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Old March 4th, 2011, 01:38 PM   #1
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Default Walter E Williams on collective bargaining.

One of my true heroes, Walter Williams...



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Old March 4th, 2011, 01:59 PM   #2
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You do know if they remove public employee unions all teachers, firemen and police will quit their jobs. They're irreplaceable. Your kids will end up stupid, your house will burn down and anarchy will prevail.
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Old March 4th, 2011, 02:14 PM   #3
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I didn't hear anything in there supported by facts...in fact I heard propaganda supported by a beliefs
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Old March 4th, 2011, 02:38 PM   #4
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You do know if they remove public employee unions all teachers, firemen and police will quit their jobs. They're irreplaceable. Your kids will end up stupid, your house will burn down and anarchy will prevail.
I doubt that. Given the job market these days, they would be idiots to give up a job, knowing that they can be replaced immediately by someone who is currently out of work and would love to have to tolerate the "horrible conditions" that job will require them to have.

The system is bankrupt... EVERYONE is going to have to suck it up and deal with it. Otherwise no one in this country is going to have a pot to piss in if it doesn't get fixed. Thank the politicians of the last 60 years for it all.
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Old March 4th, 2011, 02:39 PM   #5
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I doubt that. Given the job market these days, they would be idiots to give up a job, knowing that they can be replaced immediately by someone who is currently out of work and would love to have to tolerate the "horrible conditions" that job will require them to have.

The system is bankrupt... EVERYONE is going to have to suck it up and deal with it. Otherwise no one in this country is going to have a pot to piss in if it doesn't get fixed. Thank the politicians of the last 60 years for it all.
I believe he was being coy.
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Old March 4th, 2011, 09:59 PM   #6
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Make sense to me. One thing that those public sector workers seem to forget is that we (taxpayers) pay your wages. If we aren't making as much as we were, we can't pay you as much either.
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Old March 9th, 2011, 09:36 PM   #7
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Make sense to me. One thing that those public sector workers seem to forget is that we (taxpayers) pay your wages. If we aren't making as much as we were, we can't pay you as much either.
I would like to see that statistic, what the average earner pays towards public sectors paychecks.........hmmmmmm. I am betting slim to none considering that the average income earner do not pay shit in for income taxes really....

we have it all backwards (as a people)

these fuckers are trying to break unions because they are a "tax" on big earners and buisness thats it. its not for the welfare of the people, but it has been turned around, to try and make the average person believe that they are being oppressed by the teacher, firefighter and police unions.


what a crock of shit.
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Old March 10th, 2011, 12:09 AM   #8
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I would like to see that statistic, what the average earner pays towards public sectors paychecks.........hmmmmmm. I am betting slim to none considering that the average income earner do not pay shit in for income taxes really....

we have it all backwards (as a people)

these fuckers are trying to break unions because they are a "tax" on big earners and buisness thats it. its not for the welfare of the people, but it has been turned around, to try and make the average person believe that they are being oppressed by the teacher, firefighter and police unions.


what a crock of shit.
So when the city has to raise taxes to pay for all those bullshit pensions the average Joe taxpayer is not really paying more, it's just an illusion?
Property taxes don't really exist, even for the poor guy living in the little 2 bedroom house.

Turn off MSNBC before you hurt yourself.
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Old March 10th, 2011, 04:53 AM   #9
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I would like to see that statistic, what the average earner pays towards public sectors paychecks.........hmmmmmm. I am betting slim to none considering that the average income earner do not pay shit in for income taxes really....

we have it all backwards (as a people)

these fuckers are trying to break unions because they are a "tax" on big earners and buisness thats it. its not for the welfare of the people, but it has been turned around, to try and make the average person believe that they are being oppressed by the teacher, firefighter and police unions.


what a crock of shit.
I don't have statistics for the average person, but personally, my income is down about 20% from where it was a few years ago, my health care costs are way higher, and the "not shit" I pay in income tax is about 20% of what I earn, and then you have the sales tax and property taxes. As to how much of the public sector paychecks comes from taxes I don't know exactly but I'd guess around 100%, some thats how governments are funded.

