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Old March 24th, 2011, 03:03 PM   #21
High Center Hancho
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Glad you're all for it. Welcome to the private sector, and good luck.
I mean it I'm all for it...your house gets broken into, call a plumber...your kids go to school and instead of a teacher they have to listen to a brick layer...your house catches on fire, go to the doctor...
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Old March 24th, 2011, 03:20 PM   #22
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Yes, because the privatized maintenance staff at public schools are all doctors
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Old March 24th, 2011, 03:21 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by High Center Hancho View Post
I mean it I'm all for it...your house gets broken into, call a plumber...your kids go to school and instead of a teacher they have to listen to a brick layer...your house catches on fire, go to the doctor...
Sooo, all these "highly esteemed" public sector employees get butthurt over the idea of having to contribute anything to their own health insurance premiums? My guess is they're all replaceable. Like I said, try the private sector, then maybe you'll really have something to cry about.
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Old March 24th, 2011, 03:28 PM   #24
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Hell cops are only better than Paul Blart because they have a car. We can start buy cutting their pay in half.
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Old March 24th, 2011, 03:58 PM   #25
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If they want the tax payer sponsored handouts of free health care, no problem. Make them go stand in a welfare line once a month to get it.
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Old March 24th, 2011, 04:21 PM   #26
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then give up your services...no more teachers, no more police, no more fireman, no more busing kids to school...ect Everythings costs money, so don't expect the people that do those jobs to keep doing them for half the pay....fire them all, hire people that will work for half the pay and see what kind of services you get...I'm all for it
Who said half the pay? They aren't giving up their health insurance (which I would guesstimate at around a third of what they cost the district/state), they are being asked to pay 20%. I'm sure there are SMART people in those industries (like Me, I drive a School bus) would rather pay that then not have a job. The problem with unionized, publicly funded workers is the union has become far to bloated from "the good times" and can't back down because they would be 'hurting' thier 'membership' by asking them to take any concessions that may help out the district/state.

When a School district is 1.2 Million in the hole and the teachers union is complaining about a pay freeze, not a pay cut, something is wrong. Especially when you have teachers/employees that hide behind the union and don't really do much of thier job. It's not just the teachers unions, but that's a big portion of it.
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Old March 25th, 2011, 01:30 AM   #27
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then give up your services...no more teachers, no more police, no more fireman, no more busing kids to school...ect Everythings costs money, so don't expect the people that do those jobs to keep doing them for half the pay....fire them all, hire people that will work for half the pay and see what kind of services you get...I'm all for it
Yes, I fully expect that the level of services will drop when those providing the services are paid less. But we just can't afford to pay what we have been paying.
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Old March 25th, 2011, 09:54 AM   #28
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I pay 30% on my family portion + deductible. seems fair they should do the same.
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Old March 28th, 2011, 02:33 AM   #29
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WOW...just WOW.

I agree with Hancho and your all morons.

Yeah let's start with cutting cops pay in half, the ones around here already make the big bucks at about 24,000 to 30,000 a year and they risk their life daily.

Oh yeah all our teachers are replaceable. All you geniuses on here have degrees(many of you on here have masters degrees i am sure) in certain subjects pertaining to education so thank god people with the education needed to be a teacher are a dime a dozen. Teachers do not make bank by any means. They make substantially less than 99% of the people with the level of education that they have. So if they have their health care premiums raised then they should receive a higher salary. These are the people who are responsible for teaching our children, they hold a big part of the survival of our country in their hands. They do not deserve the good benefits they get that come with their underpaid position.

It is sad that we have come to this point, most public workers are underpaid and the benefits are what help to make up for it.
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Old March 28th, 2011, 04:37 AM   #30
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I'm all for it...as long as everybody in the private sector has to pay 20%or more as well
Our lawmakers are public servants who's salaries and benefits are paid with taxpayer money. If the taxpayers say "you will have to start covering 20% of your insurance premiums," so be it. Lawmakers have the same options regarding gainful employment all of us in the private sector have, if they do not like it, go find a new job.

Problem with bills like this is the lawmakers will vote in their own best interests. Just like when its time to vote on raises. Hancho, in the private sector do employees have the ability to give themselves raises? Lawmakers do, so lets use your logic and make it state law that private sector employees can vote on their own raises. Im down... I see where you were going with that....
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Old March 28th, 2011, 04:53 AM   #31
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WOW...just WOW.

I agree with Hancho and your all morons.

Yeah let's start with cutting cops pay in half, the ones around here already make the big bucks at about 24,000 to 30,000 a year and they risk their life daily.
There are plenty of places to cut the state budget. Starting with teachers and essential services serves the purpose of getting people fired up. Its called "fear mongering." Any politician that goes right to police, fire, EMS and teachers is useless as a lawmaker.

Can you show me a Lansing police officer that makes 24 to 30k a year? And Im not talking about a rookie.

