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Old February 21st, 2011, 11:17 AM   #1
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Default Movie Industry Moving out of MI

http://www.freep.com/article/2011022...text|FRONTPAGE
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Gov. Rick Snyder's budget proposal on Michigan film incentives is sending immediate aftershocks.

"The Avengers" -- a big-budget Marvel superhero film featuring Iron Man, Captain America, the Hulk and others that was to be partially shot here this summer -- has already decided it won't be filming in the state, several people with connections to the film told the Free Press.

The "Avengers" story echoes the buzz spreading through the local film industry that projects wanting to come here are either holding off on their plans or changing their locations to another state.

Anxiety, uncertainty and anger are building in the metro Detroit film community over Snyder's budget plan, which essentially would eliminate the current film tax incentive and instead call for $25 million in each of the next two years for future movie projects.

“The Avengers” decision is an early – and high-profile – example of incentive supporters’ fears becoming reality.

"They were all set to come here," said Chris Baum of Film Detroit, a division of the Detroit Metro Convention & Visitors Bureau. When producers couldn't get confirmation that they would still qualify for the incentives, they decided to pull out of the state, Baum said.

Attempts on Sunday to reach Marvel Enterprises, the film's production company, were unsuccessful.

Tom Moisides got his call on Saturday morning: His services as a location scout for “The Avengers” would no longer be needed.

Moisides, 39, of Michigan-based Colony Films said he has been working since November as a location scout on the film, a big-buzz superhero adaptation whose cast will include Robert Downey Jr., Samuel L. Jackson and Scarlett Johansson. The job could have been a $100,000 gig if "The Avengers" shoot lasted through October, as he was told to expect.

Moisides, whose credits include the Eminem-Chrysler Super Bowl spot, Hugh Jackman's "Real Steel" and Gerard Butler's "Machine Gun Preacher," said that he had been working to finalize contracts for his locations, he had hired an assistant and another location manager was expected to start this week. Moisides added that other members of the production were negotiating with local hotels and looking at office space, warehouse units and construction shops and mills.

Discuss.

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Old February 21st, 2011, 11:30 AM   #2
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Snyder announces changes midday Thurday and decisions are already made by Monday?

Doubtful. That would call for a level of organization that I doubt exists.

Snyder clearly said existing deals would be unaffected, so it sounds like there was no deal.

And having seen the filmsing that's taken place so far, what have the real, tangible benefits been?

The one filmed by me (boxig movie) resulted in a few extras being hired, some catering and temp security jobs. Everything else (craft people, camera/sound people, etc...) were all from out-of-state.

Does the hotel/restaurant/temp job revenue pay off considering the police costs and loss of tax revenue? Haven't seen any numbers.
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Old February 21st, 2011, 11:34 AM   #3
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Good bye..........and to be honest, it wont be missed.
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Old February 21st, 2011, 11:36 AM   #4
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I dont see how parts of movies being filmed in Michigan where the majority of the pay is going out of state, is going to pull us out of the hole. I understand Grandmole was trying to think "outside the box" by attracting movie productions to the state, but it isnt the right fix.
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Old February 21st, 2011, 12:20 PM   #5
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I think any additional industry is good, but I don't know the actual effects we have garnered here.

Think about the trickle down, gas stations, convenience stores, security, catering, hotels, temp housing, restaraunts, etc.

Sure we haven't all became hollywood midwest as the industry is mostly headquartered in Hollywood but there have been some bene's.

I look at it kinda like GM building a plant in china, or toyota building a plant in the US. The profits still go to HQ and the locals get a few jobs. Nothing earth shattering
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Old February 21st, 2011, 12:23 PM   #6
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"Ernst & Young says the incentives generate nearly $6 in economic activity for every dollar spent on the tax breaks."

http://www.freep.com/article/2011022...-state-coffers
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Old February 21st, 2011, 12:39 PM   #7
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Quote:
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"Ernst & Young says the incentives generate nearly $6 in economic activity for every dollar spent on the tax breaks."

http://www.freep.com/article/2011022...-state-coffers
I had also heard someone on the news claim that for the amount of incentives given to the film industry vs. the people in Michigan that actually benefited was in the red.
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Old February 21st, 2011, 12:44 PM   #8
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they had a film incentive program going in Iowa about two years ago that got completely abused and was shut down last year and part of the reason the governor did not get re-elected. Lots of talk of corruption.

I was a audio and video studio manager before landing a 'real job' here at Complete Off Road. Sure there will be plenty of creative types crying about the incentives leaving, but it is really tough to have any kind of accurate figures on how these things benefit the people of the state. The way the Iowa incentive program worked sure seemed a bit shady.

