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Old February 20th, 2011, 10:26 AM   #41
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My wife just got a job as a teacher. She is grateful to have a job, her first as a teacher. Best paying job she has ever had. Her coworkers are already starting to complain that they might have to take a small pay cut or pay for some of there insurance. My wife told a few of them that she would gladly pay for more insurance as long as she got to keep her job and they did not understand why. Its simple really. Having a job to go to everyday is better than not having one at all. Being she is the new hire she will be the first to get cut if or when it comes to that. Sucks but its true. The teachers with only a few years left or that have tenor will not take concessions in their wages, even if it means others with young familys will loose their jobs. Seems like a bunch of greedy bullshit to me.
X2. I work for transportation in our district and only the Teacher's Bargaining unit is not willing to give a whole lot, or any. That then get's passed onto the other two or three units. One being transportation. I understand that what teachers do is very important but there is a point where we all need to make significant sacrifices for the betterment of our state and even the local districts.

I get how unions can be good but, in this case, they hinder the ability to really help. They are screwing over everybody else. I would wager that a good amount of teachers would be willing to give a bit of a Sacrifice but don't because the union tells them not to speak up about it. My mom was also a teacher and I've heard her say many times that the union says she should vote this way or not say anything about this or that. It's ridiculous.
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Old February 20th, 2011, 12:10 PM   #42
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I get how unions can be good but, in this case, they hinder the ability to really help. They are screwing over everybody else. I would wager that a good amount of teachers would be willing to give a bit of a Sacrifice but don't because the union tells them not to speak up about it. My mom was also a teacher and I've heard her say many times that the union says she should vote this way or not say anything about this or that. It's ridiculous.
I know how ridiculous it sounds. But I view this very differently. For instance, at the University of Michigan the President, the VP's, the CFO, and all of the Regents, and Deans have received substantial raises! I mean, some of them got a raise for one year that is bigger than my annual salary! Why would anybody be satisfied with taking cuts when everybody above them is making more and more, easily enough to compensate for any losses in cost of living or increased benefit costs.

And tuition certainly isn't going down.

It's like I said before, it has to start with the top. The Feds and this administration want to spend our asses off, and make us suffer.
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Old February 20th, 2011, 12:38 PM   #43
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I know how ridiculous it sounds. But I view this very differently. For instance, at the University of Michigan the President, the VP's, the CFO, and all of the Regents, and Deans have received substantial raises! I mean, some of them got a raise for one year that is bigger than my annual salary! Why would anybody be satisfied with taking cuts when everybody above them is making more and more, easily enough to compensate for any losses in cost of living or increased benefit costs.

And tuition certainly isn't going down.

It's like I said before, it has to start with the top. The Feds and this administration want to spend our asses off, and make us suffer.
Two wrongs NEVER make it right.
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Old February 20th, 2011, 01:41 PM   #44
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Shawn,
"some" union workers are worth more money based on their effort, attitude and skill. I suspect you are one of those people. The problem is that you end up having to fight for the slackers that have the same title as you and therefore think they should get the same money.

I left the union years ago and never looked back. I had the attitude that I was willing to take risks and therefore make my own deal. Most union workers are afraid to take this risk. With risk comes reward.
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Old February 20th, 2011, 02:17 PM   #45
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Shawn,
"some" union workers are worth more money based on their effort, attitude and skill. I suspect you are one of those people. The problem is that you end up having to fight for the slackers that have the same title as you and therefore think they should get the same money.

I left the union years ago and never looked back. I had the attitude that I was willing to take risks and therefore make my own deal. Most union workers are afraid to take this risk. With risk comes reward.
x2 i left 2 years ago because i wanted nothing to do with what they called right. Im much happier now, I make less an hour but have more in my pocket.
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Old February 20th, 2011, 06:45 PM   #46
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Learn some reading comprehension. I never said it wasn't comparable to what he was getting in the private sector. I said that he was getting a $50k raise over what his counterpart got in the Granholm administration which the article also clearly states.


