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Old February 7th, 2011, 09:01 AM   #1
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Default Are we as Americans being Brainwashed?

This video show that we are and we are 3/4's of the way there. We are in a crisis in this country just as it shows here.

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Old February 10th, 2011, 10:39 AM   #2
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IMHO, Religion got the drop on the whole brainwashing thing.
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Old February 10th, 2011, 10:40 AM   #3
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Obama will lead the way to recovery
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Old February 10th, 2011, 03:19 PM   #4
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Obama will lead the way to recovery
Its when he says that everything is normal. Then we need to be concerned.
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Old February 10th, 2011, 03:22 PM   #5
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IMHO, Religion got the drop on the whole brainwashing thing.
Really? You think so?
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Old February 10th, 2011, 07:58 PM   #6
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Old February 11th, 2011, 10:08 AM   #7
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Really? You think so?
Absolutely.

But it isn't necessarily a bad thing - in religion's case.
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Old February 11th, 2011, 11:12 AM   #8
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Let me make sure I understand you.

The argument is that an organized entity (government) is actively pushing our nation through four stages of "ideological Subversion".

stage 1: Demoralization
stage 2: Destabilization
stage 3: Crisis
stage 4: Normalization

...and based on this we are in stage 3, Crisis?

...and if I understand this correctly, the outline described by this soviet dissident with a 25+ year minimum timeline, is actively being carried out by our current government?

...and we're in stage 3?

Just want to make sure I’m following you.
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Old February 11th, 2011, 02:17 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by srlbotanical View Post
Let me make sure I understand you.

The argument is that an organized entity (government) is actively pushing our nation through four stages of "ideological Subversion".

stage 1: Demoralization
stage 2: Destabilization
stage 3: Crisis
stage 4: Normalization

...and based on this we are in stage 3, Crisis?

...and if I understand this correctly, the outline described by this soviet dissident with a 25+ year minimum timeline, is actively being carried out by our current government?

...and we're in stage 3?

Just want to make sure Iím following you.
From what our society has experienced as a whole in the past 20 or so years, yes.
The demoralization, we can see that. The destablization of our markets, housing and financial. And now as things are as in crisis mode. Whats next?
When things settle down, what will be normal? Bigger and more controlling government, the gap between the rich and poor growing and the disappearing of the middleclass(you and me).
He does make some good points and seems we are on that path.
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Old February 11th, 2011, 02:19 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by ScOoTeR View Post
Absolutely.

But it isn't necessarily a bad thing - in religion's case.
Maybe it is a more of showing truth and giving choices wether to accept or not. So we still have freewill. So it's a good thing like you said.
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Old February 12th, 2011, 05:27 AM   #11
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Maybe it is a more of showing truth and giving choices wether to accept or not. So we still have freewill. So it's a good thing like you said.
Well, think a bit more broad; i.e. What most people accept as Christianity vs. Muslim Fundamentalism.
While I would argue that Christianity has been used to brainwash many, I believe it does support the "greater good" of the world and of the follower - it really can't compete with what Allah is able to fill some people's with.

But if you think about it - FAITH is an incredible tool available to those who would manipulate. IMHO, 2000-some years ago, "modern" civilizations were becoming more the norm. With civilization comes population, and within that population comes vast diversity. Basically - you have from Jesus Christ at the "top" of the moral / love ladder all the way down to organized crime and murder. Rulers needed a practical way to control this population and realized that they could NOT police 100% of the population 100% of the time.

Enter an Omnipotent being that can accept you into "Utopia" for following a set of rules, or cast you into a flaming pit for all eternity for breaking them. Pretty powerful stuff if you can twist faith into it. Nobody has seen nor heard this God speak, however, there are STORIES of common men who, through perserverence, sacrifice and faith - have talked to God and reaped their reward. All you have to do is live by the 10 commandments set forth by God, and you would be allowed entrance to Heaven.