The MI program was really the standard by which most states were trying to learn from. I think its Jeff Daniels who is from MI, correct? He seemed to be genuinely interested and involved in bringing film work to MI in the things I remember reading/hearing.

Its also very tough to hire completely within the state for these types of productions. You need people that are experienced at a lot of very specialized jobs, and there wasn't enough work in MI even to support that kind of work force.
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Old February 21st, 2011, 12:44 PM   #9
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Quote:
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I had also heard someone on the news claim that for the amount of incentives given to the film industry vs. the people in Michigan that actually benefited was in the red.
Impossible. Governments do everything for the people.
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Old February 21st, 2011, 06:48 PM   #10
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I have a friend who is a cameraman on Detroit 187. He grew up in the area, went to college in Michigan and left right after graduation to move to New Mexico to work. He moved back to Michigan almost immediately after the credits were originally passed and has had no problem finding any work since then. He's been working 60 hour weeks working on multiple projects for about 18 months now and said the production companies were always looking to hire qualified, experienced locally based cameramen and other skilled trades. He and a few of his friends have already said that if the film credits get cut they will probably be out of here when their season wraps (the fact that Detroit 187 might not get picked up for another full season probably isn't helping). He and his friends are all young (mid 20s to early 30s) and educated (usually with visual arts degrees) and earn decent money. These are the exact people that many of the politicians complain we cannot keep after they graduate college and now we are just going to send them back out of the state. It really makes me wonder sometimes.



When the credits were first passed, I thought they were too high for the projected return. But once they were put into effect I saw an immediate impact locally. Our office has a few people that help find sites for movies and they have been very busy since the credits went into place. While the state may be losing money solely based on the films, I do know of a few hotels and other vendors that we deal with who had very good years financially in 2008, 2009, and 2010 whom credit the film industry for their success. And the increased income from these vendors is not generally written into the equation when figuring whether or not the film credits have been a "success" or not.

I guess now that the credits are actually in place, I just wish that Lansing would leave them be for a while so that the film industry would have some consistency and we would be able to better gauge their real effect.
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Old February 21st, 2011, 07:03 PM   #11
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good get rid of them...they suck
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Old February 21st, 2011, 08:55 PM   #12
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I am sad if they go. They amuse me
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Old February 21st, 2011, 09:07 PM   #13
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glad to hear that everyone here who has ever started a business started turning a massive profit from day 1 and it took no time to grow your business or anything.

just cuz you havent noticed money in your pocket yet, doesnt mean it isnt helping a lot of others. it also doesnt mean your business hasnt indirectly seen a return. i along with many others (including other members of this site)spend money all over town that has been earned from the industry.

from day 1 of the movie incentive tens of thousands of small business's saw revenue from the project. hotels, rental companies, catering services, bars, restaurants, hardware stores, clothing stores, you name it. all making money that wouldnt have been made otherwise.

over 3800 Michigan residents were employed at an average of 52,000 last year. AND I HAPPEN TO BE ONE OF THEM! and that was only in one of the first years of the operation. the ONLY reason so many people still had to come from out of state is because people were not yet trained for some of the positions...and with every movie made, this training was taking place with Michigan residents to teach them how to do it.

why not give it a chance to grow?

i love this site and have gotten to know sooo many people on here whom i really respect and admire...but gotta tell ya, for all the bitching i hear here from you Michigan lovers for the lacking of opportunities Michigan receives especially knowing that a ton of you are old time factory workers, UAW, skilled trades, teamsters, and union employees as well as small business owners/operators...i really expected a better attitude about this.

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Old February 21st, 2011, 09:16 PM   #14
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and i know i saw someone ask about the police costs... while most of the security is done by private companies (all michigan based) there is sometimes when actual police presence is needed. from what i have seen it is covered both with what the money given to whichever city they are actively shooting in, or sometimes actually payed out of pocket by the production company.

and the catering and craft services are almost all now Michigan companies...as hopefully soon the camera/sound would be as they were basically split between local and out of town. again, its a matter of getting people here properly familiarized with each specialty.

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Old February 21st, 2011, 09:33 PM   #15
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Great, so the only new good thing michigan has going for it, he kills. That was one of the very very few things grandmole did. At least maybe now they'll stop paying moron mauroon (sp) to shoot at MCS.
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Old February 22nd, 2011, 04:32 AM   #16
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More Porn needs to be done in this state, we have some very good locations for this, the vagina, mouth, anus, boobies, ect. ect........
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Old February 22nd, 2011, 02:24 PM   #17
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http://www.detnews.com/article/20110...t-star-billing

Quote:

Tax breaks for films get star billing
$1 in state incentives buys $6 in economic activity, report says
Melissa Burden / The Detroit News


A study released Monday supports the Michigan film industry's contention that state tax breaks for filmmakers generate much more in economic benefits than their cost.

