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Old February 15th, 2011, 02:49 PM   #41
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I didn't realize that in order to be on death row that the victim had to be innocent...

If I trusted my Government instead of fearing it then perhaps my thoughts might be more similarly aligned with yours.

As for the problem with revenge - the wild west syndrome is not civilized behavior. If capital punishment is performed soley for revenge - then it's just a short step from allowing as some of you hilljacks would prefer, the victim's family doling out punishment and/or lynch-mobs. Which in turn is only a small step from conviction without a true trial by your peers - or can easily be seen in the mid-east in radical islamic countries where capital punishment includes barbarism such as stoning...

Is our criminal justice system perfect? Hell no. However, would you rather live in the wild west and/or the mid-east?

Regardless, smarter people than all of GL combined with designations and initials after their names have argued the deterrent effect of capital punishment forever.

Gang bangers don't fear capital punishment of any kind - nor do they fear death by their enemies on the streets, or in prison.

People that have committed crimes of passion, by definition are not thinking of consequences - yet can still be convicted of premeditated murder which theoretically is a capital offense in most States.

People so fucked up as to be a serial killer like Dahmer are also obviously not deterred by getting caught/punished.
I love all 3 of those examples. Those types of people should be stoned. However the passion one should be stoned with smaller stones. Simply for being stupid and committing a murder out of jealousy.

Death sentence however you look at it is revenge by peers. Plain and simple.
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Old February 15th, 2011, 03:13 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by RyeBread View Post
I didn't realize that in order to be on death row that the victim had to be innocent...

If I trusted my Government instead of fearing it then perhaps my thoughts might be more similarly aligned with yours.

As for the problem with revenge - the wild west syndrome is not civilized behavior. If capital punishment is performed soley for revenge - then it's just a short step from allowing as some of you hilljacks would prefer, the victim's family doling out punishment and/or lynch-mobs. Which in turn is only a small step from conviction without a true trial by your peers - or can easily be seen in the mid-east in radical islamic countries where capital punishment includes barbarism such as stoning...

Is our criminal justice system perfect? Hell no. However, would you rather live in the wild west and/or the mid-east?

Regardless, smarter people than all of GL combined with designations and initials after their names have argued the deterrent effect of capital punishment forever.

Gang bangers don't fear capital punishment of any kind - nor do they fear death by their enemies on the streets, or in prison.

People that have committed crimes of passion, by definition are not thinking of consequences - yet can still be convicted of premeditated murder which theoretically is a capital offense in most States.

People so fucked up as to be a serial killer like Dahmer are also obviously not deterred by getting caught/punished.
I don't see capital punishment as much of a deterrent as compared to ridding the world of human trash so that trash cannot harm another innocent human being again. I get so sick of violent assholes that are let back on the street and do the same shit over again.

The government fails in its own responsibility of keeping it's citizens safe. No wonder CPLs are so popular. I'd rather see a father or mother walk in on the child being raped or attacked and have the perpetrator shot and killed on the spot. I'd rather have a rape victim or mugging victim defend themselves with a gun and kill their attacker right on the spot. In the end it saves the taxpayers money and is the absolute autobahn of punishment these criminals deserve.
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Old February 15th, 2011, 04:38 PM   #43
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What is kind killing? Bullet to the head?
What they have in place right now is sufficient. That is, after all, why this thread was started. Saying that we shouldn't have to worry about an inmate getting expired death juice because it could cause them excruciating pain.


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Justice or revenge, it does not matter to me what you call it. It's what they deserve for what they did. Whats wrong with revenge?
Revenge acts on the idea that the world is fair. That if someone does something to you you have a right to do it right back to them. Children act on this premise. Most of us know the world is unfair and that there is a thing called morality and, as bad as it may be, the judicial system. While I'm not saying they don't deserve death, I'm saying that, as a civilized country, they should be taken out in a way that is less brutal then what they may have done.



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I didn't say people cant change or be remorseful. Does that make their victim less dead or less raped or less tortured? Nope. Once they do these horrible acts to an INNOCENT person they lose their chance at changing or being remorseful.
Once agian, murdering,raping,etc does not take away your ability to be remorseful or your ability to change. Think of it this way, they rot in jail for X amount of time. While in jail they realize what they did was wrong and decide to change. At the end of thier sentence they get the chair anyways, WIN WIN! .

