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Old March 20th, 2011, 06:26 PM   #21
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Obama = SUCK ASS


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without being a union they would not have a voice. I'm guessing once the unions are broken up, that the blue collar hourly pay will drop and white collar pay and bonuses will go up.


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As an American, I have the right to vote for my public officials, both locally, state wide and on some national level, and if it goes the way I want, great, if not I have the right to voice my opinion. The basic fact is I have rights. One of those right is being taken away
None of your rights are being taken away. You will still have the right to vote people into office.

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This is true. However, in my opinion, the local municipality that runs to the state asking for $$ because they couldn't manage their budget properly is seceding these rights.

Don't want to have an "emergency financial manager" put in place? Don't fukc up the budget in the first place (aka, unions asking for way to much when the tax base can't support it), or when it does occur, don't go to the state asking for assistance To me, it seems no different from a company selling stock...the majority stake holders (aka, whoever buys the most stock) gets to call the shots...no different here as the state is the majority stake holder once they've stepped in.

Ding ding ding. We have a winner
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Old March 20th, 2011, 06:38 PM   #22
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Teachers in MI are among (if not "the") best-paid teachers in the U.S. $100K+ is a given for a MI teacher who just bides their time for 10-15 years.
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Wow, things have definitely changed! I know my sister just had an interview/whatever it is for her tenure. I hope she gets it because she doesn't make squat right now with her Masters in Special Ed.
it's important to note that the number floated around usually include salary + fringe benefits which can of course easily surpass 40% of the actual salary amount.

my mother is a recent elementary school retiree with her master's and over 30 years of service. Her final avg compensation was in the mid 80k range from a Northern Oakland County district.

the bottom line impact on their balance sheets was probably closer to $140k/yr
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Old March 20th, 2011, 06:44 PM   #23
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Teachers in MI are among (if not "the") best-paid teachers in the U.S. $100K+ is a given for a MI teacher who just bides their time for 10-15 years.

I know, I was just making sure people didn't think I was agianst teachers. My mom and my brother are teachers.

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Really? When my mom retired in 01 or 02 she was making just over 50k a year. She bought a couple years to get her 30yrs. Most of her teaching was K-5 Special Ed with a Masters in Special Education.
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Big changes over the last 10 years.

Don't get me wrong - my mom is a Board of Ed retiree too.

A teacher who hangs around 15 years and gets a masters in education (don't get me started) is guaranteed $100K+ today.

I'm for paying a good teacher $100-$150K easy - as long a we can fire inadequate teachers (i,e. no seniority, no MEA, no tenure).
Are we including thier benefits in all those numbers? Because under 50K salary with health, pension, etc, could be near 100K when it's all said and done. Those benies are expensive.

I completely agree though, you can't fire a bad teacher unless they grope a kid or something like that. There should be more motivation for the teachers to excel. That's what they teach the kids right? Rewards come when you give an effort and succeed (at least that's what I was taught), but then they can do the exact opposite and get paid well for not giving much of an effort.
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Old March 20th, 2011, 06:45 PM   #24
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it's important to note that the number floated around usually include salary + fringe benefits which can of course easily surpass 40% of the actual salary amount.

my mother is a recent elementary school retiree with her master's and over 30 years of service. Her final avg compensation was in the mid 80k range from a Northern Oakland County district.

the bottom line impact on their balance sheets was probably closer to $140k/yr
Didn't see the second page. You beat me to it. .
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Old March 20th, 2011, 06:57 PM   #25
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None of your rights are being taken away. You will still have the right to vote people into office.
So what you're saying is my right to vote is still there? But it doesn't count if I'm in the majority because the governor has different plans? These emergency finacial officers or corporate board members, who voted them in? Where are the checks and balances?
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Old March 20th, 2011, 07:01 PM   #26
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Big changes over the last 10 years.

Don't get me wrong - my mom is a Board of Ed retiree too.

A teacher who hangs around 15 years and gets a masters in education (don't get me started) is guaranteed $100K+ today.