Here's another:
http://detnews.com/article/20110114/...staff-salaries

The state's new budget director is making $105k more a year than his counterpart under Granholm.
My bad, I didn't take the time to read the article.

How does Snyders total salary budget compare to Granholm? If he save's 10 million in total salaries and gives one guy a 50K raise...well you get it.
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Old February 20th, 2011, 07:02 PM   #47
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My bad, I didn't take the time to read the article.

How does Snyders total salary budget compare to Granholm? If he save's 10 million in total salaries and gives one guy a 50K raise...well you get it.
It's in the article. Read.
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Old February 20th, 2011, 07:32 PM   #48
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It's in the article. Read.
I have to say I don't see a total budget comparison. I looks like Nixon will get 250,000 to do two jobs under Granholm that totaled 280,00 and Corrigan is taking 10,000 less than Granholm paid. I don't see a total.
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Old February 21st, 2011, 09:42 PM   #49
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I know how ridiculous it sounds. But I view this very differently. For instance, at the University of Michigan the President, the VP's, the CFO, and all of the Regents, and Deans have received substantial raises! I mean, some of them got a raise for one year that is bigger than my annual salary! Why would anybody be satisfied with taking cuts when everybody above them is making more and more, easily enough to compensate for any losses in cost of living or increased benefit costs.

And tuition certainly isn't going down.

It's like I said before, it has to start with the top. The Feds and this administration want to spend our asses off, and make us suffer.
Would it be fair for me to say it should come from everybody? The MSU Pres. Makes $500,000 a year. That's what I've heard, I get that MSU is a big school but to have that big of a Salary? Really? I guess I'm agreeing with you but at the same time saying that those people won't take cuts either. When it comes down to it the lowest on the food chain gets screwed. It should be the other way around but it isn't. I think Snyder is doing what should be done. Weather he has a massive fortune or not.
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Old February 22nd, 2011, 06:23 AM   #50
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Would it be fair for me to say it should come from everybody? The MSU Pres. Makes $500,000 a year. That's what I've heard, I get that MSU is a big school but to have that big of a Salary? Really? I guess I'm agreeing with you but at the same time saying that those people won't take cuts either. When it comes down to it the lowest on the food chain gets screwed. It should be the other way around but it isn't. I think Snyder is doing what should be done. Weather he has a massive fortune or not.
This is the crap that pisses me off. So, a guy who has no risk, no responsibility and no stress wants to make $50 - $100K. Somebody like you.
Now a guy takes on some responsibilities. He has employees, let's say 20. He has reports to write. He has customers to work with. He has customer complaints. He has huge budget decisions that he has to justify. If things fail, he takes the heat. What's all that worth? Certainly more than you want to make.
Now this same guy gets more employees, more risk, bigger jobs that he is responsible for, bigger budgets, etc. He no longer has his close knit group of employees, but instead is dealing with a larger range of skills and personalities that are much harder to control. What's that worth?

You guys who work FOR SOMEBODY have no idea what it's like to have the stress levels of an upper manager. I have issues that stress me out like you can't imagine. A one hour meeting with some customers will literally wipe me out for the rest of the day. I've had days where I've had to come home and go straight to bed at 7:30, no dinner, just drop my clothes and crawl in bed. With that, I have about 75 employees and I don't make anywhere near those dollars.

I can't imagine what it would be like to have that many employees, large budget, cost constraints and is ALWAYS in the public spotlight. If you offered me that job for $250K I probably would tell you to pound sand.
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Old February 22nd, 2011, 06:41 AM   #51
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Shawn you have a valid point.
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Originally Posted by http://www.smartplanet.com/technology/blog/science-scope/the-secret-to-paying-ceos-more-fairly/2974/
Generally, a CEO of a company should be making 8 to 16 times the amount of the lowest employee.

That would be fair.