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If more people with my views ran this country we wouldnt be in the shape we are in. Good people have to live in fear of these animals because people that think like you are too soft on criminals. I bet you think inmates need more amenities so they can have a better quality of life.
No I don't think Inmates need any thing more then they have. They are there because they committed a crime. I just don't think that a civilized nation should condone torturing one of their citizens to death. I'm not soft on criminals. I understand that it's morally wrong to kill them in they way you are suggesting.


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you are right, I do think I am better than the person who deserves the death sentence, I didn't kill, rape, molest, etc. anyone.

Yeah I am different, I didn't do the crime, I knew the consequences and didn't choose to do something so dispicable.

I didn't do anything to anyone, they did. They should be punished for that. duh
I never said they didn't need punishment. You also missed the point. I was saying that by thinking "They should be *insert brutal, cruel punishment here* instead of just killed" You're not really much better then them. The only difference being that you want your government to do it instead of you doing it.


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Originally Posted by RyeBread View Post
I didn't realize that in order to be on death row that the victim had to be innocent...

If I trusted my Government instead of fearing it then perhaps my thoughts might be more similarly aligned with yours.

As for the problem with revenge - the wild west syndrome is not civilized behavior. If capital punishment is performed soley for revenge - then it's just a short step from allowing as some of you hilljacks would prefer, the victim's family doling out punishment and/or lynch-mobs. Which in turn is only a small step from conviction without a true trial by your peers - or can easily be seen in the mid-east in radical islamic countries where capital punishment includes barbarism such as stoning...

Is our criminal justice system perfect? Hell no. However, would you rather live in the wild west and/or the mid-east?

Regardless, smarter people than all of GL combined with designations and initials after their names have argued the deterrent effect of capital punishment forever.

• Gang bangers don't fear capital punishment of any kind - nor do they fear death by their enemies on the streets, or in prison.

• People that have committed crimes of passion, by definition are not thinking of consequences - yet can still be convicted of premeditated murder which theoretically is a capital offense in most States.

• People so fucked up as to be a serial killer like Dahmer are also obviously not deterred by getting caught/punished.
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Old February 15th, 2011, 08:29 PM   #44
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I didn't realize that in order to be on death row that the victim had to be innocent...

Well since we know the person on death row is guilty we can assume the victim is innocent.

If I trusted my Government instead of fearing it then perhaps my thoughts might be more similarly aligned with yours.

Trust is earned

As for the problem with revenge - the wild west syndrome is not civilized behavior. If capital punishment is performed soley for revenge - then it's just a short step from allowing as some of you hilljacks would prefer, the victim's family doling out punishment and/or lynch-mobs. Which in turn is only a small step from conviction without a true trial by your peers - or can easily be seen in the mid-east in radical islamic countries where capital punishment includes barbarism such as stoning...

These people have been convicted. If killing them in the name of justice makes it better than call it justice. As long as they suffer.

Is our criminal justice system perfect? Hell no. However, would you rather live in the wild west and/or the mid-east?

Regardless, smarter people than all of GL combined with designations and initials after their names have argued the deterrent effect of capital punishment forever.

Gang bangers don't fear capital punishment of any kind - nor do they fear death by their enemies on the streets, or in prison.

People that have committed crimes of passion, by definition are not thinking of consequences - yet can still be convicted of premeditated murder which theoretically is a capital offense in most States.

People so fucked up as to be a serial killer like Dahmer are also obviously not deterred by getting caught/punished.
You try to help them change with hugs and time outs, I will stick to my methods.
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Old February 15th, 2011, 08:43 PM   #45
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I don't see capital punishment as much of a deterrent as compared to ridding the world of human trash so that trash cannot harm another innocent human being again. I get so sick of violent assholes that are let back on the street and do the same shit over again.

You could not be more right.

The government fails in its own responsibility of keeping it's citizens safe. No wonder CPLs are so popular. I'd rather see a father or mother walk in on the child being raped or attacked and have the perpetrator shot and killed on the spot. I'd rather have a rape victim or mugging victim defend themselves with a gun and kill their attacker right on the spot. In the end it saves the taxpayers money and is the absolute autobahn of punishment these criminals deserve.
Again I agree, but apparently we are wrong in thinking these victims are innocent and/or have the rights to not be violated. I am not sure why victims shouldnt be victims but maybe someone else can explain it.