I'm for paying a good teacher $100-$150K easy - as long a we can fire inadequate teachers (i,e. no seniority, no MEA, no tenure).
all BULLSHIT...I know several teachers, my mom was a teacher..teachers with masters and NONE of them make $100k+

normally I agree with many of the things you bring up, but I cab tell you that you are WAY off base here...I don't care what states you try to pull, go talk to a teacher and see if they are anywhere close to 100K...on the flip side what do you think they should make? what is a master+ degreed person making on the private side?
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Old March 20th, 2011, 07:11 PM   #27
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So what you're saying is my right to vote is still there? But it doesn't count if I'm in the majority because the governor has different plans? These emergency finacial officers or corporate board members, who voted them in? Where are the checks and balances?
So what do you suggest we do when a city is spending more than it brings in and has no plan to fix it?
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Old March 20th, 2011, 07:14 PM   #28
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all BULLSHIT...I know several teachers, my mom was a teacher..teachers with masters and NONE of them make $100k+

normally I agree with many of the things you bring up, but I cab tell you that you are WAY off base here...I don't care what states you try to pull, go talk to a teacher and see if they are anywhere close to 100K...on the flip side what do you think they should make? what is a master+ degreed person making on the private side?
Not all bullshit. Pay depends on the district and contract. Teachers with Master's and 10years senority in select districts in Wayne, Oakland, Macomb, Washtenau county (I don't know stats about the more affluent districts on the westside or NMI)
earn $80k+/year salary. A select few with non-administrative roles can top $100k. Add fringe benefits on top of an $80k salary and the cost to the district exceeds $100k/yr.
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Old March 20th, 2011, 07:36 PM   #29
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Since everybody loves a good link. . . http://www.mackinac.org/12307
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Old March 20th, 2011, 08:08 PM   #30
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all BULLSHIT...I know several teachers, my mom was a teacher..teachers with masters and NONE of them make $100k+

normally I agree with many of the things you bring up, but I cab tell you that you are WAY off base here...I don't care what states you try to pull, go talk to a teacher and see if they are anywhere close to 100K...on the flip side what do you think they should make? what is a master+ degreed person making on the private side?
I'll grant there are districts paying under $100K (not much) for a 15-year teacher with a Master's degree. My district is not one.

How much should they make? A good teacher is worth $100K or more easy. A mediocre or bad one is worth zero. Get rid of their union and we can compensate the good ones better and clear out the bad ones.
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Old March 20th, 2011, 09:02 PM   #31
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So what do you suggest we do when a city is spending more than it brings in and has no plan to fix it?
Let the city shutdown! Otherwise it'll be just like the wall street fat cat bailouts. Leave it to the residents of that town/city/village, let them take some ownership and pride in their own community.

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I'll grant there are districts paying under $100K (not much) for a 15-year teacher with a Master's degree. My district is not one.

How much should they make? A good teacher is worth $100K or more easy. A mediocre or bad one is worth zero. Get rid of their union and we can compensate the good ones better and clear out the bad ones.
My sister-in-law is a good teacher with her masters and has been working for about 13 years and makes about 55K and volunteers to help out with after school activities. Volunteering = 0.00 extra $.

How do you tell who are good and who are bad? How does one grade the effort of a teacher?
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Old March 20th, 2011, 09:31 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by High Center Hancho View Post
all BULLSHIT...I know several teachers, my mom was a teacher..teachers with masters and NONE of them make $100k+

normally I agree with many of the things you bring up, but I cab tell you that you are WAY off base here...I don't care what states you try to pull, go talk to a teacher and see if they are anywhere close to 100K...on the flip side what do you think they should make? what is a master+ degreed person making on the private side?
We talking W/ or W/o Benies? That is a huge difference in price. I know my mom was a teacher with the equivalent of ~15 years of service to that specific district (28+ as a teacher)and she made around 65K as a base. When we were kids we were all loaded on her insurance so that had to be a significant amount of money in insurance alone. Not to mention pension. There is more to thier expense per teacher then just the base salary. That's where the unions are killing the districts.