What isn’t fair is how some CEOs make 344 times the salary of their lowest employee. Perviously, Purdue researchers found that 35 top CEOs were getting paid 129 times the amount of what would be considered fair. However in the 1970s, the pay was more like 40-to-1.
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What’s more, the inflated pay for executives is an American phenomenon. In Japan, the executives get paid 11-to-1 and in Britain, they get paid 22-to-1.
Wonder why health insurance costs so much?
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Originally Posted by http://www.healthreformwatch.com/2009/05/20/health-insurance-ceos-total-compensation-in-2008/
Ins. Co. & CEO With 2007 Total CEO Compensation

Aetna Ronald A. Williams: $23,045,834
Cigna H. Edward Hanway: $25,839,777
Coventry Dale B. Wolf : $14,869,823
Health Net Jay M. Gellert: $3,686,230
Humana Michael McCallister: $10,312,557
U.Health Grp Stephen J. Hemsley: $13,164,529
WellPoint Angela Braly (2007): $9,094,271
L. Glasscock (2006): $23,886,169

Ins. Co. & CEO With 2008 Total CEO Compensation

Aetna, Ronald A. Williams: $24,300,112
Cigna, H. Edward Hanway: $12,236,740
Coventry, Dale Wolf: $9,047,469
Health Net, Jay Gellert: $4,425,355
Humana, Michael McCallister: $4,764,309
U. Health Group, Stephen J. Hemsley: $3,241,042
Wellpoint, Angela Braly: $9,844,212
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Old February 22nd, 2011, 06:43 AM   #52
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And for some frame of reference for those who have employer paid health care and who really have no idea of the cost, to cover my family of five it costs $16K per year with a $6K deductible. That is $22K out of my pocket before the health insurance pays a dime.

Again for reference for those fortunate to have decent employer funded retirement plans, after 15 years of employment with one company and 5 more years of investment “growth” my company funded profit sharing retirement fund is now worth a whopping $8,000.

I can feel sympathy for those having to adjust to the new reality, but the bottom line is the nation as a whole has been living beyond its means and now its time to pay the piper. We have only ourselves to blame for the mess we’re in. We voted idiots into office. We reward the ones that lie and tell us what we want to hear by re-electing them. We punish the ones that want to face reality and that try to plan for the future by voting them out of office. As we are doing now, we resist any attempt to correct the situation and prefer they tell us it will all be ok, as they dig the hole deeper and deeper. It is time to stop the insanity.

Don’t like Snyder’s plan? Come up with something better, something that is practical and feasible.
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Old February 22nd, 2011, 09:34 AM   #53
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This is the crap that pisses me off. So, a guy who has no risk, no responsibility and no stress wants to make $50 - $100K. Somebody like you.
Now a guy takes on some responsibilities. He has employees, let's say 20. He has reports to write. He has customers to work with. He has customer complaints. He has huge budget decisions that he has to justify. If things fail, he takes the heat. What's all that worth? Certainly more than you want to make.
Now this same guy gets more employees, more risk, bigger jobs that he is responsible for, bigger budgets, etc. He no longer has his close knit group of employees, but instead is dealing with a larger range of skills and personalities that are much harder to control. What's that worth?

You guys who work FOR SOMEBODY have no idea what it's like to have the stress levels of an upper manager. I have issues that stress me out like you can't imagine. A one hour meeting with some customers will literally wipe me out for the rest of the day. I've had days where I've had to come home and go straight to bed at 7:30, no dinner, just drop my clothes and crawl in bed. With that, I have about 75 employees and I don't make anywhere near those dollars.

I can't imagine what it would be like to have that many employees, large budget, cost constraints and is ALWAYS in the public spotlight. If you offered me that job for $250K I probably would tell you to pound sand.
EXACTLY, it's one thing to worry about your decisions when it's your family. It's a whole different ballgame when you're making decisions effecting 10's,100's, 1000's of families. Pay follows stress. Some grade school teachers are making $85k+ in 9 months.........who dies if they make the wrong decisions? There are people out there making life and death decisions not making that much. The whole payscale is fucked if you ask me.
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Old February 22nd, 2011, 09:50 AM   #54
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This is the crap that pisses me off. So, a guy who has no risk, no responsibility and no stress wants to make $50 - $100K. Somebody like you.
Now a guy takes on some responsibilities. He has employees, let's say 20. He has reports to write. He has customers to work with. He has customer complaints. He has huge budget decisions that he has to justify. If things fail, he takes the heat. What's all that worth? Certainly more than you want to make.
Now this same guy gets more employees, more risk, bigger jobs that he is responsible for, bigger budgets, etc. He no longer has his close knit group of employees, but instead is dealing with a larger range of skills and personalities that are much harder to control. What's that worth?

