it.

I just don't know the amount of gusseting(that may deform the housing) would be required for the weight or If I would be better off just going with a thicker housing from diamond that would eliminate any need for gusseting.

Last edited by cerial; September 23rd, 2011 at 12:54 AM. Reason: you changed haggars name
cerial is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 23rd, 2011, 05:11 AM   #13
chadcooper55
expert jeep disassembler
 
chadcooper55's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-28-08
Location: kent city mi
Posts: 8,030
iTrader: (20)
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Default

What are you using the 1 3/4 .250 for on your cage? Why do you need 700# worth of 3/4" plastic for the body? It seems like you are trying so hard to make this thing indestructible that you are actually going backwards. The less weight you have the less stress on all your components. Your thought process; I need to beef up the body to prevent damage, wow that is heavy I need bigger components to handle the weight, Damn now that shit weighs more I need to beef up the body a bit more, Damn now I need bigger axles to handle the extra weight, exc..... Stop thinking like an engineer and spend some time going to offroad parks and competitions and check out the rigs that work. You think waaaaay to much!
chadcooper55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 23rd, 2011, 07:50 AM   #14
Haggar
Covered in mud...
 
Haggar's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-06-05
Location: Oxford, MI
Posts: 17,648
iTrader: (55)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chadcooper55 View Post
What are you using the 1 3/4 .250 for on your cage? Why do you need 700# worth of 3/4" plastic for the body? It seems like you are trying so hard to make this thing indestructible that you are actually going backwards. The less weight you have the less stress on all your components. Your thought process; I need to beef up the body to prevent damage, wow that is heavy I need bigger components to handle the weight, Damn now that shit weighs more I need to beef up the body a bit more, Damn now I need bigger axles to handle the extra weight, exc..... Stop thinking like an engineer and spend some time going to offroad parks and competitions and check out the rigs that work. You think waaaaay to much!
We know. We've tried to explain it to him before. It doesn't sink in.

Lot of those weights are pretty silly anyway. V6 engine = 425 lbs, not 650.

700lb body and 1100 frame/cage.
1000 lb suspension.

Its utterly crazy. And won't work worth a crap. And *will* be far more breakage/failure prone, due to excess weight and complexity.

Should go the exact other way:

150 1.75 .120 cage(60 feet with tabs/brackets)
350 Fiberglass body, steel front clip.
300 2.4 ecotec Motor(with accessories)
100 Trans/bell
120 Transfer/shafts
200 Frame/reinforcement/tabs
120 lbs links and air shocks
100lbs gas tank + 15 gallons
400 5 Tires/rims
500 Jeep XJ Axles or Toyota Axles
100 Suspension Seats/Audio system
150 Recovery items/winch
250 other (battery, radiator, exhaust)

2840 lbs wet.

It would be more reliable, and wheel better, and get better economy, and actually fit inside a Jeep body.

You are adding weight/materials just on the notion that more = better.
5800 Total
Haggar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 23rd, 2011, 07:07 PM   #15
cerial
Senior Member
 
cerial's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-06-08
Location: Caledonia,MI
Posts: 1,751
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

When I first started this build I was going to get a repi tub toss it on and restore this thing. That's why I went out a day after buying it and bought a dauntless after finding it had a 231 under the hood incited of the 225. It is also the reason I bought a Myers top and doors. The fj62 axles were the only drive train Mod I planned because they were close to the original 55" size and the spring mounts were close making them perfect as a 3/4 ton alternative to a 44.

Then I started thinking about rust. I did not want to paint this thing every 5 years cause I actually drove it year round. So the steel was out. Then yea I looked at fiberglass. But then I thought back to what I plan on using this for; woods wheeling. Where branches are dragging the sides and I could see that pretty fiberglass body becoming a hanging shattered mess of fibers real quick.

There was also the safety factor. Super light glass bodies are great. But, in a accident they are worthless. There is 15" between the outside of the door to the inside of the cage. The seat sits in about half of that space. In a accident more then half the driver would be crushed. To fix this you toss a 150 lb 3" thick tube underneath held in by 8 bolts and for some reason that is ok.

So I looked for something that would be rustproof yet I would not freak if a soccer mom slammed her door into it. The composite bodies I found were poor at best. And the idea of a plastic panels using a exo skin seemed like it could be made easily enough. Originally, I had a basic family cage in mind. Cutting out the rear upright so that the glass could slide in/out then welding tabs so it could be bolted in to hold the glass seemed like a good idea. In a roll over this area would crush down but with no passengers it was not really a concern. I decided I would make a tube lift gate that would reinforce the weak rear uprights and be able to slide the glass out the bottom for the back. The trouble came when I wanted to have the roof slide out to make a safari. I could not go out the back the tailgate would need a spot to hinge. Not to mention all the cross bracing. So I came up with the idea of a removable bar at the top of the windshield. Once this was slid out the drivers side sideways the roof could be removed and the windshield could also if I ever felt the need.
This tubing had 1/8 "tabs" that hold on the 3/4" panels in a tongue and grove setup. This allows me to slide different panels in or out. The 3/4" panels have the tab on the inside and mount flush to the outside of the tube letting 1/8" hang over the pipe . the 1/8" glass has the tabs surrounding it.