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What they have in place right now is sufficient. That is, after all, why this thread was started. Saying that we shouldn't have to worry about an inmate getting expired death juice because it could cause them excruciating pain.

Are you kidding? How often do we hear about repeat offenders? You think that is sufficient?


Revenge acts on the idea that the world is fair. That if someone does something to you you have a right to do it right back to them. Children act on this premise. Most of us know the world is unfair and that there is a thing called morality and, as bad as it may be, the judicial system. While I'm not saying they don't deserve death, I'm saying that, as a civilized country, they should be taken out in a way that is less brutal then what they may have done.

You most certainly do.

You couldnt be more wrong.





Once agian, murdering,raping,etc does not take away your ability to be remorseful or your ability to change. Think of it this way, they rot in jail for X amount of time. While in jail they realize what they did was wrong and decide to change. At the end of thier sentence they get the chair anyways, WIN WIN! .

I dont care about a murders ability to change. The dead person does NOT get the same chance at change.

No I don't think Inmates need any thing more then they have. They are there because they committed a crime. I just don't think that a civilized nation should condone torturing one of their citizens to death. I'm not soft on criminals. I understand that it's morally wrong to kill them in they way you are suggesting.

It is morally wrong? Says who? The way I see it is that they tossed out the morality book when they vilolated another human being. Frre game now.


I never said they didn't need punishment. You also missed the point. I was saying that by thinking "They should be *insert brutal, cruel punishment here* instead of just killed" You're not really much better then them. The only difference being that you want your government to do it instead of you doing it.
Who said I wanted the govt to do it? They cant do anything right. I am more than capable of getting the job done.
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Old February 15th, 2011, 09:08 PM   #46
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This needs to happen more often:

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Old February 15th, 2011, 09:10 PM   #47
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Great job SWAT.
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Old February 15th, 2011, 09:22 PM   #48
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[thread derail]
This happened 5 miles from my front door. The hostage taker was a 19yo high school student, and unarmed. They are now saying on the news that he had "something" concealed in his hat, but they aren't saying what.

[/thread derail]
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Old February 15th, 2011, 10:33 PM   #49
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Again I agree, but apparently we are wrong in thinking these victims are innocent and/or have the rights to not be violated. I am not sure why victims shouldnt be victims but maybe someone else can explain it.



Who said I wanted the govt to do it? They cant do anything right. I am more than capable of getting the job done.
So you probably think if you go kill all the bad guys you shouldn't be sentenced to death right? Because you're doing exactly what they did. Kill people with out a trial. But somehow it's ok for you to because "you're doing it in the name of justice/revenge". I'm sure the murders you would be trying to kill probably rationalized killing the people they killed in a similar way.


As I've stated already. THE FOUNDERS OF OUR COUNTRY decided that we would not use Cruel or unethical punishment of citizens. It's the "grown up" way to make sure those people never do what they did agian. Treating them with more respect then they treated others. If you don't agree with that then, IMO, you're no better then them. You feel as though it's ok to kill people as long as YOU, not a group of peers, can justify they did something "Bad".
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Old February 16th, 2011, 07:44 AM   #50
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So you probably think if you go kill all the bad guys you shouldn't be sentenced to death right? Because you're doing exactly what they did. Kill people with out a trial. But somehow it's ok for you to because "you're doing it in the name of justice/revenge". I'm sure the murders you would be trying to kill probably rationalized killing the people they killed in a similar way.
I never said these people shouldnt get a trial. The people I amtalking about have had their day in court. I would guess some of them have had multiple days in court. They didnt get on death row because they ran a red light and a cop having a bad day got them.

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As I've stated already. THE FOUNDERS OF OUR COUNTRY decided that we would not use Cruel or unethical punishment of citizens. It's the "grown up" way to make sure those people never do what they did agian. Treating them with more respect then they treated others. If you don't agree with that then, IMO, you're no better then them. You feel as though it's ok to kill people as long as YOU, not a group of peers, can justify they did something "Bad".
1. So you are saying we have to totally agree with the founding fathers on everything? Do you really think they could have imagined some of the sick shit people do now?

2. You think I am no better than them? Thats fine. Thats your opinion. I think people that are soft on killers and rapists are pussies, but thats just my opinion.