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Oh yeah all our teachers are replaceable. All you geniuses on here have degrees(many of you on here have masters degrees i am sure) in certain subjects pertaining to education so thank god people with the education needed to be a teacher are a dime a dozen. Teachers do not make bank by any means. They make substantially less than 99% of the people with the level of education that they have. So if they have their health care premiums raised then they should receive a higher salary. These are the people who are responsible for teaching our children, they hold a big part of the survival of our country in their hands. They do not deserve the good benefits they get that come with their underpaid position.
Thanks to Rick, now its easier to get rid of the ones that are not performing. Good teachers are not replaceable. But its easy to generalize and lump the good ones in with the bad ones to make a point. Its a big fail to do it in a rant while you are calling everyone a moron, or sarcastically calling everyone a genius. There are so many points to touch on regarding good and bad teachers, and retaining the good ones it is difficult to do in a soundbite.

If they receive a raise because their health care premiums went up, whats the point? Here's an idea.... If their union would stop wasting their dues.... Go have a looksee at what the higher level union reps are making, how much money the unions give to political interests... etc. I'm all for good teachers, my son and daughter have excellent teachers. And we support their teachers by being good parents and donating to their classrooms so the teachers don't have as much out of pocket expenses as they would otherwise. Imagine if ALL parents were involved.

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It is sad that we have come to this point, most public workers are underpaid and the benefits are what help to make up for it.
Underpaid compared to who/what? Most are on par, or better paid, than their private sector counterpart. Add in pensions and bennies ......

No one wants to cut essential services. No one wants to cut good teachers. Problem is the money is gone. Again.... The money is gone. MI alone has had a large reduction in population.... Simply put, that means less revenue generated via taxes. You don't solve that problem by taxing the remaining population to make up the difference, you cut services. This is all pretty elementary. Issue at hand is the powers that be seem to only be able to find cuts in essential services and education? I find it hard to believe.
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Old March 28th, 2011, 09:17 AM   #32
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I do not feel like responding to everything but your points are valid..somewhat. I also agree with you that i am sure there are better areas for the state to save money at the moment.

Teachers up here are lucky to make 55,000 at least based on the ones i know. I know teachers who have masters degrees in two subjects who are lucky to crest the 60,000. (these prices are for one with tenure and experience)

From what i have seen teachers with masters degrees make what many people out of college make with standard 4 year degrees. Hell the bank tellers up here usually pull in about 35,000 to 40,000 and they are people with generic 4 year degrees. That starting pay for a teacher up here appears to be about 35,000. A lower level engineer that works for the company my fiances dad does makes about 60,000. After some years and some raises they are around the 80,000 to 100,000 range. These are people with 4 year degrees only. For what it is worth a masters degree is not cheap to get so usually these people have to pay a decent size loan back as well.

Before cutting these people's stuff we should cut law makers salary, benefits, and pensions because they get way too much for way to little. But like you said, who is going to vote for something that will cost them personally more money.

People in the private sector tend to pay for a majority of their premiums. That is their choice, maybe they should come and get a public service job where they make less but at least benefits are paid for. Oh and i agree with you that it would be pointless to do anything if people received raises to compensate for the less attractive benefit plan, that was my point. The benefits are the reason people take less in pay.

I also agree with you on the union crap. I am union and it annoys the hell out of me. I work in the private sector but we are unionized and it is a joke. But once again we make less than someone comparable in another area makes based on pay rate. But we do not pay anything for our $1400 a month insurance premium, which is considered in our over all wage i guess you could say. So we make less as far as cash in pocket goes but do not pay an insurance premium, instead of making a good chunk more and paying a premium.

I am not wasting any more of my time with this thread. Bottom line is the benefits are what make these public service jobs somewhat desirable even though there is typically less pay. If they start losing benefits or having to pay for them than the smart ones will take their good education somewhere else eventually. We will be left with nothing but retards for teachers at somepoint.

Cops around here do not make shit. Even if some of them did pull in 50,000 to 60,000 a year don't you think that is low for some one risking their life.

We need to stop giving out state aid to illegal immigrants and people who have not paid anything in to the system instead of just screwing the hardworking people even more(both private and public sector).

Based on your response it is clear that my thoughts were not conveyed as well as they could of been. There is some misunderstanding regarding the stuff i said but it would require an even bigger essay to make it all clear.

Done with my rant on this topic.

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Old March 28th, 2011, 09:43 AM   #33
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Yes, we should all get public jobs...................wait, who the fukc is going to put the money into the system to pay all of us then
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Old March 28th, 2011, 09:48 AM   #34
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I say raise your taxes...I want a hot tub
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Old March 28th, 2011, 09:57 AM   #35
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I do not feel like responding to everything but your points are valid..somewhat. I also agree with you that i am sure there are better areas for the state to save money at the moment.

Teachers up here are lucky to make 55,000 at least based on the ones i know. I know teachers who have masters degrees in two subjects who are lucky to crest the 60,000. (these prices are for one with tenure and experience)

From what i have seen teachers with masters degrees make what many people out of college make with standard 4 year degrees. Hell the bank tellers up here usually pull in about 35,000 to 40,000 and they are people with generic 4 year degrees. That starting pay for a teacher up here appears to be about 35,000. A lower level engineer that works for the company my fiances dad does makes about 60,000. After some years and some raises they are around the 80,000 to 100,000 range. These are people with 4 year degrees only. For what it is worth a masters degree is not cheap to get so usually these people have to pay a decent size loan back as well.