It tugged at peoples' desire to be something more and become more than animals. Life mostly sucked, and the promise of an afterlife where everything was perfect and you were never beat, raped, hungry, cold, hot, persecuted, et al seemed pretty good to most people.
--- And since God was all-seeing and all-knowing, civic leaders were able to control a large part of their populace by proxy.---


Now, don't get me wrong - I still cannot prove or disprove God - I am just offering my take on the people that used religion to exploit / brainwash people for their own benefit.
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Old February 12th, 2011, 06:40 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by ScOoTeR View Post
Well, think a bit more broad; i.e. What most people accept as Christianity vs. Muslim Fundamentalism.
While I would argue that Christianity has been used to brainwash many, I believe it does support the "greater good" of the world and of the follower - it really can't compete with what Allah is able to fill some people's with.

But if you think about it - FAITH is an incredible tool available to those who would manipulate. IMHO, 2000-some years ago, "modern" civilizations were becoming more the norm. With civilization comes population, and within that population comes vast diversity. Basically - you have from Jesus Christ at the "top" of the moral / love ladder all the way down to organized crime and murder. Rulers needed a practical way to control this population and realized that they could NOT police 100% of the population 100% of the time.

Enter an Omnipotent being that can accept you into "Utopia" for following a set of rules, or cast you into a flaming pit for all eternity for breaking them. Pretty powerful stuff if you can twist faith into it. Nobody has seen nor heard this God speak, however, there are STORIES of common men who, through perserverence, sacrifice and faith - have talked to God and reaped their reward. All you have to do is live by the 10 commandments set forth by God, and you would be allowed entrance to Heaven.

It tugged at peoples' desire to be something more and become more than animals. Life mostly sucked, and the promise of an afterlife where everything was perfect and you were never beat, raped, hungry, cold, hot, persecuted, et al seemed pretty good to most people.
--- And since God was all-seeing and all-knowing, civic leaders were able to control a large part of their populace by proxy.---


Now, don't get me wrong - I still cannot prove or disprove God - I am just offering my take on the people that used religion to exploit / brainwash people for their own benefit.

So you think your a animal?? What do you think will happen to your once your dead.. you think thats just "the end"? Come on.. what your saying doesnt make sense. It we have a accomplished so much then how could this be all there is? Im a christian, and yea i have.questioned my own faith. Its hard to believe in something you cant see, touch, or hear. But i would rather believe and trust in god and believe im going to a better place once my times up, then to live my entire life thinking im going to turn to dirt wheni die and everything will just be over! When your parentd or borther or sister die, are you just going to think they are dead, done, and finished with life? If so..you must have a pretty sad life man.

Ps. Disrgard typing errors.. this phone is a pain to type with.
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Old February 12th, 2011, 09:45 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by ScOoTeR View Post
Well, think a bit more broad; i.e. What most people accept as Christianity vs. Muslim Fundamentalism.
While I would argue that Christianity has been used to brainwash many, I believe it does support the "greater good" of the world and of the follower - it really can't compete with what Allah is able to fill some people's with.

But if you think about it - FAITH is an incredible tool available to those who would manipulate. IMHO, 2000-some years ago, "modern" civilizations were becoming more the norm. With civilization comes population, and within that population comes vast diversity. Basically - you have from Jesus Christ at the "top" of the moral / love ladder all the way down to organized crime and murder. Rulers needed a practical way to control this population and realized that they could NOT police 100% of the population 100% of the time.

Enter an Omnipotent being that can accept you into "Utopia" for following a set of rules, or cast you into a flaming pit for all eternity for breaking them. Pretty powerful stuff if you can twist faith into it. Nobody has seen nor heard this God speak, however, there are STORIES of common men who, through perserverence, sacrifice and faith - have talked to God and reaped their reward. All you have to do is live by the 10 commandments set forth by God, and you would be allowed entrance to Heaven.

