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Old September 18th, 2006, 09:43 PM   #1
BooGTS
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Watch the loose change video. Man these people will say anything and make it sound like thought out fact for the stupid to read. Heres just a quick couple of responses to some "facts" stated on that site. I'm sure you guys can come up with more. Or maybe you'll defend them? Site wording is in blue

If this is true, then it would be the third building in history to collapse because of a fire

How about every other building that has collapsed by fire – like every building in Chicago during the great fire…

On July 28th, 1945, a B-25 bomber lost in the fog crashed into the 79th floor of the Empire State Building.

No huge fire as B-25 wasn’t heavily loaded with gas. Also, Empire State building is covered in concrete, not glass. Apples to oranges.

On February 12th, 2005, the Windsor Building in Madrid, a 32 story tower framed in steel reinforced concrete, burned for almost 24 hours, completely eradicating the upper ten stories of the building.

So if the steel is incased in concrete, how is it to get hot enough to weaken to the point of collape?


And to think...the government would have us believe that these massive structures were destroyed by 10,000 gallons of jet fuel.
The second plane hits the South Tower between the 78th and 82nd floors at 9:03 AM, barely hitting the southeast corner, the majority of the jet fuel exploding outside in a massive fireball that grows almost 500 feet wide.


How can you tell if that’s the majority of 10,000 gallons? I don’t think you could burn 10,000 gallons of jetfuel in one quick ball.

The windows in the lobby were blown out, and marble panels were blown off of the walls. This was brushed off as damage from a raging fireball that went barreling down the elevator shafts.

However, the World Trade Center’s core and elevator shafts were hermetically sealed, AKA, air-tight.


Maybe under a non-pressure situation, but not under a pressurized one. A little piece of rubber going to stop a fireball? Not likely…



Chief Palmer had reached the fire on the 78th floor of the South Tower, and devised a plan to put it out.

He describes "two isolated pockets of fire", and requests two lines (hoses) to knock it down

If the 78th floor was a “raging inferno” like the government would have us believe, then Palmer wouldn’t have gotten as far as he did, and certainly wouldn't have been able to put it out with two fire hoses.



^^^^^^Does that look like something that can be put out by two hoses? (was a pic of the tower on fire)

So four different black boxes, made from the most resiliant materials known to man, were destroyed.


Guy states elsewhere in the site that the fires were intense. Hot enough to easily melt steel. They aren’t made of titanium because that’s too brittle. They guy burnt up along with everything else on that floor – including most of the rest of the plane that wasn’t blown away from the building.

I dont really know why I bothered, but meh...
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Old September 18th, 2006, 10:01 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BooGTS

On July 28th, 1945, a B-25 bomber lost in the fog crashed into the 79th floor of the Empire State Building.

No huge fire as B-25 wasn’t heavily loaded with gas. Also, Empire State building is covered in concrete, not glass. Apples to oranges.
also, compare the 2...
B-25
General characteristics

* Crew: six (two pilots, navigator/bombardier, turret gunner/engineer, radio operator/waist gunner, tail gunner
* Length: 52 ft 11 in (16.1 m)
* Wingspan: 67 ft 6 in (20.6 m)
* Height: 17 ft 7 in (4.8 m)
* Wing area: 610 ft² (57 m²)
* Empty weight: 21,120 lb (9,580 kg)
* Loaded weight: 33,510 lb (15,200 kg)
* Max takeoff weight: 41,800 lb (19,000 kg)
* Powerplant: 2× Wright R-2600 "Cyclone" radials, 1,850 hp (1,380 kW) each

Performance

* Maximum speed: 275 mph (239 knots, 442 km/h)
* Cruise speed: 230 mph (200 knots, 370 km/h)

757

Empty weight 128,730 lb (58,390 kg)
Max. takeoff weight 255,000 lb (115,680 kg)
Fuel capacity 11,489 US gal (43,490 l)
Cruising speed 540 mph (868 km/h) 530 knots (982 km/h)
Length 155 ft 3 in (47.32 m) 178 ft 7 in (54.47 m)
Wingspan 124 ft 10 in (38.05 m)
Tail height 44 ft 6 in (13.56 m)