But the body/frame consisted of 2 profile outside tubes. With no cross bracing it would fold over. So I started adding cross bracing. The idea of incorporating the wheel wells into the cross bracing lead me to add panels on them and the floor. Before long the entire tub was a series of tubes on the profile that would be welded to the frame.

I have ripped my fair share of fender flares off. And see guys welding up these heavy tube fenders and knew there could be a better way. I came up with the idea of retractable fenders. Think of a flat fender. Now put flat panels under the fender that are on a track that slide in. Boom retractable fenders. You have the ability to push them in for areas that would crush them or pull them out to catch mud or just be legal on the road. I'm a automation freak and I seen a window motor as the perfect method to push rods and push out the fenders. Well because those fenders are now lower you need to raise them so the tube idea went to the hood. While I was there I thought why not make the hood tilt forward. Why not make it tilt forward 180 degrees so it could serve as a workstation instead of the tight trunk area. So I decided on a 2" tall hood with arms that would slide forward to serve as feet after they were unlocked. Well then I thought of the windshield wipers. These tiny things are a insult in the mud but how could you improve them. euro wipers would leave a huge V in the middle. I went back and forth then noticed a rear wiper on a suv that was moving 180 degrees. After a lot of failed designs. I came up with the idea of a track that had 2 wheels at the bottom that would look like well (oIo) this track would have a normal wiper under it to keep pressure on it then I would have a second track on the upright section (I) that the 180 wiper would turn. It would allow the wiper to cover dang near the entire windshield left to right leaving just the outside few inches. Well I really wanted this to work But I could see the track filling full of ice if it was just placed under the windshield out in the open. So the hood was moved back and the tub area there lowered covering the track of the windshield system. So at this point I had pretty much slightly changed then entire shape of the tub and looked back at the cage. After looking at a lot of crashes from cages that"worked" seeing most of them fail after 1 or 2 rolls I decided a spider like "inner cage" would guarantee I would not end up dead.

The inner cage has the only .250 on a pillars to prevent the top from forcing the tubing into the driver. Because the outer cage has the removable cross brace there.

You seen me talk about the tank thing worried about clearance and settled on raising the floor to make it work before deciding propane would be dependable low cost fix compared to FI.
This whole propane thing was a hard kick to the balls. But, I learned a lot from you guys. While looking at the propane thing I dabbled into other aftermarket parts for the dauntless finding next to nothing. OK no big it is dang near perfect no need to mess with it. Lets look at rebuilding it though. ok 800-1000 in parts not including the crank. Surly my trusty scat can help. no only for the 231 it is different. ok well long story A 350 was looking better and better and finding crate engines or even a 350 anywhere for around $500 t seemed like a good idea. Well, while I'm at it why not just spend some more and consider a torque monster. Humm the t-14 surly wont handle that so I looked to my t-18 that I have used behind 460's without any issue. Then the transfer case became the issue. ok so I will ditch that and go with a atlas. Oh but now that I did that the t-18 wont work so I guess a 465 is a better choice. But now that I have this great Power train I need to move the rear housing to a center. Which is where we are now.

So yea totaling it all up the weight is a issue. And I am being a huge hypocrite because for years I have been giving people beef about bolt on armor, tube fenders, using heavy engines knowing what the end result would be.

So I have a dilemma. I have a lot into tools but as far as the jeep goes I really have not done jack to it except get the 231 to run for a bit. Between the jeep itself for a grand, the 25k 225 dauntless that I paid a grand for, the 350 top/doors, the rebuilt jeep/ford t-18 that I got down south for 400. I have about 3 grand invested.


I have like 5k in tools but I'm not counting them cause I am sure i would buy them anyway later.

The whole idea of building a rig is to have something someone else does not. Any yahoo can follow others cookie cutter plans and make a copy of there rig.
But, heck if I wanted a rig like everyone else I would just but the dang thing already built saving a lot of cash in the process.

Honestly though I am saving up for a house and this toy is going to cost me a lot of money. I have thought a few times about just buying someones rig completed and forgetting about this. I'm trying to have my cake and eat it also. Making a comfy luxury suv into a off road project is something that is really hard. Heck I could get a sweet driver and a pos that I could rag around in without worrying about it like I have done in the past for less then what this thing will cost.