I don't think I'm bring oppressed by teacher, firefighter, and police unions, but if they think they should continue to get raises, pensions, and free healthcare while the rest of us are seeing that stuff cut they are out of touch with reality.
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Old March 10th, 2011, 07:06 AM   #10
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I would like to see that statistic, what the average earner pays towards public sectors paychecks.........hmmmmmm. I am betting slim to none considering that the average income earner do not pay shit in for income taxes really....

we have it all backwards (as a people)

these fuckers are trying to break unions because they are a "tax" on big earners and buisness thats it. its not for the welfare of the people, but it has been turned around, to try and make the average person believe that they are being oppressed by the teacher, firefighter and police unions.


what a crock of shit.
In all honesty, what you want to see is out of our tax dollars, property taxes, income taxes, and sales taxes what goes to paying public employees. That is complicated, because public employees are senators, soldiers, city, county employees, etc. There is a lot of people in the public sector.

I don't know where you get the idea that the 'average earner doesn't pay shit in income taxes' comes from...because personally, we pay - a lot. I am not complaining about it, but that is just not reality.
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Old March 10th, 2011, 08:00 AM   #11
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I heard that Carter took away collective barganing rights from federal employees when he was in office and that is what they are doing in Wisconsin, making it even for all government employees. Obama has been in office for two years now, if he wanted to do something about it he could have but he didn't.
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Old March 10th, 2011, 10:24 AM   #12
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In all honesty, what you want to see is out of our tax dollars, property taxes, income taxes, and sales taxes what goes to paying public employees. That is complicated, because public employees are senators, soldiers, city, county employees, etc. There is a lot of people in the public sector.

I don't know where you get the idea that the 'average earner doesn't pay shit in income taxes' comes from...because personally, we pay - a lot. I am not complaining about it, but that is just not reality.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/20...-pay-in-taxes/

income taxes in actuality I (like most of the boad) pay lttle or no income tax, please read the article from new york time's I linked.

we pay all sorts of piddly shit taxes and fees thats a scam.........just no income tax lol. I in no way are defending the rich, just to clarify, is just that the majority seems to have turned its back on each other because of the way things are spun and reported to us.
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Old March 10th, 2011, 10:35 AM   #13
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So when the city has to raise taxes to pay for all those bullshit pensions the average Joe taxpayer is not really paying more, it's just an illusion?
Property taxes don't really exist, even for the poor guy living in the little 2 bedroom house.

Turn off MSNBC before you hurt yourself.
income tax........please read the post before you hurt yourself. I paid 1/2 percent taxes to the city this year. whoa

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Old March 10th, 2011, 10:47 AM   #14
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I don't have statistics for the average person, but personally, my income is down about 20% from where it was a few years ago, my health care costs are way higher, and the "not shit" I pay in income tax is about 20% of what I earn, and then you have the sales tax and property taxes. As to how much of the public sector paychecks comes from taxes I don't know exactly but I'd guess around 100%, some thats how governments are funded.

I don't think I'm bring oppressed by teacher, firefighter, and police unions, but if they think they should continue to get raises, pensions, and free healthcare while the rest of us are seeing that stuff cut they are out of touch with reality.
I said income tax.......if you are a average earner you pay little or nothing towards income tax

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/20...-pay-in-taxes/

sorry thats just the truth.

you are on the other side of the debate saying "well mine got taken away, so there's should too" wahwahwah. I hear it all the time, why are these programs and necessities being taken away from the normal working class people? because of something they did? did they not work hard enough? everybody could and should have these benefits AND MAYBE MORE!!!, we should be trying to get that instead of tearing everyone else down, BUT THAT WOULD BE SOCIALIST!!! I get so pissed when I see this shit.........

most americans are to busy laying on our backs praising rush limbaugh or bent over listening to NPR or on our knees praying to "JESUS" to see whats really going on.
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Old March 10th, 2011, 08:02 PM   #15
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I said income tax.......if you are a average earner you pay little or nothing towards income tax

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/20...-pay-in-taxes/

sorry thats just the truth.

you are on the other side of the debate saying "well mine got taken away, so there's should too" wahwahwah. I hear it all the time, why are these programs and necessities being taken away from the normal working class people? because of something they did? did they not work hard enough? everybody could and should have these benefits AND MAYBE MORE!!!, we should be trying to get that instead of tearing everyone else down, BUT THAT WOULD BE SOCIALIST!!! I get so pissed when I see this shit.........

most americans are to busy laying on our backs praising rush limbaugh or bent over listening to NPR or on our knees praying to "JESUS" to see whats really going on.
In my first post to this thread, which you quoted in your entrance to this thread, I didn't say income tax. I was talking about taxes in general.