3. Again I never said to take away their trials. My statement was about the carrying out of a just punishment after they have been placed on DEATH ROW.
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Old February 16th, 2011, 08:17 AM   #51
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I never said they didn't need punishment. You also missed the point. I was saying that by thinking "They should be *insert brutal, cruel punishment here* instead of just killed" You're not really much better then them. The only difference being that you want your government to do it instead of you doing it.




:
words, you are trying to put them in my mouth.

If you kill a person, I don't care what your motive, it is against the LAW you have broken the LAW, your rights are GONE and I personally do not give two shits less what your excuse, reason, etc. If you are convicted of murder and consequently sentenced to death I don't give a shit how you are put to death and if it inflicts pain on you. Why the hell should your death be humane when you killed another human being by your own choice, actions, etc. That person didn't get to choose how they were killed.

I typically think you make decent points, but you are a douche on this subject.
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Old February 16th, 2011, 08:22 AM   #52
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I never said these people shouldnt get a trial. The people I amtalking about have had their day in court. I would guess some of them have had multiple days in court. They didnt get on death row because they ran a red light and a cop having a bad day got them.
So you don't think that the punishment is enough? Or not Painful enough? basically. I can understand that, I just don't agree with it.

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1. So you are saying we have to totally agree with the founding fathers on everything? Do you really think they could have imagined some of the sick shit people do now?

2. You think I am no better than them? Thats fine. Thats your opinion. I think people that are soft on killers and rapists are pussies, but thats just my opinion.

3. Again I never said to take away their trials. My statement was about the carrying out of a just punishment after they have been placed on DEATH ROW.
1. We don't have to agree with them but that's what is in our Countries documents. Those documents are used by the judges to make rulings. Those rulings are supposedly the will of the people. I would hope that the Founding fathers wouldn't have thought it would get this bad but, then agian, they also thought we didn't let what people do to us effect how we treated them.

2. In the fact that you're willing to kill people "in the name of justice" and I had assumed that you were talking about doing it with no trials, then yes. I'm not soft on Criminals. I just don't think ANYBODY deserves to die a horrible death. Weather they did it to someone else or not. Ryebread spelled it out pretty well that the people that end up on death row probably don't really care if they die or not. It's not a Deterent if they end up there. Making it more painful wouldn't make them any less wanting to commit a crime.

3. Revengeful killing is not Just. It's that simple. Inmates on death row are not killed out of revenge but because they are being punished. That punishment is death, usually by lethal injection. There is no 'Degree" in offences once they decide to off you. If you speed 45MPh over the speed limit compared to 10, you get a more severe fine. That's not the case here.
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Old February 16th, 2011, 08:36 AM   #53
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So you don't think that the punishment is enough? Or not Painful enough? basically. I can understand that, I just don't agree with it.
Yes. Thats where we differ but thats fine. It would be a boring world if we were all the same.

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1. We don't have to agree with them but that's what is in our Countries documents. Those documents are used by the judges to make rulings. Those rulings are supposedly the will of the people. I would hope that the Founding fathers wouldn't have thought it would get this bad but, then agian, they also thought we didn't let what people do to us effect how we treated them.

2. In the fact that you're willing to kill people "in the name of justice" and I had assumed that you were talking about doing it with no trials, then yes. I'm not soft on Criminals. I just don't think ANYBODY deserves to die a horrible death. Weather they did it to someone else or not. Ryebread spelled it out pretty well that the people that end up on death row probably don't really care if they die or not. It's not a Deterent if they end up there. Making it more painful wouldn't make them any less wanting to commit a crime.

3. Revengeful killing is not Just. It's that simple. Inmates on death row are not killed out of revenge but because they are being punished. That punishment is death, usually by lethal injection. There is no 'Degree" in offences once they decide to off you. If you speed 45MPh over the speed limit compared to 10, you get a more severe fine. That's not the case here.
1. We cant really know what they were thinking when they laid down a set of rules for us to follow. We do change those rules when we see a need to. It isnt an absolute.

2. YOU dont think they deserves to die a horrible death. Some people do. Again its fine to have different opinions. Even if yours is wrong

We dont know if its would be a deternt to those that have yet to commit a crime. If boiling someone to death in a bull would stop 10 people from becoming murders I say it is worth it. You dont? Who do you think those potential victims would agree with? I think the right of good people to live thier lives without being abused/killed trumps the "right" of the inmate to die in a humane method.

