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Old March 3rd, 2011, 10:59 AM   #1
Chiefwoohaw
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Let the reform in OHIO begin!!

Much more broad then in WI . . . I'm sure the media will pick up on it very quickly.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110303/...io_union_fight

I'm all for the pay for performance instead of just cause you show up on a regular basis.

I don't like the arbitration process where the state is the judge and jury.

Please discuss.
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Old March 3rd, 2011, 11:13 AM   #2
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I feel for anyone who gets their pay cut, but guaranteed pay raises? Come on! WTF

My wife works for The D.oD. and last time they stopped pay raises, everyone recieved a pay band increase. So while they may stop one unreasonable action, they will create another.
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Old March 3rd, 2011, 02:09 PM   #3
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The Ohio bill would ban strikes by public workers and establish penalties for those who do participate in walkouts. State workers in Wisconsin are already prohibited from striking
That is just awesome.
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Old March 3rd, 2011, 02:50 PM   #4
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Much more broad then in WI . . . I'm sure the media will pick up on it very quickly.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110303/...io_union_fight

I'm all for the pay for performance instead of just cause you show up on a regular basis.

I don't like the arbitration process where the state is the judge and jury.

Please discuss.
while this starts with the union people do you think it won't effect the non-union people? I can't wait for you to lose your benefits and pay...I'm sure you get paid too much anyways
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Old March 3rd, 2011, 04:52 PM   #5
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while this starts with the union people do you think it won't effect the non-union people? I can't wait for you to lose your benefits and pay...I'm sure you get paid too much anyways

Stop that crazy talk! Your making sense HCH.
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Old March 3rd, 2011, 05:27 PM   #6
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I think to many people learn the wrong things about history. this sounds like the battles that started the unions in the first place. the trick here is to set up a program that works for everyone. that or leave it alone.

the way I see it if they break the union then the minimum wage is next. you too can make pennies a day like they do over seas.

hey, maybe we can look forward to the child labor laws being repealed too?
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Old March 3rd, 2011, 06:56 PM   #7
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Again. Put out 12 cookies. The CEO takes 11, then tells the masses that the union is trying to take part of their cookie
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Old March 3rd, 2011, 07:00 PM   #8
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Stop that crazy talk! Your making sense HCH.
don't get me wrong I believe the clocks need to be reset, but vilifying the working class over collective bargaining rights is suicidal. These are tough times no doubt and everybody needs to take their share of the pain, but the latest attacks on the working class, to say they are the cause is not the right thing to do. Many battles, both physical and legislative have been fought to protect workers rights and their right to collective bargaining. Through collective bargaining things such as safe working conditions, fair wages, working hours, ect are insured and protected.

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I think to many people learn the wrong things about history. this sounds like the battles that started the unions in the first place. the trick here is to set up a program that works for everyone. that or leave it alone.

the way I see it if they break the union then the minimum wage is next. you too can make pennies a day like they do over seas.

hey, maybe we can look forward to the child labor laws being repealed too?
I have a feeling you will see many more states attempt similar actions and I expect some major civil unrest as a result.
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Old March 4th, 2011, 06:57 AM   #9
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I think the what forced the state governments to do what they are doing is the years of the unions refusing to look at reality and the fact that sometimes there just isn't enough money to pay their demands, especially in the public sector. I mean, they kinda backed the local governments into a corner and what else were they supposed to do? Shut the state down and Road Warrior it?
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Old March 4th, 2011, 07:22 AM   #10
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don't get me wrong I believe the clocks need to be reset, but vilifying the working class over collective bargaining rights is suicidal. These are tough times no doubt and everybody needs to take their share of the pain, but the latest attacks on the working class, to say they are the cause is not the right thing to do. Many battles, both physical and legislative have been fought to protect workers rights and their right to collective bargaining. Through collective bargaining things such as safe working conditions, fair wages, working hours, ect are insured and protected.
I think most people, myself included, lump the union workers in with their leadership. The same bloat and waste that fills our governments seems to be present in the union leadership. That said I still think SOME of their demands are unrealistic in this day and economy.

