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Old August 25th, 2011, 11:48 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plato2k5 View Post
My jeep sees around 600 miles a year. I plan to put the tires on a different set of rims and swap them over when I go wheeling.

I was looking at tsl's. Never seen km2 ill have to look them up
Swamper SSR or TSL.

KM2 is the BF Goodrich Mud Terrain.
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Old August 25th, 2011, 12:52 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plato2k5 View Post
I plan to put the tires on a different set of rims and swap them over when I go wheeling.
So these would be 100% dedicated offroad tires? You HAVE to go stickies. There is no question. Krawler red labels, comp MTRs, comp Treps, sticky IROCs, etc.
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Old August 25th, 2011, 12:57 PM   #23
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Bill, While I agree with you, oddly while in SD, we had 4 rigs on 39" red Krawlers and one on 42" LTB's (I think) and we never saw much difference. Oh, and I can tell you they don't make any difference at the Mounds.
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Old August 25th, 2011, 01:11 PM   #24
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oh, yeah, gotta have stickies for silver lake wheeling. They are awesome in the snow too.

I would go 39.5" iroks, or well grooved 38.5 SXs.

If you see enough rocks to warrant them, stickies are nice. They will add nothing in sand, and most dirt situations, and will hurt you bad in the snow. So you need to examine what you are doing.

In a situation like driving in loose, off camber Michigan forest type trails, I'd take a grooved SX anyday over a krawler, or Maxxis CC (treps are good, though).
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Old August 25th, 2011, 05:38 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post
oh, yeah, gotta have stickies for silver lake wheeling. They are awesome in the snow too.

I would go 39.5" iroks, or well grooved 38.5 SXs.

If you see enough rocks to warrant them, stickies are nice. They will add nothing in sand, and most dirt situations, and will hurt you bad in the snow. So you need to examine what you are doing.
And you've driven BFG stickies in the sand how many times???
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Old August 25th, 2011, 11:09 PM   #26
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If 100% offroad tires I suggest krawlers, maxxis creepy crawler stickies, or grooved swamper sx's!
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Old August 25th, 2011, 11:11 PM   #27
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I would guess super swampers.
Bias or radials
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Old August 26th, 2011, 06:31 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2fst4you View Post
If 100% offroad tires I suggest krawlers, maxxis creepy crawler stickies, or grooved swamper sx's!
What ones off them have you ran?
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Old August 26th, 2011, 07:44 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bones View Post
And you've driven BFG stickies in the sand how many times???
Never. doesn't matter one bit if I haven't. The μ of the surface/tire junction doesn't matter on dune type sand.


We can ask Whiterhino who has both the 39" IRoks and red labels, and does plenty of sand.

Last edited by Haggar; August 26th, 2011 at 08:02 AM.
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Old August 26th, 2011, 07:46 AM   #30
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What ones off them have you ran?
None but he's locked front and rear on 35's so you shouldn't question his statement.
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Old August 26th, 2011, 08:02 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2fst4you View Post
If 100% offroad tires I suggest krawlers, maxxis creepy crawler stickies, or grooved swamper sx's!
The one big issue a lot of people have with stickies, is that they tend to do poorly in ice and snow situations due to the rubber compound. For some, this is important, some not.


Traction in different situations comes in different ways (Although I don't do it anymore, I spent years in our ABS/Traction group. Haha, Bones' company pays us when they want to know about traction..).

On hard surface, like rock (especially dry), hard packed dirt, pavement, etc, the tire compound is king. With offroad situations, a good carcass and tread design that will wrap around obstacles and grab them is also key.

On sand, its width/flexibility/floation. The tire must be able to be spun, as the thrust from throwing sand backwards is a key component of forward thrust. Braking needs to build up sand piles in front of the tire.