Before cutting these people's stuff we should cut law makers salary, benefits, and pensions because they get way too much for way to little. But like you said, who is going to vote for something that will cost them personally more money.

People in the private sector tend to pay for a majority of their premiums. That is their choice, maybe they should come and get a public service job where they make less but at least benefits are paid for. Oh and i agree with you that it would be pointless to do anything if people received raises to compensate for the less attractive benefit plan, that was my point. The benefits are the reason people take less in pay.

I also agree with you on the union crap. I am union and it annoys the hell out of me. I work in the private sector but we are unionized and it is a joke. But once again we make less than someone comparable in another area makes based on pay rate. But we do not pay anything for our $1400 a month insurance premium, which is considered in our over all wage i guess you could say. So we make less as far as cash in pocket goes but do not pay an insurance premium, instead of making a good chunk more and paying a premium.

I am not wasting any more of my time with this thread. Bottom line is the benefits are what make these public service jobs somewhat desirable even though there is typically less pay. If they start losing benefits or having to pay for them than the smart ones will take their good education somewhere else eventually. We will be left with nothing but retards for teachers at somepoint.

Cops around here do not make shit. Even if some of them did pull in 50,000 to 60,000 a year don't you think that is low for some one risking their life.

We need to stop giving out state aid to illegal immigrants and people who have not paid anything in to the system instead of just screwing the hardworking people even more(both private and public sector).

Based on your response it is clear that my thoughts were not conveyed as well as they could of been. There is some misunderstanding regarding the stuff i said but it would require an even bigger essay to make it all clear.

Done with my rant on this topic.
I know you said you're done, and I'm typing on an iPhone so I'm just going to ask a question.

The teachers with masters degrees making $60 a year, and the lucky cops putting their life on the line for $60 a year...... Did they not research the position they were going after to see where their pay might top out at?

You seem to be throwing alot of pity around for people that might not want it. Nor may be deserved if they got all that education to go into a field where the pay might top out at $60k.
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Old March 28th, 2011, 10:35 AM   #36
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I know you said you're done, and I'm typing on an iPhone so I'm just going to ask a question.

The teachers with masters degrees making $60 a year, and the lucky cops putting their life on the line for $60 a year...... Did they not research the position they were going after to see where their pay might top out at?

You seem to be throwing alot of pity around for people that might not want it. Nor may be deserved if they got all that education to go into a field where the pay might top out at $60k.
how about they knew the pay would top out but at least they could count on a good retirement and benifits..however that stuff was taken long ago yet people still BELIEVE that they have these great benefits and pensions...unless of course you consider my 401 a pension a combination of both
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Old March 28th, 2011, 11:50 AM   #37
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how about they knew the pay would top out but at least they could count on a good retirement and benifits..however that stuff was taken long ago yet people still BELIEVE that they have these great benefits and pensions...unless of course you consider my 401 a pension a combination of both
What's a "good retirement and benefits?"

And what was "taken?" Union agreed to concessions and now it's been "taken?"

And for what it's worth, even after concessions, public sector employees still have a better compensation and benefits package than their private sector counters. So let's keep all of this in crystal clear perspective.
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Old March 28th, 2011, 11:58 AM   #38
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What's a "good retirement and benefits?"

And what was "taken?" Union agreed to concessions and now it's been "taken?"

And for what it's worth, even after concessions, public sector employees still have a better compensation and benefits package than their private sector counters. So let's keep all of this in crystal clear perspective.
it was taken away YEARS ago...had nothing to do with these so called current concessions...public employees should have better compensation and benifit packages than the private secotr for the mear fact they have to put up with the public who really has no idea how these things work
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Old March 28th, 2011, 12:11 PM   #39
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It used to be that you could work for the Big 3 and get the same. Full pension, awesome benefits, early retirement, etc etc. But guess what? Shit ain't like that no more.

Every teacher I know that is coming out of college is having a hard time finding a job, so there's seems to be a surplus. When there's a surplus it drives the cost down, just basic economics.

Wanna draw a parallel to the private sector? When the Big 3 purged out thousands of engineers, the pay for new jobs dropped on average about 20% from talking with a recruiter. From the same guy, I'm hearing that the wages are coming back up a bit now that all 3 are hiring again, but they are being picky; and it's not for every area. If you are specialized and there's a demand for your job, lucky you. If not, then tough luck.
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Old March 28th, 2011, 01:07 PM   #40
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I know you said you're done, and I'm typing on an iPhone so I'm just going to ask a question.

The teachers with masters degrees making $60 a year, and the lucky cops putting their life on the line for $60 a year...... Did they not research the position they were going after to see where their pay might top out at?

You seem to be throwing alot of pity around for people that might not want it. Nor may be deserved if they got all that education to go into a field where the pay might top out at $60k.
I will answer your question and then i am def. done. They did research the job. They knew the pay and the BENEFITS that came with it. Many do the job because they love to do it. The benefits help compensate for the lesser pay they receive compared to people who are equally educated in the private sector.

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