It tugged at peoples' desire to be something more and become more than animals. Life mostly sucked, and the promise of an afterlife where everything was perfect and you were never beat, raped, hungry, cold, hot, persecuted, et al seemed pretty good to most people.
--- And since God was all-seeing and all-knowing, civic leaders were able to control a large part of their populace by proxy.---


Now, don't get me wrong - I still cannot prove or disprove God - I am just offering my take on the people that used religion to exploit / brainwash people for their own benefit.


From the begining I am sure the priests did use religion as a way to control the masses and gain wealth. The Romans did it without religion. They ran things the way they did out of fear and control or be killed.
Man manipulated religion to their benefit which is not what God intended it for.
Jesus Christ came to us as God in the flesh.
He lived among man and experienced what it is like to be human and to know what feelings we would have. Sadness, peace, joy, anger all the feelings we would have, He experienced alll those. I believe to be closer to us.
With that He made a way for us to have direct contact with Him. No more going through the middle man(the Priests).
We also have the choice to accept Him or deny Him. Free will.
Its not like being brainwashed or maybe it is.
When your born again you accept Christ to save you from sin and death, you put off the old self. I know, I am not the same person I was before accepting Christ. I used to cuss and swear and use God's name in vain all the time. That bad lanuage left me over night. It amazed me because that type of talk is a habit and it usually takes time to train yourself to stop. But this went away basically overnight. With the help of Christ nothing is impossible.
You transform your thinking and the way you look at things.
You do have the ten commandments but the two Jesus talks about that are the greatest are, love your God with all your heart and love your neibour as you love yourself.

If you are willing to change in your way of thinking is it being brainwashed?

Actually you talk about an "omnipotent Being", I think you mean
"Omnipresent Being". All seeing and all knowing God. He's everywhere.
It has more to do with Loving God, than a bunch of rules. Don't get me wrong there are rules.
But, If you truly love somebody them to follow some rules is not really a chore, you enjoy doing things for the one you love.
For instance, your wife. You love her and I'm sure you would do anything for her to please her.
Same goes with God, its kinda hard to explain but once you get past all the rules and do's and don't's it's no big deal.
Then to serve God is not a chore but a joy. Serving and working for the Creator of the Universe. Thats a pretty important job. I like it and knowing I will be rewarded for my efforts is awesome. And the benefits I receive are great. Here and in the after life.
I hope L4CX(Scott) has some input here because he really has a great way of explaining in his own words.
You bring up some great points and I believe he could answer them better then I did. He does have a way with words.
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Old February 12th, 2011, 09:52 AM   #14
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It's fun reading twisted logic.
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Old February 12th, 2011, 10:10 AM   #15
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It's fun reading twisted logic.
I guess it twisted coming from your side of the fence, but... if you come over here its not so twisted
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Old February 12th, 2011, 11:52 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by ScOoTeR View Post
Well, think a bit more broad; i.e. What most people accept as Christianity vs. Muslim Fundamentalism.
While I would argue that Christianity has been used to brainwash many, I believe it does support the "greater good" of the world and of the follower - it really can't compete with what Allah is able to fill some people's with.

But if you think about it - FAITH is an incredible tool available to those who would manipulate. IMHO, 2000-some years ago, "modern" civilizations were becoming more the norm. With civilization comes population, and within that population comes vast diversity. Basically - you have from Jesus Christ at the "top" of the moral / love ladder all the way down to organized crime and murder. Rulers needed a practical way to control this population and realized that they could NOT police 100% of the population 100% of the time.

Enter an Omnipotent being that can accept you into "Utopia" for following a set of rules, or cast you into a flaming pit for all eternity for breaking them. Pretty powerful stuff if you can twist faith into it. Nobody has seen nor heard this God speak, however, there are STORIES of common men who, through perserverence, sacrifice and faith - have talked to God and reaped their reward. All you have to do is live by the 10 commandments set forth by God, and you would be allowed entrance to Heaven.
That's not the Gospel I preach. . IF God were about rules he wouldn't have needed to do the "Christ stunt" he already had rules in place that determined if you went to hell or not. He also didn't just enter when things got civilized. He was around well before that.