On mud, same floatation/thrust rules, but more aggressive to keep the tread blocks clean

On Snow, also basically the same rules as sand. Narrow tread gaps help retain snow, which the snow on snow traction is big aid in tration. Sipes also do this, and break water tension and add more edges on ice. Since none of the major off road tires are windter compound, the rubber doesn't matter, except don't run sticky compounds that harden and are more porous and freeze up.

On mixed 'forest' trails (picture winding through the forest, usually damp logs, leaves, moss, very loose dirt, etc), high void ratio and a tread that works in all directions works well. Think of motocross bike tires. Old school knobby type tires with lots of small square/rectangle tread blocks work well for this type of thing. There isn't anything like that exactly from the factory, but this is why old school TSLs work well, and much better than a TSL Bogger in this type of wheeling. If you get out the grooving iron, and modify a regular TSL, they really work well. Increases the void ratio and the number of small tread blocks that will individually sink into the dirt and grab on (and increases carcass flex and footprint size).



Those are the typical things that most people do around here. There's no tire that is the best for all of them. If you do all of them, hten finding a good all-around tire is best. Thats why the IRoks and TSLs / SXs are so popular, they do evreything pretty decent, and can be made quite a bit better with a little work. If your style and budget allow for stickies, and you have a rig thats going to make use of them well, go for it.

In my personal experience, SXs and Iroks are two of the best all around 'michigan' tires, in that tire size, if you are running 1 single set of tires. Pitbull Rockers also work real well, but were VERY heavy and far worse about 25 mph on my ride than SXs (and SXs are heavy and bad onroad, so that says something..). I had some issues on my beadlocks because the beads were so thick on the PBRs also.

In general michigan mixed/forest trail riding, having riden with people on red labels, the compound did not overcome
the lack of tread block traction (and sidewalls are not good for traction or surviving roots), and overall performed worse than the grooved SXs on those types of trails.

On slick rock in Tellico, the red labels were night and day better than the non stickies in all flavors. All depends on what you plan to do.

Last edited by Haggar; August 26th, 2011 at 08:07 AM.
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Old August 26th, 2011, 08:22 AM   #32
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Best all around tire in my opinion are iroks. Comp stickies are over rated if you don't get them for next to nothing
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Old August 26th, 2011, 08:33 AM   #33
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Quote:
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Best all around tire in my opinion are iroks. Comp stickies are over rated if you don't get them for next to nothing
They all work good on jackstands
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Old August 26th, 2011, 08:36 AM   #34
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Well I've had Cooper ats, BFG at, and BFG mt. I'm also locked in the rear running 32's. But my zero experience tells me TSL bias is the hands down winner.
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Old August 26th, 2011, 10:48 AM   #35
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They all work good on jackstands
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Old August 26th, 2011, 11:15 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2fst4you View Post
If 100% offroad tires I suggest krawlers, maxxis creepy crawler stickies, or grooved swamper sx's!
He shoots, and a miss
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Old August 29th, 2011, 02:04 PM   #37
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I haven't ran anything but dueler ats and km2s I just have seen those tires perform and have heard people talk good about them. For silver lake and bundy hill which doesn't have much rock I would rungrooved sx's which id love to have or iroks as stated more then once! You can even groove the iroks if your feeling crazy. Goodluck
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Old August 29th, 2011, 02:58 PM   #38
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That's insane!!! I do not recommend grooving Iroks, you'll reverse the rotation of the earth with a good pedal mash! For the sake of humanity, please don't groove Iroks!
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Old August 29th, 2011, 03:08 PM   #39
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Old August 29th, 2011, 03:47 PM   #40
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off road the swapmers are hard to beat. i have run 33" tsl bias, 37" ssr's, and now 42" iroks. off road the iroks are nice. on the pavement the ssr's were great, and still pretty good off road.

i also ran a set of 35" old style mtr's. they pretty much blew in most any condition.

if i was looking at a dual purpose tire street & trail it would be ssr's

Last edited by joe_jeep; August 29th, 2011 at 03:51 PM.
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