Eventually you just need to see when the thing does not make sense.



This thing started out as a replacement for Goliath.

Goliath was a truck style buggy on unmodified 5 tons using a center mounted transverse Honda 1.8 motor. Top speed like faster then I dare to go. No transfer case needed with the light weight aluminum civic motor/trans and coil sprung rocks with a 9.whatever ratio running on whatever tires I found laying around. With like 700 pounds of un sprung weight including my butt and fuel I could fly over anything that got in the way. With like a 22/1 low ratio it was not a crawler in any sense. More of a runner death trap that I hoped I never rolled. But, as far as something that was bulletproof and a easy first rig it seemed to fit. Best of all I was looking at like 2k total investment(unmodified rocks/high mileage rust bucked mid 90's civic).

I just tried to make something that was a double duty and yea it got out of control.

Heck, with all the shiny tools I have in boxes I'm pretty sure I could make Goliath in under a weekend If I set out the parts before hand.

Will take a step back on this and do some thinking. Sorry for all the stupid questions in thinking this project up. It is all part of the noob learning process.
cerial is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 23rd, 2011, 09:04 PM   #16
ron86toy
R&V Ranger
 
ron86toy's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10-09-06
Location: Beaverton/ Edenville,mi
Posts: 1,033
iTrader: (10)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Send a message via Yahoo to ron86toy
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cerial View Post
The 80 housings are not cheap and would require bracing to come close to what diamond could offer. Yes I get the floater, a selectable locker, and one beefy 3rd. But, I want this to be 70" outside tire to outside tire. A stock 80 would be wider then I want requiring custom wheels with a offset that would have me hitting the hubs into things. I could see dropping $1500 into buying a stock 80, upgrading the breaks, shafts, shortening, and rebuilding it.

Beefing a 8" makes a lot more sense then using a 80 to me.
you can get 80 rears with elocker/disk brakes for 600 bucks all day....if you feel the need to narrow it you will only need to do the long side...I would bet you would have less then 1100 bucks into it including gear change(if needed),shortened/respline axle and bracing(I dont believe its needed)....80 axles are some tough bastards...a decked out 80 wieghs in @ 7500lbs easy

Diamonds are nice but why go through that money for an 8" 3rd(it comes as a bare housing and all the little crap adds up quick...you will end up with a 2k rear axle)...be cheaper getting the TG housings and gaining some clearance
ron86toy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 23rd, 2011, 09:20 PM   #17
chadcooper55
expert jeep disassembler
 
chadcooper55's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-28-08
Location: kent city mi
Posts: 8,030
iTrader: (20)
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Default

I think you should make a mini brewery in there in case you need a beer and then a boot dryer in case you step in a puddle and what if you need a hair cut? This is x to da z xzibit and you've been pimped!
chadcooper55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24th, 2011, 02:28 PM   #18
cerial
Senior Member
 
cerial's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-06-08
Location: Caledonia,MI
Posts: 1,751
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Currently working with a earlier fast back design and reworking the heck out of it. This has the entire back of the rig open behind the driver letting me run 20 gallons of propane and a full spare of any size easily while having room for a extra 2 tanks and a second spare. The frame is not going to be used. Leaving the entire 1969 jeep untouched. Instead I am going with a slim downed cage that still lets me use the removable panel idea(no removable windshield). This raises a security issue with the tanks and spare being out in the open. But the "security" panels were meant to only be used when long term parked and I am sure I can make some kind of system that I can leave at the house and will bolt on.

Updated weights.

650 1.75x.120 Body/cage/windshield/frame 280 feet with tabs/brackets
180 3/8" Hdpe Body(removable exterior panels)
120 1/8" Uhmwpe Body (non removable panels)
600 350(with accessories)(less then 250ft/lb)using for easy low cost replacement
200 465 Trans/cast bell
150 Dana 18 Transfer/shafts
150 Tri link/Steering
300 Coil overs/shocks(estimate)
160 20 pounds of propane 2 tanks(will double with 4 for long trips)
400 5 Tires/rims
500 Axles/bracing
200 Air Seats/Audio system
200 Recovery items/winch
200 Other-sure I am leaving out a lot

4010 Total

Still seems heavy as heck considering what I took out. But, by using a stock like truck 350 ($500-1k replacement cost) with torque of less then 250 I wont worry about breaking the Dana 18 letting me have the overdrive and keeping the ps drop that I really wanted. This is still very safe letting me rub trees while costing 9k less then the air/hydro/atlas and crate engine setup.
cerial is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > 4x4 Talk > Toyota Tech
Tags
axles, cerial, fj62, overcomplicateseverything, project pj, toyota

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:03 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright 2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Page generated in 0.62969 seconds with 75 queries