Quote:
It tugged at peoples' desire to be something more and become more than animals. Life mostly sucked, and the promise of an afterlife where everything was perfect and you were never beat, raped, hungry, cold, hot, persecuted, et al seemed pretty good to most people.
--- And since God was all-seeing and all-knowing, civic leaders were able to control a large part of their populace by proxy.---

Now, don't get me wrong - I still cannot prove or disprove God - I am just offering my take on the people that used religion to exploit / brainwash people for their own benefit.
So here is a thought. If you want to make this religion "popular" among the masses why would you choose the story line they did?
A women is responsible for bringing the savior of the world into the world - Back then, Women were property. No suffrage, no women rights, women were property. Men thought they were a lesser life form and "the officals" decided to use one to bring in the savoir of the world?

- If you want to control people then why do it with love and Acceptance? Jesus Taught us to love one another above all else except loving God. Not to Judge, ETC. If I'm trying to control a group of people this is the last things I want to do. I want to be able to have strict guidlines.

- Why a Jewish Carpenter? A peasant. Really. You expected people of higher classes to want to follow a peasant? That makes sense. .

Just a few thoughts I have about the subject. I'm not totally disagreeing with you. I think the Jewish religion around Jesus's time was used to control people. I think that alot of Christianity today (not then) is used to control people. The Roman Catholic church was corrupted (and still is IMO) and was used to kill thousands of people "in the name of the church". It can be used to control people, but I don't think that's the reasoning behind the start of Christianity.
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Old February 12th, 2011, 11:53 AM   #17
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what do you get when a bunch of christians post in a thread about brainwashing? Irony.
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Old February 12th, 2011, 12:19 PM   #18
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This has little to do with religion, and all to do with education in this country.
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Old February 12th, 2011, 01:14 PM   #19
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what do you get when a bunch of christians post in a thread about brainwashing? Irony.
Hey Steveo. How can we avoid being brainwashed just like you?

Or are you making a false statement saying that JUST christians are brainwashed? Because I'm pretty sure we all are in some form or another.

Either way, Jesus still loves you.

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This has little to do with religion, and all to do with education in this country.
X2.
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Old February 14th, 2011, 07:19 AM   #20
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I'm just giving my opinion here - I am not trying to pee in your holy water.

In my lifetime, I have come to know man far more than I know God. I have seen man repeatedly put himself and his greed in front of the needs of others. I know man will do what they can to get ahead, and I see religion as a great tool of manipulation. If you notice, I only gave further proof of my initial comment to only back up my view and clarify that I do not think religion is invalid or false.

I certainly was expecting anyone to come to the defense of Christianity, since I wasn't picking on the religion itself - only how MEN - could have found it a great tool for control.
Heck, it is still a great tool for control in the united states, again, for corrupt people - not the fault of religion. Control such as donations to televangelists, some religious leaders giving their followers suggestions of who to vote for.

And what better form to brainwash someone than religion?
  1. Identify God
  2. Identify God's rewards and punishments
  3. Identify God's rules
  4. Identify God's enemy (Satan)
  5. Identify faith and explain it's importance in accepting God.
  6. Identify opponents as a tool of Satan
  7. Profit

Also - to address AJ:

AJ, it is my practice and reasoning that when someone dies that I know, whatever they believe will happen to them in the "afterlife" is what will happen to them. You seem to think that when I say I do not have faith, that I automatically believe ALL religion to be false.

There is nothing further from the truth. Because I choose not to believe does not take anything away from someone with faith. When someone I love dies, if they were Christian (and EVERYBODY in my extended family, except my father is), I don't know what happens to their soul, but I certainly would like God and Heaven to be real and know if it exists, my dearly departed will be happy there.

See, I cannot say that those things do NOT exist, because I have not seen them nor do I have faith. One think I'm POSITIVE of - that I'm NOT God - anything else requires faith I do not have.

But remember, this wasn't meant as a dig at Christianity, which I feel you may have come here to defend unnecessarily. It was an example of how BAD MEN use religion, past and present, to brainwash people.
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