Personally, even though I have said otherwise, dont want to see unions disappear. The problem is they seem to running companies out of town with their demands. They dont seem to understand the companies can get a better deal somewhere else without them.
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Old March 4th, 2011, 08:06 AM   #11
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Unions have been caving for years and only represent 7 percent of the work force now.
The slide is paralleling the outsourcing, tax cuts, subsidies etc.
Funny how this happens when coincidentally it's normal now for the CEO class to make 400 times the grunt rather than 10-20 times during prosperous times
Divide and conquer.
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Old March 4th, 2011, 08:10 AM   #12
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I think most people, myself included, lump the union workers in with their leadership. The same bloat and waste that fills our governments seems to be present in the union leadership. That said I still think SOME of their demands are unrealistic in this day and economy.

Personally, even though I have said otherwise, dont want to see unions disappear. The problem is they seem to running companies out of town with their demands. They dont seem to understand the companies can get a better deal somewhere else without them.
If you take Wisconsin for example, their public unions agreed to ALL concessions proposed by the Governor except to give up the right of collective bargaining. Iíve said it before, nobody cared that the public sector was far behind in wage earnings compared to the private sector. They made a shit wage and nobody cared as long as they were getting theirs. What kept people in the public sector was they were usually compensated with decent benefit packages and had relative job security. Now fast forward to 20XX, economy takes a shit, people start earning less, and the gap between the public employees wag and the private employees wag shrinks. Mean while the public employees benefit package shrinks. Now that the private employee is earning a wag that directly compares to a public employee they start crying foul. They had turned the public employee into a villain which isnít right. During the good times nobody gave a shit what teachers, cops, fire fighters made, all they knew is they earned more. Now they are forced to live on wages that these folks had been doing for years and suddenly itís the public employees fault the budget messes that many towns, cities, and states are facing. Never mind the fact that it has been proven all over the country and more locally around here that it was YEARS of abuse by top public elected/hired officials that have caused this mess by back door deals and out right theft. In an attempt to cover their asses they point to the unions.

The main problem with the unions as they are just as corrupt as the officials they are trying to fight. Unions have lost their way, which was to protect the worker, and has become an engine to protect those at the top. Itís flawed on both ends of the court, officials and the unionsÖhowever is not the workers fault. The lazy cop, the shitty teachers and the no show fireman are the exception not the norm. However thanks to media attention and public misconception they as a whole are portrayed as all being lazy, all being worthless and a drain on society.

Whos fault is it? Certainly not the workers fighting for fair compensation. Iíd say itís the general public at large for keep voting in the a-holes that started this messÖ
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Old March 4th, 2011, 08:55 AM   #13
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Poor 3rd grade math teacher who can't be fired, always gotten a raise even if they suck at teaching, making $90K in 8 months with full retirement and 0 deductable insurance.....poor teachers...............
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Old March 4th, 2011, 09:09 AM   #14
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Poor 3rd grade math teacher who can't be fired, always gotten a raise even if they suck at teaching, making $90K in 8 months with full retirement and 0 deductable insurance.....poor teachers...............
you have just proven my point...I really hope you get laid off
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Old March 4th, 2011, 09:14 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by High Center Hancho View Post
don't get me wrong I believe the clocks need to be reset, but vilifying the working class over collective bargaining rights is suicidal. These are tough times no doubt and everybody needs to take their share of the pain, but the latest attacks on the working class, to say they are the cause is not the right thing to do. Many battles, both physical and legislative have been fought to protect workers rights and their right to collective bargaining. Through collective bargaining things such as safe working conditions, fair wages, working hours, ect are insured and protected.



