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Old March 12th, 2011, 09:26 AM   #21
Renegade II
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I like the intro "according to the dept of labor most public employees; local, state and federal belong to unions, in fact 40% do." That means 60% do not, and that's "most" as I learned it in school.

"When unions don't get what they want through collective bargaining they go to legislators to get it." More bullshit rhetoric, prove it. Legislators cannot give firemen, police and teachers a raise and benefits, local units of government do.................. or don't as it has been the last 5 or so years.

"Public employee wages and benefits often average 45% more than their counterparts private sector." Really? How much does the average private sector fireman make? Please ask him when he saves your kid from your burning house. How much does the private sector policeman make? Ask him when he locks up the guy that raped your wife. Also where did he get this 45% number from? His ass that's where.

"Often they receive pension and health benefits that thay make little or no contribution to." Bullshit. It's all public record, but he's betting you'll just take his word on it instead of going to your local units of government and looking for yourself. And go to several, get the real picture. The average worker in mid Michigan is no longer in the MERS (Michigan Employee Retirement System) defined benefit program (read 'check of set amount each month,) they are now in a MERS defined contribution (read 'put in from your own wages, get what you saved when you leave') program. Or silimar 401, 456 & Roth plans.

The "no bottom line in the government" is bullshit too. Why do you think so many teachers, firemen and policemen are getting laid off? Or is it just a figment of our imagination that Flint City, Saginaw City, Saginaw County, Jackson, Bridgeport, and on..... have been cut in half in the last 5 years, even with health, pay and retirement consessions?

"Cities should be able to tell the worker; here are your working conditions, pay; take it or not. Unions now determine working hours, hiring criteria, working days, sick and vacation day and how they can be evaluated.... No longer can an employer offer a job that fit the needs of the public institution"

Most of the public safety unions promoted many of the minimum educational and physical standards that are in effect today. Do you want a fireman that's too weak or stupid to screw a hose onto a tanker or a cop so dumb or weak he doesn't know what to arrest someone for or has to shoot them because he's to weak to physically arrest them? How about hiring a teacher that has a G.E.D.? Lets make them work 15 day stretches at a time and give them no vacations more than 2 days in a row. Tell them they can't call in sick or they are fired. These things happened, that's why unions came to be.

If you make the financial gain of a career unreasonably below the educational, physical and monitary investments a smart person has to make to break into that field, they will go into the private sector. But have no fear, these careers will still fill up with unqualified people wishing to fulfill ulterior motives.

Michigan has Act 312 of 1969. This public act makes it illegal for public safety to strike if they meet a collective bargaining impass. It forces both sides to turn over the contract to an arbitrator for an impartial decision of who gets what. This decision is based on (more or less in given circumstances) the financial solvency of that unit of government, the employee educational requirements, pre employment training requirements, comperable wages, benefits, work hours, retirement, etc... of like communities. In the last 5 years most fire, teachers & police have only lost through 312, but they stayed because what they lost was within reason. Upper government, like upper big business, will keep all the marbles and screw the people that directly serve us the public if they are allowed to do so. The problem is that we can never seem to get upper government that really goes into that public service for more than self gain.

The right and left are posturing for 2012. Don't be a sheep and believe lock, stock & barrel what they say. Educate yourselvs people.

Last edited by Renegade II; March 12th, 2011 at 06:41 PM. Reason: sp error
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