I'm well aware of the concept of marginal tax rates. I'm also pretty good at math and can run a calculator. On a recent paycheck I paid about 14% in federal income tax and about 3.8% in state income tax. As I am now working more overtime I image that the total in probably over 20% now. Maybe thats "not shit" to you, but it is "shit" to me.

Sorry, that's just the truth.

I'm on the side of the debate that says that if you are a teacher, and the parents of the kids you are teaching aren't making as much money as they used to, you shouldn't expect to make as much. If you are a police officer and the people you are protecting aren't making as much money as they used to, you shouldn't expect to make as much. If you are a firefighter and value of the homes you are tiring to save from burning down aren't worth as much, you shouldn't expect to make as much. It sucks for all, but thats just how it is.
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Old March 11th, 2011, 04:29 PM   #16
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In my first post to this thread, which you quoted in your entrance to this thread, I didn't say income tax. I was talking about taxes in general.

I'm well aware of the concept of marginal tax rates. I'm also pretty good at math and can run a calculator. On a recent paycheck I paid about 14% in federal income tax and about 3.8% in state income tax. As I am now working more overtime I image that the total in probably over 20% now. Maybe thats "not shit" to you, but it is "shit" to me.

Sorry, that's just the truth.

I'm on the side of the debate that says that if you are a teacher, and the parents of the kids you are teaching aren't making as much money as they used to, you shouldn't expect to make as much. If you are a police officer and the people you are protecting aren't making as much money as they used to, you shouldn't expect to make as much. If you are a firefighter and value of the homes you are tiring to save from burning down aren't worth as much, you shouldn't expect to make as much. It sucks for all, but thats just how it is.

thats the kind of pussy attitude that has got america where it is today. It does not have to "suck for all"

You are taking what I stated out of context and rebutting by quoting me?
like I said show me where your tax dollars go to fund police.....not going to happen.

lets see how you fair when your roads dont get plowed, your garbage dosent get picked up, and people are getting robbed everywhere you look. Maybe not this generation but somewhere, there will be no "middle" class and everybody will be "retiring to trailer homes and waiting for meals on wheels"

I admit the overtime tax rate is appalling, remember working 14 12 hour days straight and being reallly shocked by how much in taxes was taken off my check. If I was a big buisness I could have just wrote it off.
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Old March 11th, 2011, 04:36 PM   #17
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You are taking what I stated out of context and rebutting by quoting me?
like I said show me where your tax dollars go to fund police.....not going to happen.
Who pays government employees then? Where do the funds for their paychecks come from?
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Old March 11th, 2011, 04:55 PM   #18
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Who pays government employees then? Where do the funds for their paychecks come from?

im not say that we do not pay our fair share.......we do, I am sure there is a small percentage of my income that goes to fund police.

what I am saying is that its "Worth it!!!!!!!!!!!"

the people that want to bust these unions are the people that are funding them......wealthy buisness and money owns our government. if you ever ask yourself why the government officials do some thing, think of this

1. because there is something in it for them (direct or indirect)

2. because there is something in it directly to fund an interest group

3. because it strengthens the party (form of interest group)

and some where down on the bottom




to do what is right for the people as a whole
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Old March 12th, 2011, 01:38 AM   #19
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thats the kind of pussy attitude that has got america where it is today. It does not have to "suck for all"

You are taking what I stated out of context and rebutting by quoting me?
like I said show me where your tax dollars go to fund police.....not going to happen.

lets see how you fair when your roads dont get plowed, your garbage dosent get picked up, and people are getting robbed everywhere you look. Maybe not this generation but somewhere, there will be no "middle" class and everybody will be "retiring to trailer homes and waiting for meals on wheels"

I admit the overtime tax rate is appalling, remember working 14 12 hour days straight and being reallly shocked by how much in taxes was taken off my check. If I was a big buisness I could have just wrote it off.
Where do you think the money for government services comes from if not taxes? If the roads don't get plowed because the people can't afford the taxes to make it happen we drive on snow covered roads. If the trash doesn't get picked up because we can't afford to pick it up we find a cheaper way to get rid of our garbage. If we can't afford police protection we find another way to protect ourselves.

Expecting "big business" to become charities that pay for the general publics needs is about the worst kind of "pussy attitude" there is.
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Old March 12th, 2011, 06:55 AM   #20
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income tax........please read the post before you hurt yourself. I paid 1/2 percent taxes to the city this year. whoa
I paid no city income tax yet I coughed up $5k in property tax.

I take it you rent?
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