I have a feeling you will see many more states attempt similar actions and I expect some major civil unrest as a result.
In reality, unions ARE NOT the working the class, but the privileged elite of the middle class. The regular people that get paid regular wages ARE. And we have already seen pay decreases, benefit losses, etc for quite some time. The unions (unfortunately are lumped together) and are on the higher end of wage, benefits, pensions, etc when compared to similar private sector non union positions.
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Old March 4th, 2011, 09:16 AM   #16
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In reality, unions ARE NOT the working the class, but the privileged elite of the middle class. The regular people that get paid regular wages ARE. And we have already seen pay decreases, benefit losses, etc for quite some time. The unions (unfortunately are lumped together) and are on the higher end of wage, benefits, pensions, etc when compared to similar private sector non union positions.

In reality its the unions that have set the wag standard for the rest of the working world which includes all the non-union employees
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Old March 4th, 2011, 09:19 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by High Center Hancho View Post
If you take Wisconsin for example, their public unions agreed to ALL concessions proposed by the Governor except to give up the right of collective bargaining. Iíve said it before, nobody cared that the public sector was far behind in wage earnings compared to the private sector. They made a shit wage and nobody cared as long as they were getting theirs. What kept people in the public sector was they were usually compensated with decent benefit packages and had relative job security. Now fast forward to 20XX, economy takes a shit, people start earning less, and the gap between the public employees wag and the private employees wag shrinks. Mean while the public employees benefit package shrinks. Now that the private employee is earning a wag that directly compares to a public employee they start crying foul. They had turned the public employee into a villain which isnít right. During the good times nobody gave a shit what teachers, cops, fire fighters made, all they knew is they earned more. Now they are forced to live on wages that these folks had been doing for years and suddenly itís the public employees fault the budget messes that many towns, cities, and states are facing. Never mind the fact that it has been proven all over the country and more locally around here that it was YEARS of abuse by top public elected/hired officials that have caused this mess by back door deals and out right theft. In an attempt to cover their asses they point to the unions.

The main problem with the unions as they are just as corrupt as the officials they are trying to fight. Unions have lost their way, which was to protect the worker, and has become an engine to protect those at the top. Itís flawed on both ends of the court, officials and the unionsÖhowever is not the workers fault. The lazy cop, the shitty teachers and the no show fireman are the exception not the norm. However thanks to media attention and public misconception they as a whole are portrayed as all being lazy, all being worthless and a drain on society.

Whos fault is it? Certainly not the workers fighting for fair compensation. Iíd say itís the general public at large for keep voting in the a-holes that started this messÖ
Are you really implying that the private sector jobs have been paid more for the same job than a union state employee? Come on....I would like to see real data that shows a Union DOT truck drivers wages/benefits/pension compared to a non-union regular joe that drives a dump truck for a gravel company? Or maybe a public school union teacher compared to a private school teacher?
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Old March 4th, 2011, 09:21 AM   #18
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In reality its the unions that have set the wag standard for the rest of the working world which includes all the non-union employees
Keep telling yourself that. There are not union jobs for all positions in the US. So how does the union set the scale for these positions?
And if this was the case, why don't all of us make $74+ dollars an hour (including benefits), with kick ass insurance and a sweet pension?
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Old March 4th, 2011, 09:23 AM   #19
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Are you really implying that the private sector jobs have been paid more for the same job than a union state employee? Come on....I would like to see real data that shows a Union DOT truck drivers wages/benefits/pension compared to a non-union regular joe that drives a dump truck for a gravel company? Or maybe a public school union teacher compared to a private school teacher?
not union
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Old March 4th, 2011, 09:24 AM   #20
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Keep telling yourself that. There are not union jobs for all positions in the US. So how does the union set the scale for these positions?
And if this was the case, why don't all of us make $74+ dollars an hour (including benefits), with kick ass insurance and a sweet pension?
doesn't exist...hasn't in a LONG time....unions positions set wage standards for non-union jobs is as easy as recognizing the fact employers have to pay if they want to attract a talented work force. It is the union employee that created the middle class and without them you would see a bigger gap between the rich and poor. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure this stuff out. You have to look at the bigger overall picture of what is going on.

Last edited by High Center Hancho; March 4th, 2011 at 09:27 AM.
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