I agree with Duffman. Lets take out the bad teachers and pay the good ones what they deserve. I'm sure if you spent enough time watching the teachers of a specific district you could tell the difference pretty quickly. The students do.
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Old March 21st, 2011, 05:18 AM   #33
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Let the city shutdown! Otherwise it'll be just like the wall street fat cat bailouts. Leave it to the residents of that town/city/village, let them take some ownership and pride in their own community.
You are a moron. You should have your right to have an opinion revoked.

So "Let the city shutdown" is your answer? Lets use Novi as an example. Novi spends more than they make. We shut the city down. Now what? Are the citizens supposed to move out? If not what do we do about basic services?

What Snyder is doing is basiclly shutting the city down but still providing services for the taxpayers of that city until they can get back on their feet.
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Old March 21st, 2011, 07:25 AM   #34
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You are a moron. You should have your right to have an opinion revoked.

So "Let the city shutdown" is your answer? Lets use Novi as an example. Novi spends more than they make. We shut the city down. Now what? Are the citizens supposed to move out? If not what do we do about basic services?

What Snyder is doing is basiclly shutting the city down but still providing services for the taxpayers of that city until they can get back on their feet.
So my answer is somewhat correct, you asked what I would do and said shut the city down. You respond with that is what Synder is basically doing.

Why with the name calling? Do you have some sort of complex?

Why don't you give answer to fix the problem? Or maybe you just like smiley faces and name calling? Yeah that will solve our problems. A lot of people answer with those when they do not know how to express their own thoughts.
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Old March 21st, 2011, 08:49 AM   #35
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Not all bullshit. Pay depends on the district and contract. Teachers with Master's and 10years senority in select districts in Wayne, Oakland, Macomb, Washtenau county (I don't know stats about the more affluent districts on the westside or NMI)
earn $80k+/year salary. A select few with non-administrative roles can top $100k. Add fringe benefits on top of an $80k salary and the cost to the district exceeds $100k/yr.
lets see...wifes a teacher in Oakland county with masters and 14yrs and doesn't come close to $100k...several other friends who are teachers in said districts ranging from 5-15yrs and none of them make close to $100k...whats funny is people cry bullshit when they see those news media articals claiming michigan is going down, they are taxing the poor, but the those people believe that teachers are getting rich and making over $100k a year. If thats the case I wonder what the fukc my wife is doing with all that money? then people start bitching about how you have to add in benifits, ect. Fine do that with a private sector job and you'll see public sector is way behind
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Old March 21st, 2011, 09:51 AM   #36
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Average employee costs somewhere between 1.17 and 1.35 of their actual salary.

Your mileage may vary....

so for a person public or private, making 100k actual cost to employ that person can vary from 117k-135k.

This is an average.
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Old March 21st, 2011, 10:10 AM   #37
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lets see...wifes a teacher in Oakland county with masters and 14yrs and doesn't come close to $100k...several other friends who are teachers in said districts ranging from 5-15yrs and none of them make close to $100k...whats funny is people cry bullshit when they see those news media articals claiming michigan is going down, they are taxing the poor, but the those people believe that teachers are getting rich and making over $100k a year. If thats the case I wonder what the fukc my wife is doing with all that money? then people start bitching about how you have to add in benifits, ect. Fine do that with a private sector job and you'll see public sector is way behind
That's why I said select districts. I, too, would like to know where my all my wife's loot is going- 12yrs + masters in Wayne Co.
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Old March 21st, 2011, 10:35 AM   #38
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Ism!!!
About the 2:30 talks how great these ism's are. Interesting back then they knew of the dangers of liberalism/socialism

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Old March 21st, 2011, 11:14 AM   #39
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Should a teachers pay be indicative of the demand for people that want to to teach or not?
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Old March 21st, 2011, 12:31 PM   #40
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1. The OP needs to look up fascism in the encyclopedia.

2. If you compare public teachers pay to private teachers pay, you will see that the public school teachers are compensated at 2-4 times what private sector teachers get.
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