3. Just because that is how it currently is does NOT mean it is the way it should be.
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Old February 16th, 2011, 09:33 AM   #54
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It is fine by me and I would suspect many others. We are way too soft on these assholes. That is why they have no fear. If they knew they would be boiled to death inside a bronze bull they might think twice about doing some off these things.
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Justice or revenge, it does not matter to me what you call it. It's what they deserve for what they did. Whats wrong with revenge?

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Great job SWAT.
Exactly...

Our system is too fucking soft....

Give some real punishment......and they would think twice...

But hell....they get a deluxe apartment and 3 meals, an education, a gym, cable, and all the luxuries they never had!....IF they even go to jail or get convicted!!

Some asshole has a hostage at gun point...shoot that prick if you can.

Some asshole rapes a little girl.......have that asshole raped by a dirty tree branch with a lot of thorns until he bleeds out his ass to death. And put it on pay per view, so the proceeds can help other victims.


Burn these fuckers......let them bleed out slow and painfull. Infect the wounds.....let them get beat to fucking death...

Sum bitches would think twice before committing these crimes....



....or be the fucked up sissy's that we are and hold them for 20 years and give them a trial......a trial?......please people....

rape, kidnapping, murder deserves death......quickly after the event.....not "maybe" in 20 years

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Old February 16th, 2011, 09:42 AM   #55
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Exactly...

Our system is too fucking soft....

Give some real punishment......and they would think twice...

But hell....they get a deluxe apartment and 3 meals, an education, a gym, cable, and all the luxuries they never had!....IF they even go to jail or get convicted!!

Some asshole has a hostage at gun point...shoot that prick if you can.

Some asshole rapes a little girl.......have that asshole raped by a dirty tree branch with a lot of thorns until he bleeds out his ass to death. And put it on pay per view, so the proceeds can help other victims.


Burn these fuckers......let them bleed out slow and painfull. Infect the wounds.....let them get beat to fucking death...

Sum bitches would think twice before committing these crimes....



....or be the fucked up sissy's that we are and hold them for 20 years and give them a trial......a trial?......please people....

rape, kidnapping, murder deserves death......quickly after the event.....not "maybe" in 20 years

I think I like you
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Old February 16th, 2011, 09:44 AM   #56
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Exactly...

Our system is too fucking soft....

Give some real punishment......and they would think twice...

But hell....they get a deluxe apartment and 3 meals, an education, a gym, cable, and all the luxuries they never had!....IF they even go to jail or get convicted!!

Some asshole has a hostage at gun point...shoot that prick if you can.

Some asshole rapes a little girl.......have that asshole raped by a dirty tree branch with a lot of thorns until he bleeds out his ass to death. And put it on pay per view, so the proceeds can help other victims.

Burn these fuckers......let them bleed out slow and painfull. Infect the wounds.....let them get beat to fucking death...

Sum bitches would think twice before committing these crimes....

....or be the fucked up sissy's that we are and hold them for 20 years and give them a trial......a trial?......please people....

rape, kidnapping, murder deserves death......quickly after the event.....not "maybe" in 20 years

Tell me how you really feel.
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Old February 16th, 2011, 09:49 AM   #57
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I think I like you


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Tell me how you really feel.

.....oh.....and snipers should patrol the borders.....

Signs that cleary say your head will be split open with a .50 cal bullet if you come into this country illegally....




...or be the pussy's we are .....and round them up......slap their hand......and take them back...




We spend so much money and time, with the best weapons in the world....trying to fix other countrys that are fucking useless..


....and sadly, forget about our own country, and let it become the worlds joke

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Old February 16th, 2011, 10:12 AM   #58
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Default Hmmmmmmmm

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Originally Posted by C.K. View Post
and a personal favorie The Brazen Bull.
I remember watching this......it's so what we need.




The horror and panic, even before the fire, would be a perfect death for these pricks.


The guy has some other torture videos from that same show....

All great ideas

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Old February 16th, 2011, 10:14 AM   #59
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.....oh.....and snipers should patrol the borders.....

Signs that cleary say your head will be split open with a .50 cal bullet if you come into this country illegally....




...or be the pussy's we are .....and round them up......slap their hand......and take them back...




We spend so much money and time, with the best weapons in the world....trying to fix other countrys that are fucking useless..


....and sadly, forget about our own country, and let it become the worlds joke

Are you single?
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Old February 16th, 2011, 10:18 AM   #60
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Are you single?
Last time I saw him, he had a "lady friend" with him.
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