You guys who work FOR SOMEBODY have no idea what it's like to have the stress levels of an upper manager. I have issues that stress me out like you can't imagine. A one hour meeting with some customers will literally wipe me out for the rest of the day. I've had days where I've had to come home and go straight to bed at 7:30, no dinner, just drop my clothes and crawl in bed. With that, I have about 75 employees and I don't make anywhere near those dollars.

I can't imagine what it would be like to have that many employees, large budget, cost constraints and is ALWAYS in the public spotlight. If you offered me that job for $250K I probably would tell you to pound sand.
I understand that it's a stressful job, I just don't think that much money is necessary, For anybody. The President of the USA doesn't even make that much yet has much more stress to his job then SHE (the president of MSU) does. I get that it's stressful and that they should compensated for it but, at the same time, they apply for the job, they know what it takes. Same goes for the coaches that get paid millions at a State school.

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EXACTLY, it's one thing to worry about your decisions when it's your family. It's a whole different ballgame when you're making decisions effecting 10's,100's, 1000's of families. Pay follows stress. Some grade school teachers are making $85k+ in 9 months.........who dies if they make the wrong decisions? There are people out there making life and death decisions not making that much. The whole payscale is fucked if you ask me.
Teachers teach out future generations how to be leaders. That's pretty huge. Not worth 85K, but still huge. Those teachers will end up teaching the future president, the future secretary of defense, ETC....

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Old February 22nd, 2011, 09:53 AM   #55
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I understand that it's a stressful job, I just don't think that much money is necessary, For anybody. The President of the USA doesn't even make that much yet has much more stress to his job then SHE (the president of MSU) does. I get that it's stressful and that they should compensated for it but, at the same time, they apply for the job, they know what it takes. Same goes for the coaches that get paid millions at a State school.
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Old February 22nd, 2011, 10:01 AM   #56
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Socialist.
Care to Elaborate? It's ok, State funded School = wasting your tax dollars? That's ok with you?
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Old February 22nd, 2011, 10:06 AM   #57
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Care to Elaborate? It's ok, State funded School = wasting your tax dollars? That's ok with you?
He's talking about your opinion of how much is too much. Who are you to decide how much is enough for someone to get paid.

Free market.
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Old February 22nd, 2011, 10:12 AM   #58
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He's talking about your opinion of how much is too much. Who are you to decide how much is enough for someone to get paid.

Free market.
I'd say that if someone is getting paid more then the President of the US to do a very similar, probably less stressful, job then they are getting paid to much. I never said they had to make the same as I do. I also don't think that person should make that much if the place they are working for is partially funded by the Government. JMO I guess.
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Old February 22nd, 2011, 10:17 AM   #59
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I'd say that if someone is getting paid more then the President of the US to do a very similar, probably less stressful, job then they are getting paid to much. I never said they had to make the same as I do. I also don't think that person should make that much if the place they are working for is partially funded by the Government. JMO I guess.
Thats why no government employees should have collective bargaining rights. They work for tax payers, not corporations.

As for what the President gets paid, has nothing to do with anything. Do you have any idea what these men make after they leave office? MILLIONS.
100k+ 10 minutes speeches.

To be President is an honor. Congress, Senate, an honor. Should be getting paid shit, as it was from the start.
These were to be part time jobs, not careers.

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Old February 22nd, 2011, 10:28 AM   #60
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Why doesnt someone post the top paid union officials. If you really want to throw up your lunch.
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