The new Ernst & Young study, commissioned by the convention and visitors bureaus for Metro Detroit, Grand Rapids, Ann Arbor and Traverse City, found every dollar spent in state tax breaks to filmmakers generates nearly $6 in economic activity.

The tax breaks created 3,860 full-time equivalent jobs for state residents in 2010 and had an estimated impact on sales statewide of $503 million, according to the report.

The study's release came four days after Gov. Rick Snyder said he wants to scale back tax help to filmmakers, capping incentives at $25 million, starting in fiscal 2012. About $163 million in incentives were approved for 2010, according to the Michigan Film Office.

"We've already had multiple films pull out of Michigan, most recently 'The Avengers,'" said Chris Baum, senior vice president for the Detroit Metro Convention & Visitors Bureau and its Film Detroit division.

Film incentive proponents are rallying to save the Michigan industry, planning meetings next week in Troy and at 7:30 p.m. Thursday at Maxsar Studios in Livonia. Speakers at Thursday's town hall meeting include Detroit Free Press columnist Mitch Albom, a screenwriter, and Philippe Martinez, CEO of Maxsar Studios.

Baum declined to provide the cost of the study, but added its findings were given to the Snyder administration before the governor's tax break plan was announced.

Since April 2008, film and TV companies have been able to receive up to 42 percent of production-related expenses, plus a 25 percent Michigan Business Tax credit for infrastructure investment and credits for on-the-job training for film and digital media workers.

Critics such as the Mackinac Center for Public Policy question the Ernst & Young results because other studies such as a 2010 Senate Fiscal Agency report found the film credits have cost the state more than it has generated in revenue.

"We think (Snyder) should go further and eliminate the program wholesale," said Michael LaFaive, the Mackinac Center's director of fiscal policy. "Every dollar used to incentify film production is $1 deprived to entrepreneurs and other people across the state for their own use."

Film credit backers worry Snyder is hurting Michigan's business climate.

"The whole industry was put back on its heels for survival," said Kenneth Droz, former communications manager for the Michigan Film Office who now runs a consulting business and is helping organize Thursday's meeting. "(Snyder) literally has cost 1,000 jobs right off the bat."
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Old February 22nd, 2011, 02:45 PM   #18
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I wish he would keep the incentives. I know a few people who have benefited from the film industry coming here.

I wonder what the 6:1 takes into account. Does it account for police and extra safety personnel?

If the 6:1 ROI is anywhere near accurate, he should not change the program. In fact if he extends them it may lure Hollywood to setup permanent locations in Michigan
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Old February 23rd, 2011, 08:06 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemur View Post
glad to hear that everyone here who has ever started a business started turning a massive profit from day 1 and it took no time to grow your business or anything.

just cuz you havent noticed money in your pocket yet, doesnt mean it isnt helping a lot of others. it also doesnt mean your business hasnt indirectly seen a return. i along with many others (including other members of this site)spend money all over town that has been earned from the industry.

from day 1 of the movie incentive tens of thousands of small business's saw revenue from the project. hotels, rental companies, catering services, bars, restaurants, hardware stores, clothing stores, you name it. all making money that wouldnt have been made otherwise.

over 3800 Michigan residents were employed at an average of 52,000 last year. AND I HAPPEN TO BE ONE OF THEM! and that was only in one of the first years of the operation. the ONLY reason so many people still had to come from out of state is because people were not yet trained for some of the positions...and with every movie made, this training was taking place with Michigan residents to teach them how to do it.

why not give it a chance to grow?

i love this site and have gotten to know sooo many people on here whom i really respect and admire...but gotta tell ya, for all the bitching i hear here from you Michigan lovers for the lacking of opportunities Michigan receives especially knowing that a ton of you are old time factory workers, UAW, skilled trades, teamsters, and union employees as well as small business owners/operators...i really expected a better attitude about this.
Likely no one here ever started a business on the pretense they would receive millions in tax payer dollars. Take Boars head in Michigan compared with Koegels. Kogels has been here for 100 plus years, no tax incentive. Boars head was here until the day after the tax incentive ran out, then they left.

IT IS NOT SELF SUSTAINING. get the differance.
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Old February 23rd, 2011, 08:14 PM   #20
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movie stars are buttholes...get them out
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