A little different sized planes.
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Old September 18th, 2006, 10:09 PM   #3
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Popular Mechanics debunked most of the conspiracy theorists claims: http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...tml?page=1&c=y
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Old September 18th, 2006, 10:29 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebs
Popular Mechanics debunked most of the conspiracy theorists claims: http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...tml?page=1&c=y
I read that when it came out and agree with it
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Old September 19th, 2006, 06:54 AM   #5
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Loose change has a second video and more expert interviews that debunks PM's attempted debunking.



I'm not a conspiracy theorist per say, as I take evidence from both sides and make my own best judgement as to what happened. My belief:

1. People were aware of the attacks and hatched a plan to make money and hide the evidence in the attacks.

2. Demolitions brought the WTC and #7 down, not fire.

3. I have serious doubts as to whether planes crashed at the pentagon or Shanksville, but also seriously question the opposing views idea as to what happened. Is the purpose of these two crashes vague to draw suspicion from the WTC site?
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Old September 19th, 2006, 08:26 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lothos
Loose change has a second video and more expert interviews that debunks PM's attempted debunking.



I'm not a conspiracy theorist per say, as I take evidence from both sides and make my own best judgement as to what happened. My belief:

1. People were aware of the attacks and hatched a plan to make money and hide the evidence in the attacks.
Who are these "people" and what "evidence do you have to support this?
2. Demolitions brought the WTC and #7 down, not fire.
Again, who would have planted these "demolitions", how would they be able to hide it, and what facts are you basing this theory on?
3. I have serious doubts as to whether planes crashed at the pentagon or Shanksville, but also seriously question the opposing views idea as to what happened. Is the purpose of these two crashes vague to draw suspicion from the WTC site?
Hate to sound like a broken record, but what facts are you using to base this theory on? Since the planes didn't crash where the experts show they did, where are they? How and where do you hide a plane full of people? Even more importantly why do you hide a plane full of people?

If you are going to spout theories, back them up with facts and logic. Going to say the facts presented are wrong? Show me with proof, not speculation.
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Old September 19th, 2006, 08:35 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icemanii
Hate to sound like a broken record, but what facts are you using to base this theory on? Since the planes didn't crash where the experts show they did, where are they? How and where do you hide a plane full of people? Even more importantly why do you hide a plane full of people?

If you are going to spout theories, back them up with facts and logic. Going to say the facts presented are wrong? Show me with proof, not speculation.

You go look at the evidence that is out there and form your own opinion. I'm not here to spout theories or preach to a choir. I lost friends in both the WTC and the Pentagon, so don't think it aint personal for me either. I've seen whats out there and I've formed my decisions based on whats out there. It's not my job to provide you with anything.
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Old September 19th, 2006, 09:02 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lothos
It's not my job to provide you with anything.
You are right, so don't provide me with rumors and 'theories' then either. I asked for the facts to back up you claim. If they are out there, why not provide the link?

Getting tired of the bullshit about 9/11 and the conspiracy wachos. Time to drop it.
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Old September 19th, 2006, 09:22 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icemanii
You are right, so don't provide me with rumors and 'theories' then either. I asked for the facts to back up you claim. If they are out there, why not provide the link?

Getting tired of the bullshit about 9/11 and the conspiracy wachos. Time to drop it.

Wackos? In most cases they are simply people asking for more information. Are you just a person that takes what the government provides as the gospel truth no questions asked? Are you the type of person that honestly believes Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone?

If you're tired of 9/11 conspiracy theories, why did you bother come to this thread to read it? I didn't make my theories posted anywhere else but here.


Want some links?

http://www.geocities.com/killtown/
http://www.loosechange911.com/
http://www.patriotsaints.com/
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=bohemian+grove
http://www.thenewamerican.com/artman...cle_1253.shtml


There's alot of evidence on both sides and many questions unanswered on both sides.

For instance, why has the government not released the video tapes from the locations along the 757 flight path into the Pentagon? What national secret could it possibly contain to merit its hiding?

Why was there no investigation as to why the Gold stored under the WTC was found later in dump trucks under tower 5 in a tunnel?


There are many other questions, but I'm sure you're already too biased/brainwashed into believing the government and everything they say.
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Old September 19th, 2006, 09:27 AM   #10
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I am not to sure on the WTC stuff... but the pentagon I do question....

all i gotta say is where are the wing imprints on the builing, and since there were none, were the wings outside the building... still none.
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Old September 19th, 2006, 09:35 AM   #11
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Here is my major problem with the commonly accepted conspiracy. The total number of people minus hijackers from all 4 planes was just shy of 200. The theory goes that they were transferred somehow to flight 93 which landed in Cleveland and offloaded them to a NASA building adjacent the airport.

My problem is, then what? Gas them? Why not leave them on the planes? Supposedly the planes were less than half full due to various scheduling quirks. The people that actually ended up on the planes that day were placed on them in less than 48 hours. They were all initially to be on other aircraft at other flight times/days and had last minute adjustments to their itinerarys.
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Old September 19th, 2006, 09:57 AM   #12
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Holy shit!!
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Old September 19th, 2006, 10:04 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biohazardbill
I am not to sure on the WTC stuff... but the pentagon I do question....

all i gotta say is where are the wing imprints on the builing, and since there were none, were the wings outside the building... still none.
Read thru the link I posted, it explains that,

"Why wasn't the hole as wide as a 757's 124-ft.-10-in. wingspan? A crashing jet doesn't punch a cartoon-like outline of itself into a reinforced concrete building, says ASCE team member Mete Sozen, a professor of structural engineering at Purdue University. In this case, one wing hit the ground; the other was sheared off by the force of the impact with the Pentagon's load-bearing columns, explains Sozen, who specializes in the behavior of concrete buildings. What was left of the plane flowed into the structure in a state closer to a liquid than a solid mass. "If you expected the entire wing to cut into the building," Sozen tells PM, "it didn't happen."

Here's a visual, a fighter jet hitting a fortified wall much like the Pentagons. You can see at that speed there isn't going to be much wreckage to find. I'd image that jet is built way stronger then any passenger aircraft as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--_RG...elated&search=

Last edited by Ebs; September 19th, 2006 at 10:10 AM.
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Old September 19th, 2006, 10:10 AM   #14
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Ebs, the problem with that "experts" finding was the temperature upon impact could not have been hot enough to achieve the liquid like effect he states happens to the remainder of the fuselage. There's a bunch of other large plane/concrete building impact photos on the web that look nothing like the pentagon's. The quantity of debris both inside and outside is far too low to not draw questions.
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Old September 19th, 2006, 01:05 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icemanii
You are right, so don't provide me with rumors and 'theories' then either. I asked for the facts to back up you claim. If they are out there, why not provide the link?

Getting tired of the bullshit about 9/11 and the conspiracy wachos. Time to drop it.
O God, you got Icemanii going!! Just don't bring up any wars from the late 60's
Icemanii, I don't mean any disrespect about the war but I know it gets you going to I am just giving out the warning


BooGTS graduated from the Conservative CMU if you didn't know :tonka:


And I won't post my views again on this since you already know them.

Last edited by Chiefwoohaw; September 19th, 2006 at 01:25 PM.
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Old September 19th, 2006, 01:25 PM   #16
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sshhhhh...........can you hear it? That'a the sound of the rocks ratling in my head. You guys are so Whacked!!!
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Old September 19th, 2006, 05:03 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by FORD FLARESIDE
sshhhhh...........can you hear it? That'a the sound of the rocks ratling in my head. You guys are so Whacked!!!
Dude, you have rocks ratling in your head and you call us whackos??

Edit: Whacko . . . thanks for the spelling tip SS

Last edited by Chiefwoohaw; September 19th, 2006 at 05:29 PM.
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Old September 19th, 2006, 05:27 PM   #18
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Am I the only one that knows how to spell whacko?
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